Somebody HELP please...RFE Question

[Lioncub4 4]

I am the US Citizen and my Scotland Fiance and I filed the I-129f back in June. Well we got an RFE today and it says that the divorce decree that we sent in with the application was not proof that he is legally divorced. That we needed to send in a complete copy that shows it is final and signed by a judge or magistrate. Well, the copy we sent in has the ink seal and is signed by Sherriff Clerk Depute and even states on there that this extract is warrant for all lawful execution from here on. So what more can we provide to the USCIS? Divorce decrees are not signed by judges or magistrates in Scotland...so any suggestions?????

[MARM 7]

I am the US Citizen and my Scotland Fiance and I filed the I-129f back in June. Well we got an RFE today and it says that the divorce decree that we sent in with the application was not proof that he is legally divorced. That we needed to send in a complete copy that shows it is final and signed by a judge or magistrate. Well, the copy we sent in has the ink seal and is signed by Sherriff Clerk Depute and even states on there that this extract is warrant for all lawful execution from here on. So what more can we provide to the USCIS? Divorce decrees are not signed by judges or magistrates in Scotland...so any suggestions?????

I am not sure how it works for Scotland, but here in the US, a divorce decree is the ENTIRE decree, and many times people just send in the page with the seal and signatures on it, when actually the entire packet (depending on the stipulations and agreements at the time of divorce signed by a judge) is called the divorce decree and not just the one page with the seal and signatures. Again, I have no idea how divorce decrees are issued in Scotland, but maybe that is the case? That you didn't send in the entire decree? You just sent in the page with the signs and seals?

Hope that you get this sorted out ASAP! We got an RFE (for a different reason) but it doesn't take long to resume processing and almost always, this is the last document they are waiting on before making a final decision.

Good Luck!

[Lansbury 19]

Well we got an RFE today and it says that the divorce decree that we sent in with the application was not proof that he is legally divorced. That we needed to send in a complete copy that shows it is final and signed by a judge or magistrate.

Have you by chance sent in the Decree Nisi and not the Decree Absolute. I think on this Scottish law is the same as English law and it is only the granting of the Decree Absolute which makes the divorce final and effective.

My English Decree Absolute isn't signed by a Judge or Magistrate in fact it isn't signed by anyone just has the Registrar's name type on it. It has been accepted for both my visa and citizenship application.

[Lioncub4 4]

Well we got an RFE today and it says that the divorce decree that we sent in with the application was not proof that he is legally divorced. That we needed to send in a complete copy that shows it is final and signed by a judge or magistrate.

Have you by chance sent in the Decree Nisi and not the Decree Absolute. I think on this Scottish law is the same as English law and it is only the granting of the Decree Absolute which makes the divorce final and effective.

My English Decree Absolute isn't signed by a Judge or Magistrate in fact it isn't signed by anyone just has the Registrar's name type on it. It has been accepted for both my visa and citizenship application.

After a lot of searching on the internet (thanks Google) - divorce in Scotland is very much different from England. there is no Divorce decree Nisi nor Absolute. After the divorce is granted there is a 14 day cooling off period and then the extract divorce decree is sent to both parties. This is a single page document. I am not sure if the "full" decree is available (need to phone the court tomorrow). The RFE asked for the "full" copy of the divorce - signed by a judge or magistrate. Firstly, it is signed by the Sheriff Clerk Depute (no magistrates in Scotland). Secondly, I am not sure if a full (multipage) document exists of the divorce.

Has anyone been through the visa process and submitted a decree extract (single page certificate with court stamp and signature) and was accepted? i am really at my wits end with this

[Welshcookie 17]

nvm...just read your post.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Welshcookie

[Lioncub4 4]

So my fiance called the courthouse in Scotland and apparently the divorce decree he was given is all they give out in Scotland. Apparently he can get another document and I am not sure the name of it, which is like the actual divorce and it states the divorce is final etc etc and he is off to the courthouse to get that. This is so frustrating because USCIS doesn't understand what foreign divorces look like. So we are gonna submit the original divorce decree and this new document and a cover letting stating the fact that this is all that Scotland gives out...any other suggestions!! Grrrrr we were so close to a NOA2 and now this...very very frustrating. Thanks for everyone's help!

