Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Please stop the personal attacks - they really get boring after a while and add nothing to the discussion.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Kathryn41

[HYENA 4]

OBAMA LIES! And people wonder why Joe Wilson said that! IT is because he is a total liar. This is ridiculous, how could you do this to people like us that file and follow the rules the legal way, it just makes me want to scream at the top of my lungs! They broke the law, they have no business being here in first place! ENFORCE immigration law now and D E P O R T now!

0f course that is the most sensible thing to do.

Pure faggotry! Obviously no one has any clue about the mere cost that would take and the police state it would cause.

Legalize them and be done with it. We already accept millions here legally.

So easy to have a kneejerk reaction and solve all the world's problems just like the one person who doesn't realize we have a house, senate and veto. House, Senate, President and Judicial to keep things in check. The problem is they're all bribed. No country is free from corruption. America is a kneejerk nation because of the bribes and by the time it really negatively affects the population is finally when they call the curtain on that latest scam.

The president has little power compared to most nations...except the office is expanding powers and cutting corners (private army/blackwater, presidential orders, etc) but even with all that, still far weaker than most presidents.

Edited September 23, 2009 by HYENA

[HYENA 4]

Please stop the personal attacks - they really getting boring after a while and add nothing to the discussion.

Agreed! Personal attacks are evidence of lack of legitimate argument or lack of content. In cases like these; it's best to sit back and read. I make a point and if I can't defend it, I sit back and read and consider something else.

Absolutely nothing is being solved here....it's just chit chat fantasy that no one will listen to and if they do, definitely no one will take action upon. Kind of like rooting for some stupid sports team. i don't bother because someone's going to win and someone's going to lose. Why get excited if I'm not the one actually playing and it doesn't affect me. I can't vicariously exercise through some overpaid athlete like that.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Right now, 40% of Americans pay no income tax. That would no longer be the case. Under-reported income would no longer be an issue. Another 40% according to IRS estimates. Not to mention billions in cash income never claimed by anyone from a waitress to a prostitute to a drug dealer to an exotic dancer...all would be suject to tax when the money was spent.

You are consistently ignoring the fact that the proposed consumption tax would be revenue nuetral, that means the revenue generated would equal what is taken in now. Could it drop, or increase. YES Can it drop or increase now? YES Basing a tax on earnings during a recession is just as subject to losses as basing it on spending. Basing it on spending and creating a better business atmosphere, an atmosphere in which businesses WANT to make jobs, reduces the likelihood of recession. Many of our states operate quite nicely without income tax, many of them would make a fair sized developed country in themselves, why couldn't the federal government? In fact we DID operate without an income tax for more than 100 years through some of our most prosperous and progressive times.

I need to see research on this. Otherwise it's pie in the sky. It still does not explain what happens during a recession when people stop spending, yet still have jobs. A federal GST does exactly what you are suggesting and eliminates loopholes.

I have no intention of following along because everyone else does it. This is the USA, we do not do things like everyone else, we look for a better way...or at least we DID. I do not need to wait for some other country to show US the way, we need to show THEM and scoop up on tons of business before THEY do. Let THEM follow us. Let THEM try to get their businesses back.

You say that with pride, like you actually believe the country is achieving something. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but America is far from the envy of the developed world. The country also no longer ranks highly on many international rankings. Furthermore, this sort of attitude has led to the collapse of pretty much every super power. The average Joe here is actually quite poor compared to average Joe of other developed nations. Have you seen places in the mid-west or around various dilapidated cities that look like 2nd and even 3rd world countries? Is that what you call leading? Or ghetto after ghetto that plagues America. Maybe this is not an issue in Vermont but drive around the country and then come back and tell me you will show the world. Currently you are only showing the world how much of an embarrassment we are.

The biggest disservice being done to the country is people's lack of international exposure and experience; particularly in other first world countries. It's grossly delusional to assume you will lead the way and that America does need to learn from anyone else. This attitude amongst other things is what keeps America back. Basically saying your too good to learn from anyone else; it's freagin ridiculous.

