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thongd4me

UNSOCIAL Security

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She applied for her SSN on Jan 5 (after POE on 29 December 2009).

I checked on her application on Feb 5 and they said I can't ask about it.

Maybe I have to have a "power of attorney" to do that because I work near the

office and we do NOT live near the office so she can't go there easily without me.

I called the SS Gestapo Administration hotline and they said for non US Citizens the wait was 60 days!

In the meantime we were very busy, but now the AOS application has been sent in

AND the I-94 validity has expired.

I talked to a guard at the local SS office (not the one we applied at) and he said

that if the number hadn't been granted in 20 days we would have 2 more chances

to re-apply and then have to wait a YEAR for the next chance for her to apply!

I don't know who to believe any more, but since the I-94 has expired and

we have sent the AOS application, do we have to wait until the EAD authorization

that she applied for (I-765) as part of AOS has been approved, or wait for the

GC to be received in order to get the SSN?

When she made the initial application they said everything was in order but

they have not contacted us in any way since then. It will be a 3-month wait

on April 5.

Signed affectionately,

"Peter Postal"headbonk.gif


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Russia
Timeline

She applied for her SSN on Jan 5 (after POE on 29 December 2009).

I checked on her application on Feb 5 and they said I can't ask about it.

Maybe I have to have a "power of attorney" to do that because I work near the

office and we do NOT live near the office so she can't go there easily without me.

I called the SS Gestapo Administration hotline and they said for non US Citizens the wait was 60 days!

In the meantime we were very busy, but now the AOS application has been sent in

AND the I-94 validity has expired.

I talked to a guard at the local SS office (not the one we applied at) and he said

that if the number hadn't been granted in 20 days we would have 2 more chances

to re-apply and then have to wait a YEAR for the next chance for her to apply!

I don't know who to believe any more, but since the I-94 has expired and

we have sent the AOS application, do we have to wait until the EAD authorization

that she applied for (I-765) as part of AOS has been approved, or wait for the

GC to be received in order to get the SSN?

When she made the initial application they said everything was in order but

they have not contacted us in any way since then. It will be a 3-month wait

on April 5.

Signed affectionately,

"Peter Postal"headbonk.gif

If you had waited the two weeks after POE to apply, then her status would have been updated in their compuretes and there wouldn't have been these delays. Now you are stuck in their limbo. Best to wait for her EAD and then file again.


Phil (Lockport, near Chicago) and Alla (Lobnya, near Moscow)

As of Dec 7, 2009, now Zero miles apart (literally)!

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If you had waited the two weeks after POE to apply, then her status would have been updated in their compuretes and there wouldn't have been these delays. Now you are stuck in their limbo. Best to wait for her EAD and then file again*.

*I figured as much, but didn't count on that "two week" snafu.

Thanks


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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Filed: Timeline

Why are you getting SSN advice from a security guard? Might as well have him do your taxes too. LOL

Unless you are a parent or legal guardian, SSA isn't supposed to disclose any info to you without first getting the OK of the applicant. So she would need to be there to say it's OK to talk to you. SSA does not recognize POA.

The processing of the SSN of an alien could take 60 days, but that is not the normal time it takes. Normally, the waiting goes from the time you submit the application to month and a half.

If the I-94 is expired or within 14 days of expiring, she is going to need either an EAD card (I-766) or I-551 stamp or card ( Green Card) to be assigned a work authorized SSN. Then that also needs to be verified before the SSN can be assigned.

It's always possible that the SSN has been assigned and the card was lost in the mail, but with the I-94 being expired, she can't be issued a replacement card without the I-766 or I-551. If that's the case ask for an SSN Verification Printout. Not a card, but better than nothing. Say an employer asked for it.

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Why are you getting SSN advice from a security guard? Might as well have him do your taxes too. LOL

Unless you are a parent or legal guardian, SSA isn't supposed to disclose any info to you without first getting the OK of the applicant. So she would need to be there to say it's OK to talk to you. SSA does not recognize POA.

The processing of the SSN of an alien could take 60 days, but that is not the normal time it takes. Normally, the waiting goes from the time you submit the application to month and a half.

If the I-94 is expired or within 14 days of expiring, she is going to need either an EAD card (I-766) or I-551 stamp or card ( Green Card) to be assigned a work authorized SSN. Then that also needs to be verified before the SSN can be assigned.

It's always possible that the SSN has been assigned and the card was lost in the mail, but with the I-94 being expired, she can't be issued a replacement card without the I-766 or I-551. If that's the case ask for an SSN Verification Printout. Not a card, but better than nothing. Say an employer asked for it.

You're right, normally I wouldn't take advice from a security guard, especially at the social security office,

but when we went there it was already a few days before the I-94 expired and I knew that if she went

through the whole application process that day again the result would have been likely the same (no card)

because they would be working on the case before they got the GC or EAD card to give them the green light.

I was just frustrated because they gave us no inkling of what the result of the case was in all that time.

Going forward, I preferred to concentrate on finishing the AOS forms which were not yet complete at that time.

She probably won't be thinking of starting work until the end of July in any case because she has to return

to Thailand (1 month) for her son's university graduation. If she was employed her employer would not

likely give her the time off for such a visit. I have no problem supporting her, that's my job.


