How much do you pay for healthcare?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

From a mathematical perspective, yes. But in most aspects the zeros are of importance.

Caveat: I haven't read the entire argument and have no idea the context or significance of this argument.

The post was out of context and the argument is insignificant, as are all the extra zero(s) in this case.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The post was out of context and the argument is insignificant, as are all the extra zero(s) in this case.

You are 100.000% correct.

[SMOKE 1,426]

the costs with & without insurance are way too high.

that is the problem. not the insurance companies. the medical industries OTT profits. until that is demonized & changed...nothing will.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

that is the problem. not the insurance companies. the medical industries OTT profits. until that is demonized & changed...nothing will.

This is why so many Canadian doctors move to the US. They can live comfortably in Canada but they can make a killing here. Pun intended.

Edited March 12, 2010 by w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

that is the problem. not the insurance companies. the medical industries OTT profits. until that is demonized & changed...nothing will.

Too true. People want a high class New York call girl, but can only afford the neighborhood skank.

[Ali G. 37]

I'm not too worried about thousands or even a few million who might disagree.

Millions? Try billions actually, with the majority who disagree being from here. Most people I have spoken with who 'disagree' with reform nor care about what everyone else does have one of few traits. My favorite is that they have never actually used another system but are experts on it's failure. I guess that's what the first amendment does to people, it makes them falsely and ignorantly assume that opinion equates to knowledge.

As I've said, I look at everything in context of population... If the majority of the population in a country our size are covered and happy with their coverage, then let it be.

You mean Libertarians and Republicans. Two groups who are clearly really healthy.

It's pure idiocy to think that placing more people on an already overburdened system would cause costs to go down when doctors/hospitals are expected to follow the same policies they always have.

The cost will go down once the middle man gets taken out of the system. Why should someone else profit on something as essential as health care?

The fact of the matter is, you're right. Government DOES need to step in and step back at the same time. There are too many laws on the books on the federal level and too many in many cases on a state level that have attributed to continued rising costs. Too many special interests in the fields of pharmaceuticals and even in medical equipment have gotten by with too much ####### for too long because Washington is BROKEN when it comes to lobbyists...

The government needs to change the rules on lobbying. Since their pockets are being lined, so they won't budge, we the people need to demand it of them. Lobbying should only occur in a public arena, for all to see. Nowhere in the constitution you love does it give a corporation, conglomerate or some organization the right to have a voice equal to 'We the people'.

If COST was down and insurance premiums were ridiculous, then there'd be an argument for government intervention in insurance. As it stands though, that's not the case when you look at what many people "pay in" and what they actually end up "taking out" if they need a major procedure.

Costs are high. Fact is I pay much more here than I did back home. The same surgery that would costs $300k here, would cost $30K there

I'm not for Government doing nothing, but a bill that does nothing but mandate coverage, not allow for denial of coverage, increases taxes out the #######, and cuts medicare, is NOT going to help the problem.... It's going to contribute to it and lead to even higher Costs overall and at the same time possibly bankrupt the insurance industry. Of course, part of me thinks that might be their overall goal....

I think you assume a universal policy will be on par with that of everyone else. That somehow you will be shortchanged. Much like walmart uses their buying power, it will simply use its buying power to purchase a large scale policy. I've studied engineering and biz / eco, I am currently an analyst, and the health care bill proposed makes a lot of financial sense to me.

[Ali G. 37]

that is the problem. not the insurance companies. the medical industries OTT profits. until that is demonized & changed...nothing will.

Insurance companies add to the cost. They did make over $11 billion last year in pure profit. As you are saying, it's not just them eating up the bill. The costs are added at any one of these stages:

• Insurance
  
• Hospital
  
• Tests
  
• Doctors
  
• Pharmaceutical
  
• Pharmacies
  

I saw on the news just the other day where a hospital billed $140 for a single Tylenol tablet. I did hear from a lady who was charged $35k for one nights stay. This is why a lot of other systems use both public and private hospitals. Not only does it add competition, but it keeps the costs down and prevents such fraud.

[Ali G. 37]

This is why so many Canadian doctors move to the US. They can live comfortably in Canada but they can make a killing here. Pun intended.

