Poll: Number of Democrats in US falls to a 4-year low

[nowhereman 1]

If the Republicans are celebrating over this they are deluding themselves. The real story here is that more Americans are getting fed up with BOTH parties; over 30% of Americans don't identify themselves with either party & that is a significant number. Personally I would love to see a strong third party form that consists of independents & moderates fed up with their respective party. I realize this is unlikely, but one can dream.

Why would you ever vote against Obama?

Not even going to pretend to add anything to the discussion joe?

I think that the title is a bit misleading of this thread. What the poll shows is not a strengthening republican party, but a larger disillusion with both parties and the rise of a potential 3rd party. I don't see the Libertarian party as that party because they encompass far too many ideals. There is no definitive Libertarian platform.

Joe is the kid that couldn't resist smacking the hornets next with a stick & wondered why he got stung. Now he trolls VJ making nonsensical comments & gets virtual beat downs. I think he enjoys the attention (even if he loses pretty much every argument he gets in).

[The_Dude 1,142]

If the Republicans are celebrating over this they are deluding themselves. The real story here is that more Americans are getting fed up with BOTH parties; over 30% of Americans don't identify themselves with either party & that is a significant number. Personally I would love to see a strong third party form that consists of independents & moderates fed up with their respective party. I realize this is unlikely, but one can dream.

Why would you ever vote against Obama?

Not even going to pretend to add anything to the discussion joe?

I think that the title is a bit misleading of this thread. What the poll shows is not a strengthening republican party, but a larger disillusion with both parties and the rise of a potential 3rd party. I don't see the Libertarian party as that party because they encompass far too many ideals. There is no definitive Libertarian platform.

Joe is the kid that couldn't resist smacking the hornets next with a stick & wondered why he got stung. Now he trolls VJ making nonsensical comments & gets virtual beat downs. I think he enjoys the attention (even if he loses pretty much every argument he gets in).

I think it is far more likeyly that Joe has Downs Syndrome.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Please stop the baiting comments and the personal insults - they really add nothing to the discussion and tend to derail the thread from the posted topic.

[Nizzy 1]

If the Republicans are celebrating over this they are deluding themselves. The real story here is that more Americans are getting fed up with BOTH parties; over 30% of Americans don't identify themselves with either party & that is a significant number. Personally I would love to see a strong third party form that consists of independents & moderates fed up with their respective party. I realize this is unlikely, but one can dream.

Why would you ever vote against Obama?

Not even going to pretend to add anything to the discussion joe?

I think that the title is a bit misleading of this thread. What the poll shows is not a strengthening republican party, but a larger disillusion with both parties and the rise of a potential 3rd party. I don't see the Libertarian party as that party because they encompass far too many ideals. There is no definitive Libertarian platform.

Joe is the kid that couldn't resist smacking the hornets next with a stick & wondered why he got stung. Now he trolls VJ making nonsensical comments & gets virtual beat downs. I think he enjoys the attention (even if he loses pretty much every argument he gets in).

I think it is far more likeyly that Joe has Downs Syndrome.

sad...so so sad...

[The_Dude 1,142]

If the Republicans are celebrating over this they are deluding themselves. The real story here is that more Americans are getting fed up with BOTH parties; over 30% of Americans don't identify themselves with either party & that is a significant number. Personally I would love to see a strong third party form that consists of independents & moderates fed up with their respective party. I realize this is unlikely, but one can dream.

Why would you ever vote against Obama?

Not even going to pretend to add anything to the discussion joe?

I think that the title is a bit misleading of this thread. What the poll shows is not a strengthening republican party, but a larger disillusion with both parties and the rise of a potential 3rd party. I don't see the Libertarian party as that party because they encompass far too many ideals. There is no definitive Libertarian platform.

Joe is the kid that couldn't resist smacking the hornets next with a stick & wondered why he got stung. Now he trolls VJ making nonsensical comments & gets virtual beat downs. I think he enjoys the attention (even if he loses pretty much every argument he gets in).

I think it is far more likeyly that Joe has Downs Syndrome.

sad...so so sad...

yawn.

[nowhereman 1]

If the Republicans are celebrating over this they are deluding themselves. The real story here is that more Americans are getting fed up with BOTH parties; over 30% of Americans don't identify themselves with either party & that is a significant number. Personally I would love to see a strong third party form that consists of independents & moderates fed up with their respective party. I realize this is unlikely, but one can dream.

