V-day vs W-day

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Maybe Valentine's Day once meant something, but for me it has become a silly excuse for a holiday. "Oh my, what a surprise, flowers and candy!"

As for celebrating Int. Woman's Day, it's a Soviet/communist holiday and I will not salute my old enemy. Maybe for some it has become a harmless tradition, but I don't surrender my history and values to briefly please my wife. I am not a Russo-centric husband.

But, none of this is an issue for my wife because I prefer to surprise her with gifts and money offerings when she does not expect it. As Sean Connery states in the movie, "Finding Forrester," the key to making a woman happy is "an unexpected gift at an unexpected time."

I may be off base in my take on woman's day, and probably am, because it probably predates my thoughts. I have an incredible respct for FSU women, most particularly those from Belarus and Ukraine who's homes were destroyed multiple time and were left to rebuild a country, more or less on their own with a devastated male population. I do not apply politics to such things. One cannot read the sign about 400 women and children being led to a bomb crater by the Fascists and gunned down and dumped in the hole and think of it in terms of politics or if they were our "enemy at some point" The women and children massacred in that hole in Donetsk (Stalino at that time) were never my enemies. I have as much respect for the shrines of Red Army soldiers that died fighting our common enemy, and bear in mind that the only time the soldiers of the USSR and the USA met on the battlefield were as friends, not enemies. It is interesting that while the former Soviet Republics make every effort to remove sewer covers with the Hammer and Sickle, they leave the Soviet war memorials and I am thankful for that. For me, that is the meaning of Woman's day, again, maybe I am daft, but what is wrong with honoring that? There is not a Ukrainian family that was not affected by that war, for me that is why I honor their women, icldsuing my wife. I somehow do not imagine that Red Army soldiers sent to die with one rifle for three men were in anyway thinking of the greater glory of communism. At any rate, just my 5 Koppec

I like holidays, i will take the day off for any that we can think up. There is nothing wong with surprises either.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yet you married one.....how effed up is THAT!

God I hope the generation with that mentality dies out soon. Take it at a face value or not, but I wish it for both countries. Because this is a borderline retarded way to look at things, yet, it's how people used to live. Scary sh!t.

Mart, I will say this to you if no one else has. I do not consider it a generational thing. I am certainly of the generation what "would" think that if there was such a thing. I did the "duck and cover" drills in school, lived just south of a SAC base in west Texas where the B-58s (the "Hustler" the original supersonic bomber and a COOL airplane it was, was based) and the B-52s roared low over our place every day and I made use of the commisary and PX as my father was retired military, but NO ONE ever told me the people of the Soviet Union, the men and women and children, were my enemy. Political systems and pliticians may have made them so (thank goodness they never did). I also found the people of the former USSR to be very hosptiable to visitors, even embarrassingly so. And I never felt I was treated, by them, as the "former enemy". I do not rule out the existance of ignorant people in both locations, but I would ask, please, do not attach such to a certain generation (mine) along with the wish that we die out quickly!!!!!!!!!

Though I admit to getting ferried around in some old Tupolev bombers in Ukraine and the thought of what they WERE intended for when they were built DID cross my mind.

[Martyshk 137]

I do not rule out the existance of ignorant people in both locations, but I would ask, please, do not attach such to a certain generation (mine) along with the wish that we die out quickly!!!!!!!!!

Though I admit to getting ferried around in some old Tupolev bombers in Ukraine and the thought of what they WERE intended for when they were built DID cross my mind.

Just like I learned to take everything you write with a smirk and with a grain of salt, try to see my sardonic way of expressing myself as well.

As far as the subject matter goes... My father, when he served in the military (served in Siberia in late '60s)...well, he was one of many who worked on building all those silos that pointed missles to USA, think about that too for a second. Yet, I've never heard anything from him about US, or any other western country - they just pain didn't care. And I think it is somewhat safe to assume that my father is older than you are (don't know about visaveteran) so yes, there's ignorant people, but there's also a trend in different generations. Even still, whenever I hear "socialist" on TV it's used almost as a swear word, like OMG communists. Propaganda in both countries have twisted people's minds. I have pretty much lived half of my life over there and half over here, so I can compare somewhat. I also remember, how the biggest question at our interview, while coming to U.S. was : "Were you ever a member of the Communist Party".....well....durrrrrrrrrrr, everyone was.

