Sprint says no to 4th Amendment

[slim 1,533]

This one's for all my tin-foil hatters and those who are unimpressed with the erosion of Constitutional Rights in the name of "safety."

Check the website, post comments here. http://arstechnica.com/telecom/news/2009/1...llion-times.ars

[Ban Hammer 14,286]

i wonder where the screams of outrage are by the libs like we saw with gwb about the patriot act.....

[scandal 951]

i wonder where the screams of outrage are by the libs like we saw with gwb about the patriot act.....

Did you read the Ars Technica article? Or do you just like being glib and shooting from the hip?

First off, Sprint's activities go back years. I.e. - spanning the Bush and Obama administrations. They apparently pulled 8 million records over the past 13 months. 13 months ago, I believe we had a Republican Administration. So this really isn't about politics, much as you wish everything was.

Secondly, who's to say "libs" aren't concerned about this?

The guy who first uncovered this story - Christopher Soghoian describes himself on his own website as:

"He has consulted for, worked at or interned with the Berkman Center for Internet & Society, the Palo Alto Research Center (PARC), the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Northern California, the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), NTT DoCoMo Euro Labs, Google, Apple and IBM Research Zurich."

I think he may very qualify as a "lib"

Thirdly, while Sprint's actions may be disconcerting (and I agree - they are), they are apparently legal. In direct contrast to the illegal wiretaps that were going on during the Ashcroft/Gonzales tenures at DOJ. The Bush DOJ approached the telcos to actually record conversations and emails without FISA court orders. This was clearly illegal and a Fourth Amendment violation. The FISA court was established precisely to allow the government to conduct LEGAL wiretaps. Ashcroft and Gonzales willful actions to bypass FISA broke the law, there's no two ways about it. The 2007 amendment to the Patriot Act to bring the wiretaps into compliance have since corrected that situation. I condemn Bush and his two Attorneys General for their lawbreaking, and I applaud them for finally bringing their actions into compliance with the law.

The Sprint data being discussed here is location information - they're working with LE to let you know where you are, but not what you are saying. That is apparently legal according to a 2005 court decision as reported in the Ars Technica article slim posted.

[slim 1,533]

What I really liked about this article was the auther summed up by saying, in effect, "and nobody cares." He knows it's wrong, he knows nobody knows about it, but yet, he also knows he'll still be telling the same story in 5 years because nobody is going to do anything about it right now.

Sad. Truly sad. The apathy shown by everyday (sic) americans is appalling.

[Niels Bohr 72]

What I really liked about this article was the auther summed up by saying, in effect, "and nobody cares." He knows it's wrong, he knows nobody knows about it, but yet, he also knows he'll still be telling the same story in 5 years because nobody is going to do anything about it right now.

Sad. Truly sad. The apathy shown by everyday (sic) americans is appalling.

I don't really care if the government tracks me. If they use that information for sinister things, then, I would switch providers.

[Ban Hammer 14,286]

i wonder where the screams of outrage are by the libs like we saw with gwb about the patriot act.....

Did you read the Ars Technica article? Or do you just like being glib and shooting from the hip?

First off, Sprint's activities go back years. I.e. - spanning the Bush and Obama administrations. They apparently pulled 8 million records over the past 13 months. 13 months ago, I believe we had a Republican Administration. So this really isn't about politics, much as you wish everything was.

Secondly, who's to say "libs" aren't concerned about this?

The guy who first uncovered this story - Christopher Soghoian describes himself on his own website as:

"He has consulted for, worked at or interned with the Berkman Center for Internet & Society, the Palo Alto Research Center (PARC), the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Northern California, the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), NTT DoCoMo Euro Labs, Google, Apple and IBM Research Zurich."

I think he may very qualify as a "lib"

Thirdly, while Sprint's actions may be disconcerting (and I agree - they are), they are apparently legal. In direct contrast to the illegal wiretaps that were going on during the Ashcroft/Gonzales tenures at DOJ. The Bush DOJ approached the telcos to actually record conversations and emails without FISA court orders. This was clearly illegal and a Fourth Amendment violation. The FISA court was established precisely to allow the government to conduct LEGAL wiretaps. Ashcroft and Gonzales willful actions to bypass FISA broke the law, there's no two ways about it. The 2007 amendment to the Patriot Act to bring the wiretaps into compliance have since corrected that situation. I condemn Bush and his two Attorneys General for their lawbreaking, and I applaud them for finally bringing their actions into compliance with the law.

The Sprint data being discussed here is location information - they're working with LE to let you know where you are, but not what you are saying. That is apparently legal according to a 2005 court decision as reported in the Ars Technica article slim posted.

so in short - no change.....and no hope.

[scandal 951]

What I really liked about this article was the auther summed up by saying, in effect, "and nobody cares." He knows it's wrong, he knows nobody knows about it, but yet, he also knows he'll still be telling the same story in 5 years because nobody is going to do anything about it right now.

Sad. Truly sad. The apathy shown by everyday (sic) americans is appalling.

It's LEGAL.

No one is breaking any law.

If you think the law is wrong - write your congressman.

I'm not so sure the law is wrong, or that this activity is so pernicious. Yes, it's a bit "Big Brother"ly to have the Man keeping track of your location by your cellphone. But if you think he's not doing that already to some extent (via satellite, or via surveillance cameras placed all over the place) you're naive. This is just one more tool Big Brother has. And frankly - in an era of 9/11 bad guys walking around, I like the idea of LE having these kinds of tools. It's that age-old tradeoff of personal liberty vs. security. That pendulum has swung - understandably - towards security since 2001.

so in short - no change.....and no hope.

Charles, intentionally provocative one-line throwaway remarks will receive only one kind of answer from me:

[Niels Bohr 72]

The NSA actively monitors everyone telephone conversations, surveillance cameras, email, etc...for years. No one know about this?

[Ban Hammer 14,286]

so in short - no change.....and no hope.

Charles, intentionally provocative one-line throwaway remarks will receive only one kind of answer from me:

so you say......i got a response outta you twice

[slim 1,533]

Thirdly, while Sprint's actions may be disconcerting (and I agree - they are), they are apparently legal.

Legal, sure. But why would they actively coordinate with LE to comply with requests? They have an entire department (which means, folks, if you're paying for Sprint/Nextel service, you're paying for this) dedicated to processing these requests.

Notice I keep saying "requests?" There's a huge difference between getting a search warrant and just "asking" people where someone is. Sprint/Nextel should change their names to Snitch/Narctell because not only are they "helping" law enforcement, they're going out of their way to do so - on your dime.

I don't really care if the government tracks me. If they use that information for sinister things, then, I would switch providers.

It's only OK if they violate your Rights for good things.

The NSA actively monitors everyone telephone conversations, surveillance cameras, email, etc...for years. No one know about this?

Nope. The NSA is still a big secret. So is their new facility out west that's going to house supercomputers capable of sceening yodabytes of information. Every single click or keystroke will be monitored.... but nobody cares because the NSA isn't featured on CSI Miami or any other cool shows like that.

[scandal 951]

Thirdly, while Sprint's actions may be disconcerting (and I agree - they are), they are apparently legal.

Legal, sure. But why would they actively coordinate with LE to comply with requests? They have an entire department (which means, folks, if you're paying for Sprint/Nextel service, you're paying for this) dedicated to processing these requests.

Notice I keep saying "requests?" There's a huge difference between getting a search warrant and just "asking" people where someone is. Sprint/Nextel should change their names to Snitch/Narctell because not only are they "helping" law enforcement, they're going out of their way to do so - on your dime.

You know what? Left and right can agree on this one. I agree with you. It's pretty odious sh!t going on.