Why would you ever vote against Obama?

Not even going to pretend to add anything to the discussion joe?

I think that the title is a bit misleading of this thread. What the poll shows is not a strengthening republican party, but a larger disillusion with both parties and the rise of a potential 3rd party. I don't see the Libertarian party as that party because they encompass far too many ideals. There is no definitive Libertarian platform.

Joe is the kid that couldn't resist smacking the hornets next with a stick & wondered why he got stung. Now he trolls VJ making nonsensical comments & gets virtual beat downs. I think he enjoys the attention (even if he loses pretty much every argument he gets in).

I think it is far more likeyly that Joe has Downs Syndrome.

sad...so so sad...

yawn.

It was a low blow, even given the fact that Joe consistently labels anyone with an opposing view as a "lib" and then makes derogatory remarks about "libs". I guess indirect insults are OK?

[The_Dude 1,142]

If the Republicans are celebrating over this they are deluding themselves. The real story here is that more Americans are getting fed up with BOTH parties; over 30% of Americans don't identify themselves with either party & that is a significant number. Personally I would love to see a strong third party form that consists of independents & moderates fed up with their respective party. I realize this is unlikely, but one can dream.

Why would you ever vote against Obama?

Not even going to pretend to add anything to the discussion joe?

I think that the title is a bit misleading of this thread. What the poll shows is not a strengthening republican party, but a larger disillusion with both parties and the rise of a potential 3rd party. I don't see the Libertarian party as that party because they encompass far too many ideals. There is no definitive Libertarian platform.

Joe is the kid that couldn't resist smacking the hornets next with a stick & wondered why he got stung. Now he trolls VJ making nonsensical comments & gets virtual beat downs. I think he enjoys the attention (even if he loses pretty much every argument he gets in).

I think it is far more likeyly that Joe has Downs Syndrome.

sad...so so sad...

yawn.

It was a low blow, even given the fact that Joe consistently labels anyone with an opposing view as a "lib" and then makes derogatory remarks about "libs". I guess indirect insults are OK?

Joe's lack of comprehension is stiffling on these boards. You try to actually discuss things and in comes joe with his brand of failed logic. Then you get 3 pages of off track back and forth with him with nothing to do with the original post. Joe is the black hole of threads, when he posts, threads die.

[SMR 368]

If the Republicans are celebrating over this they are deluding themselves. The real story here is that more Americans are getting fed up with BOTH parties; over 30% of Americans don't identify themselves with either party & that is a significant number. Personally I would love to see a strong third party form that consists of independents & moderates fed up with their respective party. I realize this is unlikely, but one can dream.

Independents have traditionally made up around a third of the electorate, so this isn't new. The reason you don't see a third party forming is that these independents have less in common than the major parties. Some of them are ultra-right, some are ultra-left. Some are fiscal conservatives with liberal social policies, and vice-versa. Some are isolationists while others are hawks. Try building a coalition out of that.

I tend to disagree. If you look at the voting trends (and opinions) of Independent voters they very often split the difference between the Republicans & Democrats. For example over 90% of Democrats approve of President Obama & less than 10% of Republicans do, while the Independent approval rating is near the 50% mark. Sure you have the outliers mixed in with the Independents but for the most part they tend to be the most objective & non-partisan group IMO.

I think the difference in our opinions comes from the fact that we see the political spectrum differently. You seem to see politics as a single axis with Republicans on one side, Democrats on the other and independents in the middle. Republicans and Democrats try to win over a larger number of independents to their side. In this situation, it would make sense for the middle to try to band together and make it's own party instead of having to bend one way or the other.

I see politics as dozens of axes. There are axes for social, economic, foreign policy, and other issues. Every person has a position on each of these axes (sometimes that position is not caring). People also prioritize these axes with some issues much more important than others. A party is simply people who agree on a certain amount of issues and don't have a large disagreement on issues that they rank as important. Some of these issue seem to be unrelated. For instance, pro-life, low taxes, and a powerful military don't really seem to go together but they all seem to fit into the Republican party.

Independents are a fractured group of people that can't reconcile with either political party. Half of them like Obama, half of them don't. They all have different reasons for liking or disliking him.

