Obama On VA Confederate History Month: Omission Of Slavery 'Unacceptable'

[ready4ONE 5,400]

If the shoe fits.. or are you still in denial?

Really? "I am rubber and your glue?" FAIL

[ready4ONE 5,400]

what you know of the civil war is what any whitewashed late 20th century teacher or writer would teach an indian immigrant. it is far from the truth. if you want to understand what really happened you need to read period histories and debates of the day. histories remained generally unbiased and accurate until the beginning of the 20th century.

period writers do not discuss slavery as a precipitant cause of the civil war. they discuss unbalanced taxation that economically disempowered the south, which was rapidly enriching in the first half of the 19th century. unreasonable export taxes on tobacco, cotton, sugar were levied, while the north's manufactured goods were allowed to be exported with little or no tariff. these taxes were passed between 1830 and 1855.

slavery was primarily for household servant use until the 1820's. slaves just weren't good for much else. tobacco growers had tried to use them, but tobacco work requires a quality assesment that can't be measured by the bushel, so had to be done by motivated workers.

when an inventor came up with a machine that could remove the seeds from cotton bloom in the 1820's many tobacco growers shifted from tobacco to cotton. clothing had generally been made of flax before, as cotton was too expensive for the common man to wear with the seeds being picked out by hand. most of the slaves in US were imported between 1820 and 1850, but by then slavery was already on it's way out. new cotton planting and picking machinery began to appear on the field by 1850 that was much more economical to use than slaves.

slavery did not become a significant factor until lincoln ran out of money to fund his army in early 1863. he knew the north was going to lose if he didn't round up some money fast, so he cut a deal to allow him to retain his army, which was serving on 90 day contracts in recognition of wages paid. at that time he began to receive donations from industrialists in the NE who viewed a freed slave population potential as ultra-cheap labour. the gettysburg address was written and given to acknowledge lincoln's debt to these industrialists.

learn before you write.

That was hilarious!

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Confederate Constitution

Sec. 9. (I) The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.

(2) Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or Territory not belonging to, this Confederacy.

(4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

Not exactly an ending of slavery voluntarily on the part of the South, just no more importing them.

[justashooter 430]

(4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

Not exactly an ending of slavery voluntarily on the part of the South, just no more importing them.

anti-slavery movements existed as early as the 1700's in many areas, including the USA.

as already stated, slavery was already becoming uneconomical, and was in decline in the south. the prohibition on importation of new slaves was given in consideration of their already rapidly falling value.

see Peals Popular Educator And Cyclopedia (1876) for further detailed example.

if the anti-slavery issue was so important to Lincoln, then why did it take him 3 years to get around to emancipating the slaves? timing is everything, friend. when in doubt, look at the timing, and follow the money trail.

Edited April 10, 2010 by justashooter

[alienlovechild 75]

slavery did not become a significant factor until lincoln ran out of money to fund his army in early 1863. he knew the north was going to lose if he didn't round up some money fast, so he cut a deal to allow him to retain his army, which was serving on 90 day contracts in recognition of wages paid. at that time he began to receive donations from industrialists in the NE who viewed a freed slave population potential as ultra-cheap labour. the gettysburg address was written and given to acknowledge lincoln's debt to these industrialists.

More to it than that as the North had plenty of cheap immigrant labor and few in the North wanted to have a massive influx of freed slaves up North. That didn't happen until decades later. Draft riots and the Union losing most of the early battles didn't help morale.

The Gettysburg Address was written to honor the troops who had turned the Confederates back at the largest battle ever fought in North America. It wasn't message to industrialists because it wasn't considered a good speech because it wasn't a long enough in those days; therefore, few people who heard it took note at the time.

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate...we can not consecrate...we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_Address

Nope. Nothing for the industrialists.

[Danno 1,228]

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

THis is a grand example of our habit of seeing history as we want it to be.

How many times have we heard or been tested on this famous Address made by Honest abe and how Easily I assumed he was "ahead of his time" when he spoke about "all men being equal."

But what was he referring to when he wrote those words... Blacks and Whites being equal?

.. or just the Founding Fathers version of "all men being equal"?

When one reads the Lincoln-douglas debates it's awful hard to believe that Lincoln believed the very things we are so often told and taught he believed... That Blacks were equal to whites.

He seems to be just as sure of Slavery being wrong, as he is that Blacks could never be the equal of Whites.

He also is certain these issues should not be decision of any government except the State Government

Read Licolns words and tell me what you conclude?

Lincoln:

While I was at the hotel to-day an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]---that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen to my knowledge a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. I recollect of but one distinguished instance that I ever heard of so frequently as to be entirely satisfied of its correctness---and that is the case of Judge Douglas' old friend Col. Richard M. Johnson. [Laughter.] I will also add to the remarks I have made, (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject,) that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.] I will add one further word, which is this, that I do not understand there is any place where an alteration of the social and political relations of the negro and the white man can be made except in the State Legislature---not in the Congress of the United States---and as I do not really apprehend the approach of any such thing myself, and as Judge Douglas seems to be in constant horror that some such danger is rapidly approaching, I propose as the best means to prevent it that the Judge be kept at home and placed in the State Legislature to fight the measure. [uproarious laughter and applause.] I do not propose dwelling longer at this time on this subject.

-----------------

My point being..... here we are today, twisting history to make heros out of some.. and devils out of others.. though their views on these issues were not all that far apart. and the facts hardly support it.