Blah, I can rant forever about this sh!t, but also don't assume that all young people are historically (and, well, geographically) challenged (well, hey, it's more of an American trend anyway )

P.S. Oh, and if you think I didn't do "duck and cover" in school, you are misinformed

Edited February 13, 2010 by Мартышк+Мартышка

[Ovaltine Jenkins 5]

Maybe Valentine's Day once meant something, but for me it has become a silly excuse for a holiday. "Oh my, what a surprise, flowers and candy!"

Maybe you could change it up a little or is your fantasy that rusty?

As for celebrating Int. Woman's Day, it's a Soviet/communist holiday and I will not salute my old enemy. Maybe for some it has become a harmless tradition, but I don't surrender my history and values to briefly please my wife. I am not a Russo-centric husband.

Seriously dude, learn your history. USA is the originating country of IWD (it's not just steaks, waffles and manly talk, afterall) and it's celebrated all over the world, not just Russia.

Oh, and there's an Int. men's day too if you cared to know, but I bet you are too of a wuss for that

[Ovaltine Jenkins 5]

I have a question for experience RUBers regarding Valentine's day:

Should I buy my wife gifts and flowers on Sunday, February 14th, or should I better wait until Monday, March 8th?

You don't need to buy anything. When will people get that special times or holidays can be special without robbing the bank and killing each other in the stores? Commercialized much?

However, I will buy my wife some new high heels with rainbows, diamonds and unicorns

[visaveteran 1]

Oh, and there's an Int. men's day too if you cared to know, but I bet you are too of a wuss for that

Facts straight? Here's what I found about IWD. "Started as a political event, the holiday blended in the culture of many countries (primarily Russia and the countries of former Soviet bloc)."

I celebrate Father's Day, Veterans Day and Memorial Day as these are appropriate for me. I am a father, veteran and honor my fallen brothers...many killed by Soviet made weapons and in wars sponsored by the Soviet Union. Even now Russia sells missile defense to nut job Iran and sends it's old rusty submarines to Cuba and Venezuela.

No, I think I'll pass on celebrating Russian holidays.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Just like I learned to take everything you write with a smirk and with a grain of salt, try to see my sardonic way of expressing myself as well.

As far as the subject matter goes... My father, when he served in the military (served in Siberia in late '60s)...well, he was one of many who worked on building all those silos that pointed missles to USA, think about that too for a second. Yet, I've never heard anything from him about US, or any other western country - they just pain didn't care. And I think it is somewhat safe to assume that my father is older than you are (don't know about visaveteran) so yes, there's ignorant people, but there's also a trend in different generations. Even still, whenever I hear "socialist" on TV it's used almost as a swear word, like OMG communists. Propaganda in both countries have twisted people's minds. I have pretty much lived half of my life over there and half over here, so I can compare somewhat. I also remember, how the biggest question at our interview, while coming to U.S. was : "Were you ever a member of the Communist Party".....well....durrrrrrrrrrr, everyone was.

Blah, I can rant forever about this sh!t, but also don't assume that all young people are historically (and, well, geographically) challenged (well, hey, it's more of an American trend anyway )

P.S. Oh, and if you think I didn't do "duck and cover" in school, you are misinformed

When we visited the War Memorial Museum in Kiev, I recall a propaganda section in the building with the exhibits about Afghanistan. One poster in particular struck me. It was one of those representations from the seventies of the earth from orbit, but the background was blue. There was a noose around the planet, and the noose was made from an American flag. Under this picture was one large word, НЕТ! It occurs to me that the madness from those days was pretty widespread, and that an only slightly different view still holds in much of the FSU. I mean of course the view that America cannot be allowed to dominate the world, and the spread of American style democracy must be stopped by any means. I remember being instructed (and believing) when I was a young Marine that killing communists would protect my family (kill a commie for mommie). As an old fart, I recognize just how dangerous this sort of absolutist position is, and how close we came to destroying the whole world because of that bullsh1t.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Brad and Vika

[visaveteran 1]

Yet you married one.....how effed up is THAT!