Lay off the Rush a bit and you will see things more clearly. Maybe even take a trip to Aus.

Read "The Fair Tax Book" which is an excellent source of information reagrding the fair tax proposal, S.212.

I say this with the knowledge this country CAN achieve something, not that it is. Our country is currently running off good jobs by the millions with draconian tax codes. You cannot increase the tax burden on rich people or corporations, they will simply go elsewhere because they CAN. They will move their money else where because they CAN. It is pipe dream to imagine we can tax the rich into some sort of higher level of life for everyone.

we CAN be leaders on things and should be where we can. Someone has to lead, why not us? Why wait and see what someone else does. Heck, pass the fair tax with a sunset clause and see if it doesn't work out we will revert back to the oppressive ways, why not? I support trying something NEW and innovative, not digging the same hole deeper.

Rush Limbaugh does not support the Fair Tax, he supports a flat tax, so YOU agree with him, not me.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

OBAMA LIES! And people wonder why Joe Wilson said that! IT is because he is a total liar. This is ridiculous, how could you do this to people like us that file and follow the rules the legal way, it just makes me want to scream at the top of my lungs! They broke the law, they have no business being here in first place! ENFORCE immigration law now and D E P O R T now!

0f course that is the most sensible thing to do.

Pure faggotry! Obviously no one has any clue about the mere cost that would take and the police state it would cause.

Legalize them and be done with it. We already accept millions here legally.

So easy to have a kneejerk reaction and solve all the world's problems just like the one person who doesn't realize we have a house, senate and veto. House, Senate, President and Judicial to keep things in check. The problem is they're all bribed. No country is free from corruption. America is a kneejerk nation because of the bribes and by the time it really negatively affects the population is finally when they call the curtain on that latest scam.

The president has little power compared to most nations...except the office is expanding powers and cutting corners (private army/blackwater, presidential orders, etc) but even with all that, still far weaker than most presidents.

The cost to round up and send back illegals is not possible to pay. You are correct.

So let's let THEM pay for it and go back themselves. END the economic incentive to be here, impose truly terrifying tax penalties on businesses that hire illegal aliens. $500,000 per day per person. When the jobs evaporate, so will illegals and somehow they will find a way back home.

Require proof of legal presence to transfer money out of the country. My wife will gladly show her green card to send money to our son at school in Moscow. No problem. Require proof of legal presence to rent and/or buy a house. If employers can do it, so can landlords. Extend the I-9 to landlords and mortgage companies.

This is purely an economic situation. The risk of hiring illegals does not outweigh the benefits. The risk for illegals being caught does not outweigh the benefits. It is easier to cut off the source of incentive (jobs) and let the illegals figure it out for themselves. As with any other economic situation, take away the incentive and the problem goes away by itself. There are no laws to prohibit the manufacture of buggy whips and 8 track tapes. None are needed. There are no incentives to make them.

I do not criticize the illegal alien for trying to make his life better, it is natural, it is to be expected. We just need to turn off the gravy train. No fences needed, no rules about medical care needed, the rules of medical care become a moot point.

But as stated before, this will not happen and there will be no amnesty because NO ONE really wants amnesty except bubble brained people that think they are helping someone. Democrats will sat they want it (they don't, they benefit from the underclass like anyone else) Democrats want to appear to be compassionate so the legal hispancis will vote for them. All the while enslaving the relatives of the Hispanic voters in the name of doing something for them. LOL Republicans are at least more honest about it, they want they oppressed underclass for cheap labor so they can go along with BS minimum wage laws knowing there is a "safety valve" for business to avoid paying it. The illegals themselves are nothing more than a political soccer ball being kicked about for the benefit of one party or another. We choose which team we like better and root for them, but either way the oppressed illegals will never be anything but the BALL being kicked about.

the nonsense of making illegal aliens legal is designed for the purpose of bringing MORE illegals into the country. Some small portion may be given amnesty under a policy that most cannot comply with ("fines" equal to several months pay for example) and all the politicians will be happy. The liberals will pat themselves on the back at their "compassion" for enslaving a few million more people to work at slave wages in appalling conditions, and the conservatives will have provided more cheap labor so the business can lay off the minimum wage workers and get someone for $20 per day.The new "legal" aliens will demand minimum wage (HOW DARE THEY!) and be out of work, replaced by more illegals lured by the possibility of amnesty. The Democrats will have more people who "need them" , welfare slaves, and the Republicans get slave labor. Everyone wins! Except the illegals still getting kicked around like a soccer ball.