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

...any other suggestions!!

Yellow highlighter!

Back when we were doing the I-129 there were a number of posts about the English divorce decree absolute being rejected because it looks like a letter and just has a red stamp on it and very tiny writing at the bottom stating something to the fact that it is final. It was suggested that one highlight the tiny "final" wording line at the bottom and the reference to decree absolute in the title or Re section of the "letter". We did that and got no RFE. As a matter of fact, I used a yellow highlighter anywhere I needed to point out what a document was showing...like dates on credit card statements showing we each made purchases in Harrods on the exact same date (to help document proof of meeting.)

I think you're correct that the person isn't familiar with a Scottish divorce so you might want to highlight on the photocopy any wording that sounds "final". And the letter explaining that's all you get after a divorce in Scotland to point that out to them is good too. And maybe a print out of something you found in your googling saying the same (important parts highlighted.) They just need to tick off that you meet all the requirements and if it's not obvious to them or they are not experienced with that country, they might not recognize something as the proof they need to tick their list.

[david'sgirl 134]

So my fiance called the courthouse in Scotland and apparently the divorce decree he was given is all they give out in Scotland. Apparently he can get another document and I am not sure the name of it, which is like the actual divorce and it states the divorce is final etc etc and he is off to the courthouse to get that. This is so frustrating because USCIS doesn't understand what foreign divorces look like. So we are gonna submit the original divorce decree and this new document and a cover letting stating the fact that this is all that Scotland gives out...any other suggestions!! Grrrrr we were so close to a NOA2 and now this...very very frustrating. Thanks for everyone's help!

Hi, we just married in Scotland in July and we are both divorced. Scotland and US both gave us a decree absolute stating it is final. He got his from a solicitor who handled the divorce and I got mine from the clerk at court house. I'll see if I can find a copy of the actual document for a title but I'm nearly 100% certain it is a decree absolute. It took months to get it.

[david'sgirl 134]

So my fiance called the courthouse in Scotland and apparently the divorce decree he was given is all they give out in Scotland. Apparently he can get another document and I am not sure the name of it, which is like the actual divorce and it states the divorce is final etc etc and he is off to the courthouse to get that. This is so frustrating because USCIS doesn't understand what foreign divorces look like. So we are gonna submit the original divorce decree and this new document and a cover letting stating the fact that this is all that Scotland gives out...any other suggestions!! Grrrrr we were so close to a NOA2 and now this...very very frustrating. Thanks for everyone's help!

Hi, we just married in Scotland in July and we are both divorced. Scotland and US both gave us a decree absolute stating it is final. He got his from a solicitor who handled the divorce and I got mine from the clerk at court house. I'll see if I can find a copy of the actual document for a title but I'm nearly 100% certain it is a decree absolute. It took months to get it.

I double checked and it is called an Extract dcree of divorce.

[Lansbury 19]

which is like the actual divorce and it states the divorce is final etc etc and he is off to the courthouse to get that. This is so frustrating because USCIS doesn't understand what foreign divorces look like.

Which is what they want, the document which says "final".

It isn't a case of them not understanding foreign documents, and in fact why should they, it is a case that we have to supply documentation that satisfies the requirements of the United States. This point isn't made as criticism but somewhere down the line this thread will come up in a search when people have similar problems and hopefully will guide them to what they need to do.

Sorry it has held your process up and given you problems but at least it is easily sorted by a trip to the court and hopefully everything will go quickly from here on in.

[Lioncub4 4]

...any other suggestions!!

Yellow highlighter!

Back when we were doing the I-129 there were a number of posts about the English divorce decree absolute being rejected because it looks like a letter and just has a red stamp on it and very tiny writing at the bottom stating something to the fact that it is final. It was suggested that one highlight the tiny "final" wording line at the bottom and the reference to decree absolute in the title or Re section of the "letter". We did that and got no RFE. As a matter of fact, I used a yellow highlighter anywhere I needed to point out what a document was showing...like dates on credit card statements showing we each made purchases in Harrods on the exact same date (to help document proof of meeting.)

