K-1 versus CR-1

[AZSUN 2]

So why K-1 versus CR-1? After reading post after post I have noticed most couples are electing the K-1 visa instead of the CR-1. I am just curious why people are not getting married and then doing the CR-1. Is it as people say........using it as a test drive and why? I guess for us personally it was we are committed, loved each other and knew that we wanted to be together for life. We didn't care where we lived. It seems to me that it has always been important to women that their family was included in such a special day and this was one reason we decided to get married in Ukraine. I knew this would make my wife very happy and I knew that this is how she wanted us to get married. Of course I did as well A little background.....we did meet online and spent a minimum of 5 hours online together as well as phone and text messages every day. I visited after 3 months and one other time before we were married. We have been together for 2 years now and still going thru the visa process since there was a delay in her international passport. I have no solid opinion on this but was curious why people are making this decision. I am sure this topic has been discussed many times. Are people moving to fast and making decisions on passion or newness? Or is it you found the love of your life? Maybe some are putting the cart before the horse? I thought it would be a great topic to explore and see how others feel and think.

[visaveteran 1]

So why K-1 versus CR-1? After reading post after post I have noticed most couples are electing the K-1 visa instead of the CR-1. I am just curious why people are not getting married and then doing the CR-1. Is it as people say........using it as a test drive and why? I guess for us personally it was we are committed, loved each other and knew that we wanted to be together for life. We didn't care where we lived. It seems to me that it has always been important to women that their family was included in such a special day and this was one reason we decided to get married in Ukraine. I knew this would make my wife very happy and I knew that this is how she wanted us to get married. Of course I did as well A little background.....we did meet online and spent a minimum of 5 hours online together as well as phone and text messages every day. I visited after 3 months and one other time before we were married. We have been together for 2 years now and still going thru the visa process since there was a delay in her international passport. I have no solid opinion on this but was curious why people are making this decision. I am sure this topic has been discussed many times. Are people moving to fast and making decisions on passion or newness? Or is it you found the love of your life? Maybe some are putting the cart before the horse? I thought it would be a great topic to explore and see how others feel and think.

[visaveteran 1]

Sorry for the blank post. The VJ system often acts crazy when I try to post. I attempted to use the "edit" facility but it wouldn't let me.

I'll repost later.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Just speaking of specifics and not any personal preference which really has no place in the process ,except for personal reasons which wouldn't apply to you.

The K-1 is faster to get your fiancee HERE in the states. Alla was HERE 6 months after filing and could have been here in 4 months but for our own personal considerations. That's the good news. Bad news? It is a little more expensive and when they arrive they cannot work and cannot leave the country until you get married and adjust status. (green card) That means another 4-6 months. THOSE things were not an issue for us, so we chose the K-1 route.

IF it is important to you that she be able to work right away and/or be able to travel outside the country right away, then the CR-1 is better for you. It will take longer to process and you have to get married there (or somewhere) first. So the whole process can take quite a bit longer.

For example, if you have already met in person you could file a K-1 today. If you go the CR-1 route you have to meet somewhere and get married and then file. How long would that take? Then the CR-1 will take 8-10 months to process. BUT when she arrives she gets a green card and can travel right away.

The total elapsed time from filing of the petition to the green card in hand is about the same if you do not delay things with the K-1.

Some people will say the K-1 gives you a 90 day "trial period". This is not technically true but in practice it can be. I do not recommend it and we got married 8 days after Alla arrived. The K-1 is not a "trial visa" or a "shack up" visa. It is also not a work visa.

You need to assess what is important for you and choose accordingly.

[1HappyGuy 45]

The quick answer is time to process. The K-1 is generally faster than any other method. However, the 90 day period can be called a cooling off period too. Many people meet under really nice circumstances, while on vacation. Everything can be fireworks together and passion too. After the process of waiting under the K-1 method, the passion and fire is usually there upon arrival. However, after settling in, the reality of life in a new part of the world can be quite a shock. Sometimes the reunion is not always great and the parties can find it unbearable. The 90 day period allows both to evaluate their new situation and decide if this is really what they want.

What it really boils down to, is how much time you have spent together. If you have the luxury of being able to be with your SO for long periods in their country and everything still seems okay, then it will probably work. For some, the fire and passion are so much that the thought of being apart for an extended period is unthinkable. A lot of people can not spend extended time in another country, thus the K-1 is more popular. The success of either is up to the individuals.

