Baby Corner

[Jenn! 918]

Because its probably the most traumatizing scenario you can imagine when you just gave birth. Or for anyone. I think the circumcision rate would be much lower if they would let parents watch/show them a video of how it is done.

The midwife said that 9 out of 10 parents who insisted on being present passed out on the floor right after she got the clamps on. So for your own good they recommend you stay in your room if you insist on having the baby circumcised.

But I just feel (and thats the reason why I brought this up) is that most parents don't think about how traumatizing/invasive/very painful the procedure actually is. It's been done for years, tradition so they assume its necessary. It's usually the daddy who calls the shots because he was "snipped" and he doesn't remember anything, right? The pain management aspect is rarely brought up nor are the details of the procedure in the 3 minutes that it takes to obtain the consent and wisk the baby to the "operating table". Most nurses I talked to today said their son's are circumcised but they'd not do it again if they had another baby.

Well, for my husband it is for religious reasons - not getting it done would be like not raising him in his religion, which is not an option. He was actually 5 years old when he was circumsized and remembers it vividly. Not being a religious person myself, I find it hard to understand the necessity.

[Mommy2ZaidnSalma 11]

Zaid was circumcised due to religous reasons and just because that would be my preference for my boys. I did make sure both a numbing agent and a sugar paci was used. My nurse (who is a very good friend of mine) warned me that they "Arent what moms think" but she would make sure he was taken care of, she swore to me Zaid didnt even cry. It didnt give him any obvious discomfort after it was done and looking back now Im very glad we did. I dont know how people do it after the baby is several weeks,months,years old. I would have to be able to put my son under if that was the case.

My sisters son was circumsized and his skin ended up reattaching at about 3 months old. I dont know how an un-circumsized ####### looks but I truly feel bad for her son. His ####### doesnt look like a ####### at all. (it kinda looks like a pile of skin, the head of his ####### BARELY pokes out) The father is very upset over the fact and they will be seeing a urologist next month to see what their options are. Makes me sad.

Needless to say Im glad this one is a girl, no circumsision to worry about!

[chnst 6]

after the baby is 1 month old they are required to use general anesthesia for a circ. Doing it without anesthesia on a newborn is based on the old fashioned belief that a newborn cannot feel pain like an adult or an older child. That has been proven wrong and they introduced the ring block/glucose etc but a lot of the practitioners are still doing it without any pain management. That's why I am writing this because you guys can request that for your child. The baby who was circ'ed with the ring block and glucose seemed less distressed than the other one although it was still painful. But his vitals stabilized a lot faster than the baby who didn't get anything.

I am not against circumcision although it is definitely not a choice for my kids, for cultural reasons and for lack of pain management. If one of them has to be circumcised for medical reasons then that would only happen if I can find a place that uses some form of anesthesia.

about the flu shot: I got mine yesterday at work, its free and it took only a minute so I just did it. My midwife recommends it and she told me that she never had a pt with problems after the flu shot so that made me feel better.

[Jenn! 918]

No, it's definitely good to have knowledge beforehand, for sure. I know that the hospital we were at used topical lidocaine. I'm not sure about a ring block. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the standards vary by practitioner.

ETA: Actually I think it might have been lidocaine injections - I'm not sure. That's terrible that I don't even know.

I also read that they don't do ciorcumcisions without some sort of anesthesia anymore in the U.S. I guess that's not true.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Jenn!

[Anna C. 4]

Hm all the students my mom had over the years from Muslim countries had their circ done at age 9-10; it was done at the hospital under full anesthesia and followed by a huge party similar to a Bat Mitzvah, it was like a rite of passage into manhood and involved lots of money and presents. Does that vary from country to country (her students were mostly from Albania, Turkey and Morocco)?

I find it horrible that medical professionals claim newborns cannot feel pain and perform surgery without proper anesthesia. For doctor's it violates the Hippocratic Oath, well the other practitioners don't have it so I guess they can get away with it. I'm not a fan of the surgery at all, it is out of question for my sons (and my husband agrees, even though he was cut at birth and his mom wasn't even really asked, they just did it back then). I understand cultural reasons, but still would insist in such a case on proper anesthesia! I know of Jewish mamas who opt for a "nick" of the foreskin instead, as I read from one mama explaining it that the Thora doesn't require full amputation but "only bloodshed", so to speak, so nicking it is enough. I'm not sure about other cultural rules for the lack of knowing someone who belongs to it. I just know all the stuff from my mom's students and that the boys said they were uncomfy for a couple of weeks, but were given painkillers, which babies can't take.

@ chnst: Can you opt out of assisting at the surgery for moral reasons? I mean you could try... It must be extremely traumatizing. I watched only a little of a Youtube video showing one, that was enough to convince me not having it done, I nearly threw up...

Edited November 18, 2010 by Anna C.

[Jenn! 918]

Hm all the students my mom had over the years from Muslim countries had their circ done at age 9-10; it was done at the hospital under full anesthesia and followed by a huge party similar to a Bat Mitzvah, it was like a rite of passage into manhood and involved lots of money and presents. Does that vary from country to country (her students were mostly from Albania, Turkey and Morocco)?