I think you're correct that the person isn't familiar with a Scottish divorce so you might want to highlight on the photocopy any wording that sounds "final". And the letter explaining that's all you get after a divorce in Scotland to point that out to them is good too. And maybe a print out of something you found in your googling saying the same (important parts highlighted.) They just need to tick off that you meet all the requirements and if it's not obvious to them or they are not experienced with that country, they might not recognize something as the proof they need to tick their list.

This is good advice - I would say not just for our case but for others where there is some kind of "hidden" text. Well, I have just been to the courthouse and obtained some supplementary evidence that the divorce is actually final (the actual decree does not state the divorce is final - no such thing as Divorce Absolute in Scotland). But I managed to get the Clerk of Court to draft a letter clearly stating the divorce is final (yellow highlighter at the ready!). I also managed to get the document where the Sheriff (Scots version of a Magistrate) granted the divorce. It is signed by the Sheriff and certified a true copy by the Clerk. I will include a document to help explain the Scottish divorce process for the adjudicator. I really hope this is all which the adjudicator needs as there is really nothing left which we could submit. This is actually more than would be normally required as the divorce decree is the legally binding document which declares the marriage is now terminated and the parties are free to remarry. If this doesn't satisfy the adjudicator then the next stage I guess would be an Infopass appt to explain to USCIS in person. Any thoughts VJers on this last course of action?

[Lioncub4 4]

So my fiance called the courthouse in Scotland and apparently the divorce decree he was given is all they give out in Scotland. Apparently he can get another document and I am not sure the name of it, which is like the actual divorce and it states the divorce is final etc etc and he is off to the courthouse to get that. This is so frustrating because USCIS doesn't understand what foreign divorces look like. So we are gonna submit the original divorce decree and this new document and a cover letting stating the fact that this is all that Scotland gives out...any other suggestions!! Grrrrr we were so close to a NOA2 and now this...very very frustrating. Thanks for everyone's help!

Hi, we just married in Scotland in July and we are both divorced. Scotland and US both gave us a decree absolute stating it is final. He got his from a solicitor who handled the divorce and I got mine from the clerk at court house. I'll see if I can find a copy of the actual document for a title but I'm nearly 100% certain it is a decree absolute. It took months to get it.

I double checked and it is called an Extract dcree of divorce.

We supplied USCIS with a copy of the Extract Decree of Divorce but because there is no mention of the word "final" on the document, USCIS are asking for this. I hope the draft letter from the Clerk, in which he states the divorce is finalised, will do.

Thanks everyone so far!

[Lioncub4 4]

which is like the actual divorce and it states the divorce is final etc etc and he is off to the courthouse to get that. This is so frustrating because USCIS doesn't understand what foreign divorces look like.

Which is what they want, the document which says "final".

It isn't a case of them not understanding foreign documents, and in fact why should they, it is a case that we have to supply documentation that satisfies the requirements of the United States. This point isn't made as criticism but somewhere down the line this thread will come up in a search when people have similar problems and hopefully will guide them to what they need to do.

Sorry it has held your process up and given you problems but at least it is easily sorted by a trip to the court and hopefully everything will go quickly from here on in.

Thanks Lansbury. I know you are not being critical with your advice. You are making sense. I am kinda cheesed off that the Scottish legal system appears to be alone in the fact that the divorce decrees are not stated as "final". I guess this is because in Scotland - a divorce is a divorce and there is no "pre" divorce such as Nisi. Once divorce is granted, that's it - Final. If the decree stated the divorce was final then we wouldn't be in this mess. I really hope our case helps others down the road should they be unlucky enough to be in this mess.

[jellyfish 0]

Hi,

I submitted my own divorce decree (Stonehaven sheriff court, Scotland) It is one page, says Form of extract decree of divorce, extract decree of divorce. Has date of marriage date of divorce. I got a certifed copy from the court house, showed up and paid for it there. Mailed out the next day. It just has a red stamp thing and a signature from the sheriff clerk. My husband's decree is pages long. It still just has a stamp on the last page, and we were warned by the court in California we got it from that it was only valid if all pages were kept stapled together.

I have never had any trouble with my divorce decree. Not a drop. Or with my husband's. I think the scottish one is if anything clearer. Maybe you send a letter from the court explaining this IS the final divorce decree.