God I hope the generation with that mentality dies out soon. Take it at a face value or not, but I wish it for both countries. Because this is a borderline retarded way to look at things, yet, it's how people used to live. Scary sh!t.

I guess we share this "effed up" Russian marriage thing. Or do you see yourself as "Russian." Where do your loyalties lie?

Yes, I am from the Cold War generation and exactly what is so different now in Russia with Putin running around without his shirt and befriending all our enemies? And at home personal freedom in Russia seems to be slipping backwards. So what's so new and different in Russia? A little democratic window dressing but as the Who sing in the song "Don't Get Fooled Again," "the new boss, same as the old boss." Don't hold your breath that the new generation governments (US and Russia) will like each other any better than the old ones.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Just like I learned to take everything you write with a smirk and with a grain of salt, try to see my sardonic way of expressing myself as well.

As far as the subject matter goes... My father, when he served in the military (served in Siberia in late '60s)...well, he was one of many who worked on building all those silos that pointed missles to USA, think about that too for a second. Yet, I've never heard anything from him about US, or any other western country - they just pain didn't care. And I think it is somewhat safe to assume that my father is older than you are (don't know about visaveteran) so yes, there's ignorant people, but there's also a trend in different generations. Even still, whenever I hear "socialist" on TV it's used almost as a swear word, like OMG communists. Propaganda in both countries have twisted people's minds. I have pretty much lived half of my life over there and half over here, so I can compare somewhat. I also remember, how the biggest question at our interview, while coming to U.S. was : "Were you ever a member of the Communist Party".....well....durrrrrrrrrrr, everyone was.

Blah, I can rant forever about this sh!t, but also don't assume that all young people are historically (and, well, geographically) challenged (well, hey, it's more of an American trend anyway )

P.S. Oh, and if you think I didn't do "duck and cover" in school, you are misinformed

I don't know the circumstyances of your immigration here. Alla was not aksed if she was ever a member of the communist party, but of course she was. That IS what the young Pioneers and Komsomol was for and her mother was a highly placed civil engineer "director" for the Dombass region, so yeah, her mother did what she did to get along. And Alla did what a good daughter was expected to do. Big deal.

As far as who made what weapons, well plenty of Russians were killed with American made weapons in all these stupid wars by proxy. I cannot begrudge the people of the country because their government supplied weapons to people that were not friendly to us. t was the way it was. But I try not to consider politics when thinking of people who just did what they had to do, brave things, for their country when it was attacked, and what they had to do after it was liberated.

Incidentally, though they do not always (even yet) acknowledge it, we sold the Russians a TON (actally millions of tons) of war material including thousands of Sherman tanks, nearly every P-39 Aerocobra airplane, almost all the M91/30 rifles they had (made by Westinghouse in New Jersey) not too mention food, fuel, bullets to fght the Facists. Funny how the weapons that get passed around end up coming back to bite us! Now the Taliban is using some the weaposns we gave them to fight the Russians to kill Americans. The pendulum swings.

[visaveteran 1]

When we visited the War Memorial Museum in Kiev, I recall a propaganda section in the building with the exhibits about Afghanistan. One poster in particular struck me. It was one of those representations from the seventies of the earth from orbit, but the background was blue. There was a noose around the planet, and the noose was made from an American flag. Under this picture was one large word, НЕТ! It occurs to me that the madness from those days was pretty widespread, and that an only slightly different view still holds in much of the FSU. I mean of course the view that America cannot be allowed to dominate the world, and the spread of American style democracy must be stopped by any means. I remember being instructed (and believing) when I was a young Marine that killing communists would protect my family (kill a commie for mommie). As an old fart, I recognize just how dangerous this sort of absolutist position is, and how close we came to destroying the whole world because of that bullsh1t.