[visaveteran 1]

The quick answer is time to process. The K-1 is generally faster than any other method. However, the 90 day period can be called a cooling off period too. Many people meet under really nice circumstances, while on vacation. Everything can be fireworks together and passion too. After the process of waiting under the K-1 method, the passion and fire is usually there upon arrival. However, after settling in, the reality of life in a new part of the world can be quite a shock. Sometimes the reunion is not always great and the parties can find it unbearable. The 90 day period allows both to evaluate their new situation and decide if this is really what they want.

What it really boils down to, is how much time you have spent together. If you have the luxury of being able to be with your SO for long periods in their country and everything still seems okay, then it will probably work. For some, the fire and passion are so much that the thought of being apart for an extended period is unthinkable. A lot of people can not spend extended time in another country, thus the K-1 is more popular. The success of either is up to the individuals.

From my experience and observations, I'd say the 90 day "cooling off" period is of little help and maybe can even be a problem. First, it's usually more like a 60 or 70 day period as most couples don't wait until the last few weeks to decide about getting married. And getting married does require advance planning. Many K-1 folks get married in a matter of weeks, not months, after the arrival of the fiancee.

Second, if the fiancee has an escape route, she might find the US so mind-boggling at first that she books back home. Had she already been married, she'd be more motivated to adapt to her new home. I remember the story of one Russian woman who never made it out of the US airport terminal.

Getting married in your wife's home country is a great gift to her and allows her friends and family to have their final moment before their loved one leaves the home country. They may not see them again for years, if ever. Also, when you marry your fiancee BEFORE she has to leave everything behind (job, flat,etc.), you have assured her you will not change your mind and send her home after 90 days of "cooling off."

As to the K-1 versus the CR-1, without question the CR-1 is the superior visa. First, it is a real immigration visa and when the wife/husband arrives in the US they get a green card, can immediately work and can travel outside the USA. The K-1 is not really an immigration visa...it's simply a visa to visit the US for only 90 days. As far as the time differences, the K-1 is a month or two quicker at best. Not a big difference.

[SMR 368]

From my experience and observations, I'd say the 90 day "cooling off" period is of little help and maybe can even be a problem. First, it's usually more like a 60 or 70 day period as most couples don't wait until the last few weeks to decide about getting married. And getting married does require advance planning. Many K-1 folks get married in a matter of weeks, not months, after the arrival of the fiancee.

Second, if the fiancee has an escape route, she might find the US so mind-boggling at first that she books back home. Had she already been married, she'd be more motivated to adapt to her new home. I remember the story of one Russian woman who never made it out of the US airport terminal.

Getting married in your wife's home country is a great gift to her and allows her friends and family to have their final moment before their loved one leaves the home country. They may not see them again for years, if ever. Also, when you marry your fiancee BEFORE she has to leave everything behind (job, flat,etc.), you have assured her you will not change your mind and send her home after 90 days of "cooling off."

As to the K-1 versus the CR-1, without question the CR-1 is the superior visa. First, it is a real immigration visa and when the wife/husband arrives in the US they get a green card, can immediately work and can travel outside the USA. The K-1 is not really an immigration visa...it's simply a visa to visit the US for only 90 days. As far as the time differences, the K-1 is a month or two quicker at best. Not a big difference.

You make a lot of good points but every case is different.

In terms of timing, I think your 1-2 month estimate is misleading. In my experience, CR-1 and K-1(+AOS) have similar processing times if you are counting time from initial filing to receiving the Green Card. For us, processing time wasn't the best way to measure time. We measured time from engagement to living together in the US (POE).

If having a really nice wedding is a priority you need some pre-wedding planning time. If you want to have a wedding dress made, for instance, a lot of wedding dress stores see 3 months as a minimum for a turnaround. If you want to get all the family there, you're talking about visas and planning time. If you want to get married in Russia, there are other issues like a fiance visa to Russia and ZAGC reservations that come up and take some time to resolve. CR-1 means that you have to have wedding planning in series with visa processing time (since you can't file until after the wedding) while K-1 allows you to do it in parallel. Our estimate for wedding planning time was a 3-month minimum.

Second, K-1 allows you to enter and then wait for the GC. Both CR-1 and K-1 are about 9-10 months on average from filing to green card. But K-1 lets you enter after about 6 months and wait the remaining time together in the US while CR-1 means you wait the full 9-10 months in separate countries (unless the non-USC can maintain a B visa or the USC can spend a lot of time in the foreign country. Both of these factors are important and can change the estimate). CR-1 processing time means you are spending an extra 3 or so months in separate countries.