Wow, I now am officially WAY over most people's heads. The problem is simple, the real solution is simple, the "solutions" proposed are purposely distorted for the purpose of keeping the status quo.

And most people chew the government bubble gum and watch the game. Good grief.

[rebeccajo 14]

Wow, I now am officially WAY over most people's heads.

Anyway

Did he say it or didn't he? And why does everyone need RebeccaJo and an array of people to "interpret" what he says?

Did I hear my name?

I was out tiara shopping.

Might I suggest a mirror so you admire that hole in your face?

The one with lips around it.

no matter how many times you change your name, you're still just a socialist from a $hithole country living in a $hithole state. every time you get on a $hitty bus to go from your $hitty apartment to your $hitty job, all in all, you're just another pr!ck in the hall.

You out of your medication again?

[Heracles 417]

Read "The Fair Tax Book" which is an excellent source of information reagrding the fair tax proposal, S.212.

I say this with the knowledge this country CAN achieve something, not that it is. Our country is currently running off good jobs by the millions with draconian tax codes. You cannot increase the tax burden on rich people or corporations, they will simply go elsewhere because they CAN. They will move their money else where because they CAN. It is pipe dream to imagine we can tax the rich into some sort of higher level of life for everyone.

we CAN be leaders on things and should be where we can. Someone has to lead, why not us? Why wait and see what someone else does. Heck, pass the fair tax with a sunset clause and see if it doesn't work out we will revert back to the oppressive ways, why not? I support trying something NEW and innovative, not digging the same hole deeper.

The rich claim they will go somewhere else but that is a lie. They know that if they dared moved to any other first word country, they would be taxed through the roof. They would pay 50% tax and up on income they currently pay 35% here. Don't ever fall for the they'll leave line.

The solution is simple. You don't waste your time reinventing the wheel. You learn from other countries that are doing things better than you. This your not telling me attitude is why GM, Ford and Chrysler are not worth the vehicles they are stamped on. They too had the attitude of no one is going to tell us what to do. In the end, where did that get them? bankruptcy and failure.

[Heracles 417]

The cost to round up and send back illegals is not possible to pay. You are correct.

So let's let THEM pay for it and go back themselves. END the economic incentive to be here, impose truly terrifying tax penalties on businesses that hire illegal aliens. $500,000 per day per person. When the jobs evaporate, so will illegals and somehow they will find a way back home.

Require proof of legal presence to transfer money out of the country. My wife will gladly show her green card to send money to our son at school in Moscow. No problem. Require proof of legal presence to rent and/or buy a house. If employers can do it, so can landlords. Extend the I-9 to landlords and mortgage companies.

This is purely an economic situation. The risk of hiring illegals does not outweigh the benefits. The risk for illegals being caught does not outweigh the benefits. It is easier to cut off the source of incentive (jobs) and let the illegals figure it out for themselves. As with any other economic situation, take away the incentive and the problem goes away by itself. There are no laws to prohibit the manufacture of buggy whips and 8 track tapes. None are needed. There are no incentives to make them.

I do not criticize the illegal alien for trying to make his life better, it is natural, it is to be expected. We just need to turn off the gravy train. No fences needed, no rules about medical care needed, the rules of medical care become a moot point.