I'm not sure about other countries, but yes that's how it is in Morocco. I would have a much harder time getting my grown child circumcized though than a newborn - just what we're used to culturally I guess.

Anyway, I'm going to step out of this topic because it's upsetting for me to keep hearing about how horrible the procedure is. I feel guilty.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Jenn!

[chnst 6]

Anna: well yeah I can fill out a form to opt out of doing circumcisions for ethical/cultural decisions but I chose not to. It's my job to accept other cultural/religous beliefs. And it would also mean more work for my coworkers because my supervisor will have to make someone else take care of my patient. But next time I am totally going to draw up some lidocaine without asking the practitioner. If its there she may use it. Plus they charge the same amount of money for the procedure regardless if they use the ring block or not.

Jenn: I'm sorry I really did not intend to make you feel guilty. I just want to make people aware that it isn't a casual procedure like a heelstick for example and that there are so many different ways to do it. A lot of practitioners may not tell you exactly what they use, which isn't your fault at all. If I hadn't seen it myself I would absolutely assume they'd do it as pain-less as possible.

A lot of hospitals have different policies on everything not just the circumcisions. When Ben was in the hospital this summer I learned to ask a ton of questions, insist on proper hygiene, get second opinions on everything etc, you totally have to be your own advocate.

When I worked in Germany a lot of procedures follow a certain standard in all hospitals so that was very new to me that each person can use different methods and that 2 patients in the same unit may not get the same treatment just because they happen to have different providers.

And I agree with you, I'd rather have the child circumcised at a very young age than when they are older. The hospital I worked at had a lot of muslim clients who got a doctors order for their infants just before they turned 1. They would be admitted, put under general anesthesia in the OR, have the procedure and then they were fine on motrin/tylenol postop.

[Eveline 9]

Adam was circumcised and thinking back now I wish I had done more research. I still don't know if I would have been able to convince my husband NOT to have it done. No idea. What upsets me most is that I didn't ask any questions. They came in, my husband wasn't there, I was recovering from that friggin c/s, totally drugged up and just took him and I let him go (now we had talked about this before and agreed to have it done and still I didn't ask questions). He came back quiet, not crying and very sleepy. While I first thought that it might not have hurt him, I'm now believing that he probably screamed his lungs out while he was being cut and was so exhausted that he just passed out on my ####### later on. I know he cried a lot when we changed diapers and my husband took care of it.

I feel sorry for not stepping up but at the same time I'm glad it's over, he doesn't have any issues, it looks good, it healed good and I don't think he's ever going to ask me any questions as to why we have decided to have it done. Now, if I got pregnant again and it's a boy what would I do....I don't know. I would probably try to convince my husband not to have it done and he'd tell me that we HAVE to have it done because that's just the way it is and that now since Adam is cut, the baby will have to be cut too. I don't know. Maybe we'd still have it done but I wanna be present and I want them to use some kind of numbing agent. I'm really on the fence with it. There are no pros to a circumcision...really, there aren't unless it's a medical issue and the foreskin is too tight or whatever. There are however a lot of cons. Adam complains every now and then that his ####### hurts (usually when it's hard) and I'm wondering if his cut might be too tight. It's very very rare that he complains about it and I've read that even intact boys complain about it so I'm hoping that it's just the way he's laying or so that actually hurts him. Aahhh...I'm having lots of 'what if' moments with that too. We can't have it undone, unfortunately. I just think that informed consent is the way to go. Really know what you are doing and have done to your babies. Unfortunately, with Adam I didn't ask a lot of questions. I was in that 'doctor knows best' mindset and everything seems so routine...like it's a piece of cake.

[Anna C. 4]

@ Jenn: Don't feel guilty! It's a cultural thing and done. No reason to sweat it now so much later!

Well, I learned too that all hospitals and doctors do not follow the same standards... I couldn't complain about hygiene when Jona spent a couple days at the hospital with the croup, but some residents didn't even bother to read his chart, but come in anyways without reading and thinking it's a different patient. And on and on... Being your advocate and your child's is always very important. Gosh did I look forever for a good doc for Jona, and now we have one. Same with the birthing center, long drive, but worth for what I'm getting. Sometimes I'm not surprised about lawsuit happiness when I see how many things are done wrong or improperly.

[Mommy2ZaidnSalma 11]

Jordan must be different because it is done at birth and isnt considered a rite of passage, just something that they are suppose to do..

[tnh9479 1]

I fought to get Zak circ'ed in the hospital. The Dr. On call from my OB practice would only do it in his office (probably because he could charge more). Anyway, I had to get Zak on my health insurance ASAP because they told me after 2 weeks old it had to be done by a urologist under general anesthesia. We managed to get it done. They tried to get me to come in and told me they used injectable pain meds. No thank you. It was hard enough seeing him wince and cry the first time he urinated. My husband still remembers his. He was about 6 and him and his younger brother had it done and had a huge party.