Our situation was we made the decision right after we got engaged. We based it on trying to minimize the time before we could be living together as husband and wife. Because of delay in filing CR-1 due to wedding planning time and a longer CR-1 time to POE, we estimated that CR-1 would mean an extra 6+ months living apart. Like anything in immigration, estimates are just that, but that's how we made the decision.

[visaveteran 1]

You make a lot of good points but every case is different.

In terms of timing, I think your 1-2 month estimate is misleading. In my experience, CR-1 and K-1(+AOS) have similar processing times if you are counting time from initial filing to receiving the Green Card. For us, processing time wasn't the best way to measure time. We measured time from engagement to living together in the US (POE).

If having a really nice wedding is a priority you need some pre-wedding planning time. If you want to have a wedding dress made, for instance, a lot of wedding dress stores see 3 months as a minimum for a turnaround. If you want to get all the family there, you're talking about visas and planning time. If you want to get married in Russia, there are other issues like a fiance visa to Russia and ZAGC reservations that come up and take some time to resolve. CR-1 means that you have to have wedding planning in series with visa processing time (since you can't file until after the wedding) while K-1 allows you to do it in parallel. Our estimate for wedding planning time was a 3-month minimum.

Second, K-1 allows you to enter and then wait for the GC. Both CR-1 and K-1 are about 9-10 months on average from filing to green card. But K-1 lets you enter after about 6 months and wait the remaining time together in the US while CR-1 means you wait the full 9-10 months in separate countries (unless the non-USC can maintain a B visa or the USC can spend a lot of time in the foreign country. Both of these factors are important and can change the estimate). CR-1 processing time means you are spending an extra 3 or so months in separate countries.

Our situation was we made the decision right after we got engaged. We based it on trying to minimize the time before we could be living together as husband and wife. Because of delay in filing CR-1 due to wedding planning time and a longer CR-1 time to POE, we estimated that CR-1 would mean an extra 6+ months living apart. Like anything in immigration, estimates are just that, but that's how we made the decision.

I will speak from my own experience which took place during the infamous USCIS price increase debacle a couple years ago. From filing to my wife's arrival in the US was 8 months. She had her green card in less than two weeks after arriving (and a SS card soon after that)...so a little over 8 months from filing to GC. You K-1 folks can compare your times with mine during a very slow processing time.

And we were done with the USCIS bureaucracy for almost 2 years! That in itself is worth a lot. The K-1 folks have to adjust status after marriage and do the whole paperwork-interview crappola soon after marriage to become legal residents. I'm pretty sure cost wise, K-1s are more expensive too, but not sure and too lazy to look. We just filed to remove conditions which is a pretty simple process...then she has her 10 year GC. Bye bye bureaucracy!

Getting married in Russia was quite easy and all of the paperwork can be done prior to the American fiancee ever arriving in Russia. The ZAGS office will usually (maybe for a bribe...not sure) accept copies of all the forms and documents...so you just bring the originals with you. My wife took care of all the translations. The only apparent obstacle is the Russian 30 day waiting period before marriage which is quickly handled by "fees" (bribes). I married my wife 4 days after arriving in Russia. I'm not sure what you mean by "fiancee visa" for Russia. I went over on a home stay visa...basically a tourist visa.

I really don't have any close family left so no one came to Russia for the wedding; but had I had family, they could all have gotten tourist visas to Russia; however, had we married in the US, barring some VERY good luck, none of her family could get visas to the US...much less afford to.

[SMR 368]

I will speak from my own experience which took place during the infamous USCIS price increase debacle a couple years ago. From filing to my wife's arrival in the US was 8 months. She had her green card in less than two weeks after arriving (and a SS card soon after that)...so a little over 8 months from filing to GC. You K-1 folks can compare your times with mine during a very slow processing time.

And we were done with the USCIS bureaucracy for almost 2 years! That in itself is worth a lot. The K-1 folks have to adjust status after marriage and do the whole paperwork-interview crappola soon after marriage to become legal residents. I'm pretty sure cost wise, K-1s are more expensive too, but not sure and too lazy to look. We just filed to remove conditions which is a pretty simple process...then she has her 10 year GC. Bye bye bureaucracy!

Like I said, all cases are different and I'm not trying to argue that K-1 is always better. However, in your eagerness to compare processing times, you keep ignoring the fact that while you planned your wedding and waited to file, K-1 filers are already waiting for NOA2.