But as stated before, this will not happen and there will be no amnesty because NO ONE really wants amnesty except bubble brained people that think they are helping someone. Democrats will sat they want it (they don't, they benefit from the underclass like anyone else) Democrats want to appear to be compassionate so the legal hispancis will vote for them. All the while enslaving the relatives of the Hispanic voters in the name of doing something for them. LOL Republicans are at least more honest about it, they want they oppressed underclass for cheap labor so they can go along with BS minimum wage laws knowing there is a "safety valve" for business to avoid paying it. The illegals themselves are nothing more than a political soccer ball being kicked about for the benefit of one party or another. We choose which team we like better and root for them, but either way the oppressed illegals will never be anything but the BALL being kicked about.

the nonsense of making illegal aliens legal is designed for the purpose of bringing MORE illegals into the country. Some small portion may be given amnesty under a policy that most cannot comply with ("fines" equal to several months pay for example) and all the politicians will be happy. The liberals will pat themselves on the back at their "compassion" for enslaving a few million more people to work at slave wages in appalling conditions, and the conservatives will have provided more cheap labor so the business can lay off the minimum wage workers and get someone for $20 per day.The new "legal" aliens will demand minimum wage (HOW DARE THEY!) and be out of work, replaced by more illegals lured by the possibility of amnesty. The Democrats will have more people who "need them" , welfare slaves, and the Republicans get slave labor. Everyone wins! Except the illegals still getting kicked around like a soccer ball.

Wow, I now am officially WAY over most people's heads. The problem is simple, the real solution is simple, the "solutions" proposed are purposely distorted for the purpose of keeping the status quo.

And most people chew the government bubble gum and watch the game. Good grief.

Great post.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Read "The Fair Tax Book" which is an excellent source of information reagrding the fair tax proposal, S.212.

I say this with the knowledge this country CAN achieve something, not that it is. Our country is currently running off good jobs by the millions with draconian tax codes. You cannot increase the tax burden on rich people or corporations, they will simply go elsewhere because they CAN. They will move their money else where because they CAN. It is pipe dream to imagine we can tax the rich into some sort of higher level of life for everyone.

we CAN be leaders on things and should be where we can. Someone has to lead, why not us? Why wait and see what someone else does. Heck, pass the fair tax with a sunset clause and see if it doesn't work out we will revert back to the oppressive ways, why not? I support trying something NEW and innovative, not digging the same hole deeper.

The rich claim they will go somewhere else but that is a lie. They know that if they dared moved to any other first word country, they would be taxed through the roof. They would pay 50% tax and up on income they currently pay 35% here. Don't ever fall for the they'll leave line.

The solution is simple. You don't waste your time reinventing the wheel. You learn from other countries that are doing things better than you. This your not telling me attitude is why GM, Ford and Chrysler are not worth the vehicles they are stamped on. They too had the attitude of no one is going to tell us what to do. In the end, where did that get them? bankruptcy and failure.

You asked for a source of information on S.212, the fair tax. Hopefully you really wanted it and will not judge the details before learning about it.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Taxing corporations and the rich will just be passed on to the consumer. Hence why cap-and-tax will just tax the !#$%^ out of everyone.

[Heracles 417]

Taxing corporations and the rich will just be passed on to the consumer. Hence why cap-and-tax will just tax the !#$%^ out of everyone.

Corporations should pay a reasonable tax.

Anyone earning over $350K, should pay at least 47% tax. This is not a time for tax cuts for the well off.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Taxing corporations and the rich will just be passed on to the consumer. Hence why cap-and-tax will just tax the !#$%^ out of everyone.

Corporations should pay a reasonable tax.

Anyone earning over $350K, should pay at least 47% tax. This is not a time for tax cuts for the well off.

Again, corporations don't pay any taxes no matter how you tax them. That tax is just passed on to the consumer with higher prices. Always has, always will.

Someone making that high of pay on a personal level, probably owns a company and if you tax them more, will also just pass on the cost to the consumer. No matter how you look at it, you're screwing everyday Joe's like myself.

the 350,000ers already pay 35% income taxes. Thats 122,500 of their income.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Vive le Aristocracy!

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Vive le Aristocracy!

I didn't know you had turret's syndrome. Its good to know.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Vive le Aristocracy!

I didn't know you had turret's syndrome. Its good to know.

I didn't know you were a secret monarchist