Your last sentence is interesting. Non-partisan is sort of by definition but I wouldn't say independents are any more objective. Most everybody has views that are the most important for them when they vote. If those views fit solidly into one of the major parties, they identify with that party. If they don't, they are an independent and evaluate each election which candidate aligns best with their views (Most everyone does, just some people chose the candidate from the same party every time). Independents disregard their disagreements with the candidate on certain issues and pick the candidate that they agree with most of the time, just like everyone else. I don't see a difference in objectivity.

In conclusion, you have to ask what the platform of a hypothetical middle party would be. What are the positions on health care, taxes, abortion, gay marriage, the military, the environment, foreign policy, globalization, free trade, unions, business regulation, the size of government, etc. ? If you can make a coherent platform with positions on those issues that would unite independents, then you could make a middle party.

[nowhereman 1]

If the Republicans are celebrating over this they are deluding themselves. The real story here is that more Americans are getting fed up with BOTH parties; over 30% of Americans don't identify themselves with either party & that is a significant number. Personally I would love to see a strong third party form that consists of independents & moderates fed up with their respective party. I realize this is unlikely, but one can dream.

Independents have traditionally made up around a third of the electorate, so this isn't new. The reason you don't see a third party forming is that these independents have less in common than the major parties. Some of them are ultra-right, some are ultra-left. Some are fiscal conservatives with liberal social policies, and vice-versa. Some are isolationists while others are hawks. Try building a coalition out of that.

I tend to disagree. If you look at the voting trends (and opinions) of Independent voters they very often split the difference between the Republicans & Democrats. For example over 90% of Democrats approve of President Obama & less than 10% of Republicans do, while the Independent approval rating is near the 50% mark. Sure you have the outliers mixed in with the Independents but for the most part they tend to be the most objective & non-partisan group IMO.

I think the difference in our opinions comes from the fact that we see the political spectrum differently. You seem to see politics as a single axis with Republicans on one side, Democrats on the other and independents in the middle. Republicans and Democrats try to win over a larger number of independents to their side. In this situation, it would make sense for the middle to try to band together and make it's own party instead of having to bend one way or the other.

I see politics as dozens of axes. There are axes for social, economic, foreign policy, and other issues. Every person has a position on each of these axes (sometimes that position is not caring). People also prioritize these axes with some issues much more important than others. A party is simply people who agree on a certain amount of issues and don't have a large disagreement on issues that they rank as important. Some of these issue seem to be unrelated. For instance, pro-life, low taxes, and a powerful military don't really seem to go together but they all seem to fit into the Republican party.

Independents are a fractured group of people that can't reconcile with either political party. Half of them like Obama, half of them don't. They all have different reasons for liking or disliking him.

Your last sentence is interesting. Non-partisan is sort of by definition but I wouldn't say independents are any more objective. Most everybody has views that are the most important for them when they vote. If those views fit solidly into one of the major parties, they identify with that party. If they don't, they are an independent and evaluate each election which candidate aligns best with their views (Most everyone does, just some people chose the candidate from the same party every time). Independents disregard their disagreements with the candidate on certain issues and pick the candidate that they agree with most of the time, just like everyone else. I don't see a difference in objectivity.

In conclusion, you have to ask what the platform of a hypothetical middle party would be. What are the positions on health care, taxes, abortion, gay marriage, the military, the environment, foreign policy, globalization, free trade, unions, business regulation, the size of government, etc. ? If you can make a coherent platform with positions on those issues that would unite independents, then you could make a middle party.

Excellent points & I agree that when someone defines themselves as a conservative, moderate or liberal what they are really doing is averaging their opinions on various issues. For example someone can have conservative views on one issue, moderate on another & liberal on yet another (which would average out to moderate). As for being objective I agree with you to a point... there are hard core Republicans & Democrats that vote along party lines no matter what & to me that has a lot more to do with partisan bias than thinking objectively.

[alienlovechild 75]

The two major political parties are positioned to cover most of the middle ground and then extend out but not to the extremes. The president isn't the best man for the job but he's the least offensive to the largest groups of people. He's a consensus of what people want at that time of the available major candidates.

There's no possibility of major third party until there's a major issue or major proportion of the population that hasn't been tapped into by the Dems or GOP. Ross Perot was a man with ideas but no real party behind him with a slate of candidates at the Federal, state and local level. I don't see anyone able to get to even to Perot's level with plenty of discontent with the major parties now. It won't happen and people who bring up a third party don't understand how difficult it is to start a popular political party, raise money, field candidates and push leglislation against the two more established parties that both go back beyond 150 years.