Getting married in Russia was quite easy and all of the paperwork can be done prior to the American fiancee ever arriving in Russia. The ZAGS office will usually (maybe for a bribe...not sure) accept copies of all the forms and documents...so you just bring the originals with you. My wife took care of all the translations. The only apparent obstacle is the Russian 30 day waiting period before marriage which is quickly handled by "fees" (bribes). I married my wife 4 days after arriving in Russia. I'm not sure what you mean by "fiancee visa" for Russia. I went over on a home stay visa...basically a tourist visa.

Honestly, I'm not sure what a fiance(e) visa for Russia is either. I just remember that there was one. Possibly it's only for people immigrating to Russia after marriage. Like I said, I didn't go that route so I didn't get the details. Even if you married your wife 4 days after arriving in Russia, I'm pretty sure you didn't marry her 4 days after getting engaged. What I am talking about is that we literally sent off our K-1 visa petition a week after getting engaged. Had we gone CR-1, that time would have been much longer since we would need to get married first. If we wanted to plan a decent wedding, even if all the ZAGC etc. issues are easily dealt with through bribes like you say, I stand by my claim that planning a decent wedding takes probably 3 months of planning minimum. That means that K-1 is that much faster.

I really don't have any close family left so no one came to Russia for the wedding; but had I had family, they could all have gotten tourist visas to Russia; however, had we married in the US, barring some VERY good luck, none of her family could get visas to the US...much less afford to.

Well, I don't know about your wife's family and I know times have changed recently, but my wife's mother and brother got visas without any real trouble. The rest of her brothers probably could have gotten visas even more easily if they didn't have obligations that prevented them from coming (I say this on the basis that her brother that did come is the only brother who is single and without a job or apartment). Just to clarify, if the wedding had been in Russia, they very well might not have made it either since they are not in Russia.

Anyways, I understand the CR-1 is better in some cases. You're right that filing fees are about $400 less. But for us the K-1 was 6+ months faster and when that probably means more trips back and forth, $400 ends up being a bargain.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Like I said, all cases are different and I'm not trying to argue that K-1 is always better. However, in your eagerness to compare processing times, you keep ignoring the fact that while you planned your wedding and waited to file, K-1 filers are already waiting for NOA2.

Honestly, I'm not sure what a fiance(e) visa for Russia is either. I just remember that there was one. Possibly it's only for people immigrating to Russia after marriage. Like I said, I didn't go that route so I didn't get the details. Even if you married your wife 4 days after arriving in Russia, I'm pretty sure you didn't marry her 4 days after getting engaged. What I am talking about is that we literally sent off our K-1 visa petition a week after getting engaged. Had we gone CR-1, that time would have been much longer since we would need to get married first. If we wanted to plan a decent wedding, even if all the ZAGC etc. issues are easily dealt with through bribes like you say, I stand by my claim that planning a decent wedding takes probably 3 months of planning minimum. That means that K-1 is that much faster.

Well, I don't know about your wife's family and I know times have changed recently, but my wife's mother and brother got visas without any real trouble. The rest of her brothers probably could have gotten visas even more easily if they didn't have obligations that prevented them from coming (I say this on the basis that her brother that did come is the only brother who is single and without a job or apartment). Just to clarify, if the wedding had been in Russia, they very well might not have made it either since they are not in Russia.

Anyways, I understand the CR-1 is better in some cases. You're right that filing fees are about $400 less. But for us the K-1 was 6+ months faster and when that probably means more trips back and forth, $400 ends up being a bargain.

True. Alla and I were married on the first anniversary of meeting each other and could have been married sooner if we hadn't extended our time for 2 months+ because of personal considerations, her job, etc. We were married 8 days after she arrived. She had her green card in hand 10 months after filing the K-1 petition. In a time when processing was not particularly fast.

The issue is not, or should not, be timing. The issue should be what is best for the couple as a whole, there are good and bad things to each visa. We extended our visa interview one month because we could not attend the first one offered. Why? Because for us it was important I be there and I could not go at the time the first interview was offered. Alla did not arrive in the US until one month after her visa was issued. She had a job and did not submit her resignation until her visa was in hand. Then she had a month of committments to keep. She didn;t need to work when she arrived so that wasn;t an issue and she did not plan to return to Ukraine until the next summer, so waiting a few months for the green card was no big deal for us.