[justashooter 430]

More to it than that as the North had plenty of cheap immigrant labor and few in the North wanted to have a massive influx of freed slaves up North. That didn't happen until decades later. Draft riots and the Union losing most of the early battles didn't help morale.

The Gettysburg Address was written to honor the troops who had turned the Confederates back at the largest battle ever fought in North America.

synaptic failure on that one...

the emancipation proclamation is what i was talking about. it was issued in 2 drafts. the first draft was issued in late '62, and indicated that all slaves were declared free in states which did not return to the union. it was a poor attempt at blackmail, and an early appeasment to abolitionists which had begun to fund the war effort by then. the second proclamation, which most people are aware of, was issued in '63, and was a full commitment to the abilitionists. it "freed" slaves (in name only) in 10 named states that included those in the confederacy. it did not, incidentally, free slaves in the border states like maryland. that did not occur until after the war.

interestingly, lincoln had in 1861 offered the seceeding states a deal in which he would agree to federal legislation to guarantee the perpetuity of slavery in states below a certain lattitude if they would return to the union. this in accordance with his platform position as republican party candidate in the 1860 election which agreed that each state had the right to manage domestic issues within their borders, but acceding to the abolitionists that freedom was "the natural condition" of man.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

synaptic failure on that one...

the emancipation proclamation is what i was talking about. it was issued in 2 drafts. the first draft was issued in late '62, and indicated that all slaves were declared free in states which did not return to the union. it was a poor attempt at blackmail, and an early appeasment to abolitionists which had begun to fund the war effort by then. the second proclamation, which most people are aware of, was issued in '63, and was a full commitment to the abilitionists. it "freed" slaves (in name only) in 10 named states that included those in the confederacy. it did not, incidentally, free slaves in the border states like maryland. that did not occur until after the war.

interestingly, lincoln had in 1861 offered the seceeding states a deal in which he would agree to federal legislation to guarantee the perpetuity of slavery in states below a certain lattitude if they would return to the union. this in accordance with his platform position as republican party candidate in the 1860 election which agreed that each state had the right to manage domestic issues within their borders, but acceding to the abolitionists that freedom was "the natural condition" of man.

If you look at his early campaigning you could see that the republic plan was to slowly make slavery "extinct" over time. They felt if they could limit the slave states to what they were than over time abolitionism would win out.

An important factor for Lincoln at the beginning of the war were the border states as you mentioned. From his early writings he was afraid that he might lose all support and ultimately lose the border states all together if he allowed slavery to end.

In your earlier post you are correct regarding the Tarrifs. There was also the issue of improvements ie. the North wanted to use Federal funds for infrastructures like roads etc. The South did not.

Make no mistake, Lincoln did not see blacks as being equal to whites...but was not pro slavery.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Sousuke

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

what you know of the civil war is what any whitewashed late 20th century teacher or writer would teach an indian immigrant.

I'm not an immigrant, dipshit.

[Danno 1,228]

synaptic failure on that one...

the emancipation proclamation is what i was talking about. it was issued in 2 drafts. the first draft was issued in late '62, and indicated that all slaves were declared free in states which did not return to the union. it was a poor attempt at blackmail, and an early appeasment to abolitionists which had begun to fund the war effort by then. the second proclamation, which most people are aware of, was issued in '63, and was a full commitment to the abilitionists. it "freed" slaves (in name only) in 10 named states that included those in the confederacy. it did not, incidentally, free slaves in the border states like maryland. that did not occur until after the war.

interestingly, lincoln had in 1861 offered the seceeding states a deal in which he would agree to federal legislation to guarantee the perpetuity of slavery in states below a certain lattitude if they would return to the union. this in accordance with his platform position as republican party candidate in the 1860 election which agreed that each state had the right to manage domestic issues within their borders, but acceding to the abolitionists that freedom was "the natural condition" of man.

IF there really was such a deal offered it's a shame the South did not take it. Natural events as well as emerging machinery would have ended Slavery in the South... as it had in the North, over 600,000 military and untold civilian lives would have been spared( Black and white) and it could be argued that Blacks in the South might have faired better too as the War left them without work food, education and in a part of the country whose economy was destroyed for decades to come.

When one reads the actual slave accounts, which are documented in a number of books, you understand the hardship many faced after the war compared to their life in Slavery.

I have seen a number of these Slave narratives put in book form but I think they all come from a project which was done in the 30's to document the stories of still living slaves.

They are short chapters and I think very useful to educate even children with. I have a few myself and I have lent those books to more people than any other.

Just reading one page is as looking through a window of history... But it's not always what you expect or consistent with what you thought you knew about Slavery.

http://www.sandlapperpublishing.com/slave_narratives_from_the_real_v.htm

[ready4ONE 5,400]

anti-slavery movements existed as early as the 1700's in many areas, including the USA.

as already stated, slavery was already becoming uneconomical, and was in decline in the south. the prohibition on importation of new slaves was given in consideration of their already rapidly falling value.

see Peals Popular Educator And Cyclopedia (1876) for further detailed example.

if the anti-slavery issue was so important to Lincoln, then why did it take him 3 years to get around to emancipating the slaves? timing is everything, friend. when in doubt, look at the timing, and follow the money trail.

Obviously you believe the truth according to Lew Rockwell. Good luck with that!