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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Had a real d'uh! moment yesterday at the SSA - they said her application was denied because

we got married before she applied, then invited her to come in and re-apply, but that application would ALSO be denied until she gets her AOS!

When I pointed this out, she said yeah, my wife will get a denial letter for tax purposes so at this point that is good because the deadline is next week.

No apology was offered for NOT having sent the denial letter in a timely basis

and the SSA caseworker even tried to take my wife's application receipt letter

but I said no, that letter belonged to us.

Insight: don't get married before applying for SSN or you will have to wait until AOS is complete.

I still don't see the logic that says a K-1 holder should get it and someone married to a USC

should not.

I could swear that others in VJ said to get it after getting married, but I can only report what

the SSA caseworker told me.


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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Filed: Timeline

Had a real d'uh! moment yesterday at the SSA - they said her application was denied because we got married before she applied,

Insight: don't get married before applying for SSN or you will have to wait until AOS is complete.

I still don't see the logic that says a K-1 holder should get it and someone married to a USC should not.

I could swear that others in VJ said to get it after getting married, but I can only report whatthe SSA caseworker told me.

The person at the SSA office doesn't know what they are talking about. Marriage does not affect a K-1's eligibility to be assigned an SSN or issued a card. As long as the I-94 is not within 14 days of expiring or expired a K-1 is eligible married or not.

Now if you want less of a hassle it might be better to apply before you get married, but it's your decision.

BTW which SSA office was this?

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Canada
Timeline

Insight: don't get married before applying for SSN or you will have to wait until AOS is complete.

I still don't see the logic that says a K-1 holder should get it and someone married to a USC

should not.

When SSA clerks get confused, it seems like they tend to start making up regulations off the tops of their heads.

One piece of logic that could possibly, in a confused mind, generate the conclusion that marrying a USC kills the immigrant's eligibility for a SSN is this:

1 ) The only reason K1 holders are allowed to get SSNs is because some states [used to] require a SSN to get a marriage license, which is required to fulfill the conditions of the K1 visa.

2 ) Since the newly married K1 holder has, of necessity, already obtained a marriage license, they by definition no longer need to obtain a marriage license.

3 ) They no longer, then, require a SSN at this particular moment.

4 ) This causes the default criterion for SSN issuance - that an EAD or GC is required to be eligible for a SSN -to therefore become the relevant criteria.

Conclusion: the newly married K1 holder does not have an EAD or a GC, and is therefore not eligible to receive a SSN.

I don't believe this argument is legally correct, but it may very well be an easy and common misinterpretation resulting from the way the clerks are trained in the regulations, and may therefore be what is running through the SSA clerk's head, if they have a deeper reasoning behind their intransigence at all.


DON'T PANIC

"It says wonderful things about the two countries [Canada and the US] that neither one feels itself being inundated by each other's immigrants."

-Douglas Coupland

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Filed: Timeline

When SSA clerks get confused, it seems like they tend to start making up regulations off the tops of their heads.

One piece of logic that could possibly, in a confused mind, generate the conclusion that marrying a USC kills the immigrant's eligibility for a SSN is this:

1 ) The only reason K1 holders are allowed to get SSNs is because some states [used to] require a SSN to get a marriage license, which is required to fulfill the conditions of the K1 visa.

2 ) Since the newly married K1 holder has, of necessity, already obtained a marriage license, they by definition no longer need to obtain a marriage license.

3 ) They no longer, then, require a SSN at this particular moment.

4 ) This causes the default criterion for SSN issuance - that an EAD or GC is required to be eligible for a SSN -to therefore become the relevant criteria.

Conclusion: the newly married K1 holder does not have an EAD or a GC, and is therefore not eligible to receive a SSN.

I don't believe this argument is legally correct, but it may very well be an easy and common misinterpretation resulting from the way the clerks are trained in the regulations, and may therefore be what is running through the SSA clerk's head, if they have a deeper reasoning behind their intransigence at all.

That is not correct. The only reason that SSA allowed K-1s to be assigned an SSN without an EAD card is that INS at the time was having trouble getting EAD cards out to K-1s that applied under the A6 category before the 90 day period that they were valid had expired. So SSA changed procedure to allow K-1s that apply using the I-94.

OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL. SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION

ASSIGNMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS TO NONCITIZENSWITH FIANCÉ VISAS May 2008 AUDIT REPORT:

http://www.ssa.gov/oig/ADOBEPDF/audittxt/A-08-07-17044.htm

Now this is just an assumption, but I think what goes through the mind of SSA employees is that POMS says that a K-3 is the spouse of a U.S. citizen and they need an EAD card to be assigned an SSN or issue a replacement card, so the K-1 is married and now the spouse of a U.S. citizen, so he or she needs an EAD card.

Hopefully, when the new SSNAP POMS section comes out to replace RM 00203.500 it will clarify this.

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That is not correct. The only reason that SSA allowed K-1s to be assigned an SSN without an EAD card is that INS at the time was having trouble getting EAD cards out to K-1s that applied under the A6 category before the 90 day period that they were valid had expired. So SSA changed procedure to allow K-1s that apply using the I-94.

OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL. SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION

ASSIGNMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS TO NONCITIZENSWITH FIANCÉ VISAS May 2008 AUDIT REPORT:

http://www.ssa.gov/o...08-07-17044.htm

Now this is just an assumption, but I think what goes through the mind of SSA employees is that POMS says that a K-3 is the spouse of a U.S. citizen and they need an EAD card to be assigned an SSN or issue a replacement card, so the K-1 is married and now the spouse of a U.S. citizen, so he or she needs an EAD card.

Hopefully, when the new SSNAP POMS section comes out to replace RM 00203.500 it will clarify this.

Good link!

I gave some feedback (piece o'my mind) to the SSA through their online site:

With reference to:

http://www.ssa.gov/oig/ADOBEPDF/audittxt/A-08-07-17044.htm

There has been so much debate in the SSA about

abuses of K-1 visa holders who do not marry

the USC petitioner. My wife and I were married

2 days after her arrival in the US and were

told by the SSA 3 MONTHS after her application

that they lost all record of her application

while at the very least she was entitled to a

denial letter.

I don't see why getting married (well before

the I-94 stamp is 3 months old) should prevent

the non-USC spouse from getting the SSN, as

an SSN is required for filing joint taxes and

she was not contemplating getting a job before

her EAD or AOS had been acquired.

After making one mistake (not giving her a

denial letter in a reasonable time) she was

asked to re-apply when it was obvious that

her K-1 visa had expired (although we are waiting

for the EAD & AOS which take much longer).

Instead, at my request, she will get a denial

letter that we can use to obtain a valid tax ID

from the IRS. Then she will re-apply for the

SSN when her EAD or AOS come in.

I don't see why unmarried K-1 holders should be

allowed to get SSN's while the married ones are

penalized for getting married which is the purpose

of the K-1 in the first place!


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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This was my record of what happened when I went to the SSA:

Flash forward to April 8 - I went to the SSA office armed with a "power of attorney" specifically

giving me the power to inquire about her case. She will behaving surgery soon and didn't want

to travel to the city. First they told me that the power of attorney was no good, even without

looking at it, but this time they DID answer all my questions after I presented my case in

my relentless but charming style .

They didn't offer to call her but I told them to call her and they did. Don't take no for an answer

if they say she has to come in person. I also had the application letter she got on Jan. 5 and

her passport. The SSA official was a bit nervous about the letter, because they couldn't find

her case in the computer and there was no record of a denial reply, which she was entitled to.

After explaining to me that we shouldn't have got married sosoon after her POE but applied

for the SSN first, she told my wife to come in the next day and re apply! I calmly pointed out

that that would NOT be an option because, according to what she just told me, my wife could

only reapply after her AOS was achieved. What we DID need was a TAX ID for my wife because

the tax deadline is April 15. She has to have either a SSN or a tax ID and the IRS will NOT give

her a tax ID without a "DENIAL LETTER" from theSSA saying that she can't get a SSN right now.

The SSA official said that the denial letter would go out the same day. We hope to get it today

(April 10) or Monday (April 12) in time to file our taxes. According to the IRS, we have to give

them the denial letter along with a filled out W-7 form (Application for IRS Individual

TaxpayerIdentification Number) and the tax return.

Edited by thongd4me

02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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This was my record of what happened when I went to the SSA:

Flash forward to April 8 - I went to the SSA office armed with a "power of attorney" specifically

giving me the power to inquire about her case. She will behaving surgery soon and didn't want

to travel to the city. First they told me that the power of attorney was no good, even without

looking at it, but this time they DID answer all my questions after I presented my case in

my relentless but charming style .

They didn't offer to call her but I told them to call her and they did. Don't take no for an answer

if they say she has to come in person. I also had the application letter she got on Jan. 5 and

her passport. The SSA official was a bit nervous about the letter, because they couldn't find

her case in the computer and there was no record of a denial reply, which she was entitled to.

After explaining to me that we shouldn't have got married sosoon after her POE but applied

for the SSN first, she told my wife to come in the next day and re apply! I calmly pointed out

that that would NOT be an option because, according to what she just told me, my wife could

only reapply after her AOS was achieved. What we DID need was a TAX ID for my wife because

the tax deadline is April 15. She has to have either a SSN or a tax ID and the IRS will NOT give

her a tax ID without a "DENIAL LETTER" from theSSA saying that she can't get a SSN right now.

The SSA official said that the denial letter would go out the same day. We hope to get it today

(April 10) or Monday (April 12) in time to file our taxes. According to the IRS, we have to give

them the denial letter along with a filled out W-7 form (Application for IRS Individual

TaxpayerIdentification Number) and the tax return.

Got the denial letter on April 10 as expected, so our taxes will be good to go next week.


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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Flash forward -

We applied for her SSN on July 27 with the I-551 stamp on her passport -

it's effectively the same as the GC which also carries the I-551 number.

The clerk said he didn't know if the stamp would be accepted but the system did accept it.

He claimed there would be a month wait - that seems a little suspect, so we will check on

that after 2 weeks have passed without getting the SSN.


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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