[chnst 6]

Evi: amen to that. I'm sorry, I would probably feel the same. It's such an ethical dilemma for us people who come from a culture where this would never be considered for a healthy baby. If I hadn't heard about how its done I probably would have trusted them just like you to do the right thing because they really make it sound like a necessary procedure before you take your baby home that is no big deal. But the hospital charges it as surgery because it is surgery and it is a big deal. But like you said, he is fine, it looks good and I'd rather have it done when they are very little then when they are 6. It was a very tough discussion with my hubby when Ben was born but thank God we compromised and he agreed not to have it done with number 2 either. It's a sore topic and he doesn't like to talk about it but he understands where I'm coming from. He calls Ben's peepee the "ant-eater" If you have another boy, just don't be present for the procedure. It really bothered me watching that yesterday and I don't think I could watch my own baby go through that. Just insist on proper pain management, especially the glucose and the ring block. glucose works best I think. And tylenol to take the edge off later.

BTW- you guys planning on having more children??

Kelly: one more week til thanksgiving! we are having it on wednesday because of work... I hope I can get some online shopping done on friday night. So glad Ben is still little and doesn't really care what day we celebrate the holidays. I hope by the time they are bigger we will have a system where at least one of us can be home with the kids.

[Mommy2ZaidnSalma 11]

Stef, such a bummer you work for the holidays. Were having all my family over, Im too excited.

I hope you catch some good deals too! Im too excited to shop!

[Eveline 9]

@Chnst: No, not planning on more kids but you never know if maybe one just slips in LOL. No, we've talked about it a few times and while Eric could imagine having one more child I don't think I'm ready to give myself up again for pregnancy and everything after. Don't get me wrong, I had no troubles in pregnancy, loved to breastfeed, had great sleepers, eaters etc. but I just can't imagine starting all over again.

Also I'm not ready to have my tubes tied. it's so final. I don't really know what to do as for birth control. I'd like to avoid any hormonal birth control as my libido goes beyond zero but I haven't heard too many good things about the copper IUD either. AAaaah, decisions, decisions. I don't know. I'm still charting and that works great but every month when AF is supposed to show up I get a little nervous about what if I don't get it LOL. My cycles are very predictable though...very picture book perfect so there's not a lot of guessing.

[Anna C. 4]

Hubbie will be in the bunker for Thanksgiving and return in the late afternoon on Friday.... I am invited to the commander's house who is having lots of people over, but I don't even know anybody there, so I rather pass. I don't care for turkey and Jona doesn't even get what Thanksgiving is, so it's gonna be a normal day for Jona and me at home, with Annie's MacnCheese which he loves and maybe I'll make croissants again (lately his favorite food, but he barely ever gets it, it is time consuming to make!).

I'm going to the Gymboree and Carter outlets close by on Black Friday hoping to score some 4T clothing for Jona... And I want those long sleeved white onesies from Carters in size newborn for the little one. White onesies go a long way to combine for outfits. We have so much stuff from SIL and I bought some too, we are all set, but those dresses and yadayada need an undershirt in our climate! Also, Joanne's will have a nice sale, which is right next door at that mall and I can't stop sewing diapers and changing table covers... They are just soooooooooo cute!

@ Evi: I'm already scared about adding Eloise. It's going to be a chaotic time in the beginning... I don't think I can handle three kids. I do tell hubbie though it really depends on how things work out with two. Jona was/is a tough eater, really strong-willed and talks so little (we had him evaluated though, he's actually way ahead in understanding, social skills and motor skills, they said that's common in bilinguals with a family history of late talkers, so nothing to worry)... Things that frustrate me sometimes. I can only imagine a third baby at this point when the two older ones are in preschool!

I don't want my tubes tied, I'm right there with you with hormonal birth control (plus the side effects don't appeal to me anymore at all), I cannot stand the thought of an IUD... Vasectomy it was is for us, but we have to be careful about the method. There is this very little invasive procedure that apparently fails all the time. The better procedure isn't covered by Tricare but that won't be a problem for the benefits of the whole thing, lol. I think I would insist on bi-annually sperm counts, which apparently are done after the procedure by control freaks like me. But that is all still in the future... So far after Jona natural family planning worked well for us and my cycles were very regular.

Oh and the shopping again... I'm trying to buy a Fisher Price swing, but the prices keep changing constantly which sort of baffles me. Weird. I borrowed one for Jona, we only used it so little, but when we did, it helped us a lot. I don't want to buy a dingy used one at once upon a child for $85 (!!!) without any warranty when I get the new one for $105-115.... Then I still need the Ergo but that can wait til she actually fits in it.... And order some post partum supplies and the oral vitamin K, which is the same place I order from. Btw I had to start wearing my nursing bras, everything else is too small by now. Walmart started to carry size 34!!! Yeah! Cause I got 2 nice cotton nursing bras for 12 bucks... You don't even get one bra at Motherhood at this price!