To each their own. The important thing is knowing the difference and choosing what is best for YOU, not what was best for ME or for Visa Veteran.

[visaveteran 1]

If the sole purpose is to be together quickly in physical space; your fiancee and you quickly decide to marry; and your fiancee and you both are willing to take a risk that during the 90 day period someone won't change their mind, then the K-1 is definitely the best choice. And, of course, if the only choice is to marry in the US, then the K-1 is the only option.

For me, personally, I think going a little slower on the front end is wisest and safest. I married my wife 5 months after meeting her and I was comfortable with that length of time for reflection and decision-making. I felt pretty darn certain the first time I met her, but I gave the decision more time to develop and strengthen. And we met a few additional times as well as the frequent phone calls and emails. So, when she finally arrived in the US, we were both pretty solid about the marriage and new life in the US. No whirlwind effect ever entered into our decision.

I personally know several men who've done the Fiancee Visa thing two and three times...so obviously that route to marriage sometimes has problems in getting to the finish line or with ultimately walking the talk, so to speak. I'm sure some of our own VJ RUB posters fall into that category. So, the quickness and ease of the K-1 is a double-edged sword.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If the sole purpose is to be together quickly in physical space; your fiancee and you quickly decide to marry; and your fiancee and you both are willing to take a risk that during the 90 day period someone won't change their mind, then the K-1 is definitely the best choice. And, of course, if the only choice is to marry in the US, then the K-1 is the only option.

For me, personally, I think going a little slower on the front end is wisest and safest. I married my wife 5 months after meeting her and I was comfortable with that length of time for reflection and decision-making. I felt pretty darn certain the first time I met her, but I gave the decision more time to develop and strengthen. And we met a few additional times as well as the frequent phone calls and emails. So, when she finally arrived in the US, we were both pretty solid about the marriage and new life in the US. No whirlwind effect ever entered into our decision.

I personally know several men who've done the Fiancee Visa thing two and three times...so obviously that route to marriage sometimes has problems in getting to the finish line or with ultimately walking the talk, so to speak. I'm sure some of our own VJ RUB posters fall into that category. So, the quickness and ease of the K-1 is a double-edged sword.

it is pretty obvious to adults that marriage, by whatever route, is a risk and a double edged sword. I sincerely doubt the visa chosen has much, if any difference, in the end result. Try as I may, I cannot imagine how the visa chsen makes any difference in the success of the marriage. How? I am married to a wonderful, beautiful woman that cares for me like I could never imagine, it is still one of the overwhelming things about her (and I have heard the same from other men with Ukrainian wives) The visa she arrived on simply has nothing to do with that. Nothing whatsoever. To me I cannot imagine it being more important than the airline she flew on to get here, how many stops the plane made or what I paid for the ticket. Does it matter that I bought a round trip ticket because it was cheaper? Did I curse the marriage? Incidentally the return trip was on day 90 (why not?) but I had no fear and we got married in 8 days. I do nopt consider the 90 day period for "cooling off" or any such thing and do not recommend people use it for that. It is best for this person you love to get them covered by insurance, get their benefits rolling, AOS filed, etc. It wasn;t long ago we read about a VJ member that had his fiancee come, and at day 70 they were still taking trips to Disneyland and she had to return to Ukraine because of medical emergency with her daughter (I still doubt that, actually, who rushes from the US to Ukraine for a personal medical emergency? It is UKRAINE...I suggest you don't get sick!) but if the story is true, this guy did nothing to protect his family's status....stupid.

I had a heart attack last December and the thought went through my mind...what if Alla had arrived Sept 11, 2009 instead of 2008, and we waited 90 days until December 9 and I had a heart attack on December 3???? Don't wait 90 days!

the key words are "For me personally" We are all adults and can make up our own minds. Adults sometimes make mistakes, but we still have the right to decide what we want "personally" It would be no more valid for me to say that the K-1 was better "for me personally" Many of the things you cite are simply not an issue for many people. That they are for you, or you think they should be for other people, simply doesn't make it so.

Another consideration is children if they are involved. If you choose a CR-1 visa the children MUST be UNDER AGE 18 when you marry in order to receive a CR-2 visa. With a K visa they need only be under age 21 when the visa is issued (and actually under 21 when the green card is issued) This is a matter of law, not personal preference. This was NOT a consideration for us, but it is for many people and at least one person I helped lately got married in Russia and now has discovered their child, age 19 when they were married, cannot get a CR-2 and basically will be "locked out" until his mother can be a citizen and file for a IR-1 for him. Getting married in Russia was a big mistake for them. So much for a "gift" for her

Many people seeking out MOBs skip over the ones with children. I have my own opinion of that, but it is my own opinion.