And there is the problem. It's become a profit industry rather than one which cares for people.

[Ali G. 37]

Too true. People want a high class New York call girl, but can only afford the neighborhood skank.

Health care reform is not about giving people a top notch policy. It's about providing them with the basics, a HMO equivalent. For everyone else here with a decent policy, it's going to be business as usual. Just without the fear of being declined for pre-existing conditions.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

And there is the problem. It's become a profit industry rather than one which cares for people.

It has always been a profit industry.... just it's been taken to the 'extreme' when health care went corporate....

[Ali G. 37]

It has always been a profit industry.... just it's been taken to the 'extreme' when health care went corporate....

Health care should be in the same league as education or military. Too bad you don't see it like that.

What that means is that while a sector can and should be able to generate a profit, it should be held accountable and provide value to all people, ahead of exorbitant profits.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Health care should be in the same league as education or military. Too bad you don't see it like that.

What that means is that while a sector can and should be able to generate a profit, it should be held accountable and provide value to all people, ahead of exorbitant profits.

A private industry can be held accountable without the Government running it.

Hell, the military would be a hulluva lot cheaper if we could figure out a way to jusify privatizing it.... I hear "Iron Man 2" will show us this.

[Ladylethal 12]

that is the problem. not the insurance companies. the medical industries OTT profits. until that is demonized & changed...nothing will.

I didn't have a health plan back home, but then again the average middle class brazillian can afford private consults and sometimes it's better to save some money for a big surgery if you ever need one than paying the monthly fees for health insurance. Doctors here cost way too much for us to be able to afford paying out of our pocket on a regular basis.

[Ali G. 37]

A private industry can be held accountable without the Government running it.

Hell, the military would be a hulluva lot cheaper if we could figure out a way to jusify privatizing it.... I hear "Iron Man 2" will show us this.

Actually the private industry is robbing the military (government) blind. For example charging $35k for a $50 replacement valve. Yeah, I saw how awesome blackwater's performance was in combat.

Dude, let the facts guide your opinion, rather than your opinion guide the facts. When I enter a debate, my opinion can be swayed, as I am willing to be proven (reasoned) wrong. Way too many people nowadays are set in their ways and refuse to accept any evidence that proves them wrong. You realize you are doing what folks do that root for illegal immigration. They take an ideological stance rather than a third party stance, which analyzes the overall facts.

It just kills me though that you guys have been indoctrinated to think the rest of the world is basically stupid and should not be considered period. Even when they are beating you in various areas. Rest assure, China does not share this same trait - hence their rapid and sudden success. While you guys are ignoring the world, they are learning from it..

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Actually the private industry is robbing the military (government) blind. For example charging $35k for a $50 replacement valve. Yeah, I saw how awesome blackwater's performance was in combat.

Dude, let the facts guide your opinion, rather than your opinion guide the facts. When I enter a debate, my opinion can be swayed, as I am willing to be proven (reasoned) wrong. Way too many people nowadays are set in their ways and refuse to accept any evidence that proves them wrong. You realize you are doing what folks do that root for illegal immigration. They take an ideological stance rather than a third party stance, which analyzes the overall facts.

It just kills me though that you guys have been indoctrinated to think the rest of the world is basically stupid and should not be considered period. Even when they are beating you in various areas. Rest assure, China does not share this same trait - hence their rapid and sudden success. While you guys are ignoring the world, they are learning from it..

I don't look at things as how 'we're' doing it versus how 'they' are doing it. I look at things from a point of view that takes in all aspects and tries to find the actual problems.

People can easily be corrupted, that's a given.

The most problems I see in our government is that BOTH parties equally look out for special interests rather than the people and rarely do what's 'right' by the people without making sure those special interests are well taken care of.

I'm all for Government regulation on any industry, so long as it sticks to regulating fraud, unethical practices, eliminates monopolies, makes sure things are relatively (not ridiculously) safe, and does it in a way that doesn't harm small business.

We've gotten way beyond that and that's where we have gone wrong. We'll over-regulate here, we'll under-regulate over there, we'll not even regulate in some areas and the whole thing becomes one big mess. There needs to be a fine core balance that is done across all industries.