Brad,

First, thanks for your service as a US Marine. And you and I, as soldiers, both swore allegiance to the USA. I still take that oath seriously.

Second, I don't see things any better in the world today. Iran is absolutist. North Korea is absolutist. Bin Laden is absolutist. And they all hate the USA. I think these enemies are more a threat than the Soviet Union. My issue with Russia is it helps empower these nut jobs with arms and technology...and the power to protect them with UN vetoes. Frankly, I'm tired of Russia's anti-American stance and gamesmanship.

[visaveteran 1]

I also remember, how the biggest question at our interview, while coming to U.S. was : "Were you ever a member of the Communist Party".....well....durrrrrrrrrrr, everyone was.

Actually that's not true...only some Russians, probably a small minority, were members of The Party.

[Martyshk 137]

Actually that's not true...only some Russians, probably a small minority, were members of The Party.

You really going to educate me on Russian history? really? small minority?........ sure thing then.

[visaveteran 1]

You really going to educate me on Russian history? really? small minority?........ sure thing then.

History lesson:

Membership in the party ultimately became a privilege, with a small subset of the general population of Party becoming an elite class or nomenklatura in Soviet society. Nomenklatura enjoyed many perquisites denied to the average Soviet citizen. Among those perks were shopping at well-stocked stores, access to foreign merchandise, preference in obtaining housing, access to dachas and holiday resorts, being allowed to travel abroad, sending their children to prestigious universities, and obtaining prestigious jobs (as well as party membership itself) for their children. It became virtually impossible to join the Soviet ruling and managing elite without being a member of the Communist Party.

Membership had its risks, however, especially in the 1930s when the party was subjected to purges under Stalin. Membership in the party was not open. To become a party member one had to be approved by various committees and one's past was closely scrutinised. As generations grew up never having known anything but the USSR, party membership became something one generally achieved after passing a series of stages. Children would join the Young Pioneers and then, at the age of 14, may graduate to the Komsomol (Young Communist League) and ultimately, as an adult, if one had shown the proper adherence to party discipline or had the right connections one would become a member of the Communist Party itself. However, membership also had its obligations. Komsomol and CPSU members were expected not only to pay dues but also to carry out appropriate assignments and "social tasks" (общественные поручения).

In 1918 it had a membership of approximately 200,000. In the late 1920s under Stalin, the party engaged in a heavy recruitment campaign (the "Lenin Levy") of new members from both the working class and rural areas. This was both an attempt to "proletarianize" the party and an attempt by Stalin to strengthen his base by outnumbering the Old Bolsheviks and reducing their influence in the party.

By 1933, the party had approximately 3.5 million members but as a result of the Great Purge party membership was cut down to 1.9 million by 1939.[citation needed] In 1986, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union had over 19 million members or approximately 10% of the USSR's adult population. Over 44% of party members were classified as industrial workers, 12% were collective farmers. The CPSU had party organizations in fourteen of the USSR's 15 republics. In the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic itself there was no separate Communist Party until 1990 as affairs were controlled directly by the CPSU.

[Martyshk 137]

Thank for that information. Since I have never been to any kinds of school in my life it is very very informative.

Interwebz are just amazing aren't they?

Oh wait, this is from Wikipedia, isn't it?

From the site that is written by people who might not have a slightest idea what they are talking about

Edited February 13, 2010 by Мартышк+Мартышка

[visaveteran 1]

Thank for that information. Since I have never been to any kinds of school in my life it is very very informative.

Interwebz are just amazing aren't they?

Oh wait, this is from Wikipedia, isn't it?

From the site that is written by people who might not have a slightest idea what they are talking about

Waiting for your authentic Russian data. Please, inform us ignorant Americans.