In another case I am helping out with the woman had a son that came on a K-2, they got married here when he was 17. He decided he did not want to stay and went back to Ukraine and did not adjust status. Now he decided he wants to come back, he is now age 19. No problem. They have filed an I-130. Because he was under age 18 when the parent relationship was established, the US considers him the "child" of the US citizen petitioner and the US citizen petitioner can petition him immediately.

Consider ALL your options, consider ALL your obligations, try to think down the road to what could happen and how your choice will affect it, then pay your nickel and take your chances!

Good luck

[AZSUN 2]

I think Gary and VisaVeteran make excellent points. They seem to be the same. When it came to marriage they were sure it was the woman that they wanted to spend the rest of their lives with. It was the same for me. I think marriage should be viewed the same and should not be different just because your potential wife is from a different country. I think to many times it is forgotten what marriage is when it comes to marrying someone overseas. It's rush rush rush. Whether you decide to do the k-1 visa or cr-1 visa. It should come down to spending the rest of your life with this person and you definetly know you can't live without them. Would you ask someone you met for the first time on a date to marry you? If so, then you know it is the woman you have always waited for in life. I really think a big part of this is how you are treated and how you treat them in the relationship. Being treated like you are the most special person in the world has much to do with building a strong relationship. I think the biggest thing I had to overcome was the money aspect. Women in general want to know that you would go to the ends of the world for them. Sure with our economy its very hard and things have changed. But from what I have noticed is that Eastern European women want a strong man. Doesn't mean you can't cry but they want to know that you are always there for them. If they have a bad day don't tell them your day was worse. Of course I think all women want this The biggest difference in a long distance relationship is trust and communication. Communication is much more difficult because often there is quite a bit of language barrier. I remember the first time I met my wife.....she did not know much english and I did not know much russian. But we had no problems communicating at all. Why? I read somewhere that communication involves body language, tone of voice and words spoken. I seem to remember that 7% of communication is actually words spoken. So you have to have patience and a good attitude. Everytime I am in Ukraine we tend to watch people on the first dates with a translator. It never fails but when we are in McDonalds we see this. My wife listens to the translator and I listen to the man. Talk about a cold date. And it never fails but the conversation is based around money. I remember at the airport in Odessa when I was leaving I saw a man with his girlfriend. She had 3 of her friends with her. It was not a romantic good bye. My wife heard what the girls were saying and the girl did not have any intentions of being with him at all. I sat next to him on the plane. He took out his laptop and loaded his wonderful photos of his vacation with her. He started to write a email and this man was very in love with this woman and saying wonderful things to her. I tried not to eaves drop but it was hard because he made it easy. I guess my point is that use your head and heart together. If it is meant to be then the both of you will know. Courting a woman should be no different than if she was next door.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I only witnessed that once, but I never went to McDonalds inm Ukraine, amybe I should more (NOT!) Anyway, it was as you described...45 year old man with "American" tattooed to his forehead with a beautiful early 20 something Ukrainian girl sitting at a table near us at a little outdoor cafe in Kiev. He is telling her how he will give her $XXX per month and that is all and that should be plenty. Alla was listening to this and her face was going from to to to I had to suggest we continue on our walk. Before she went over to the girl and... Suffice to say the conversation seemed to be ONLY about money.

[visaveteran 1]

For the newer posters on RUB, let me tell you about Gary. According to him, he married the smartest, most beautiful, most clever, most sophisticated, amazingly multi-talented, and most successful woman out of the Ukraine...possibly the world. She makes money, smiles for the professional cameras, cooks dinner and juggles, all at the same time. And he tells us these points again, and again, and again. He never seems to get tired bragging and boasting. (He also lives in the greatest state in the union (Vermont); has the smartest kids and probably the best house pets.)

Additionally, Gary extrapolates from his one experience with a Ukraine wife that ALL Ukrainian women are almost equally wonderful and perfect as potential wives and are far superior to Russian women, and possibly all women. I hope he deletes those Ukraine female scammers who've bilked men out of tens of thousands of dollars but, hey, no country is perfect. (Google Ukraine scam artists).

I'm not suggesting you take what he says with a grain of salt...I'm suggesting you may have to use the entire salt shaker.

OK, you've been warned.