President Reagan speaks about Socialized medicine.

[Peikko 1,575]

He also said this about Tory MEP:

David Cameron today insisted that the Conservative party stood "full square behind the NHS" as he sought to distance his party from comments made by a Tory MEP who rubbished the British health service in a series of American interviews.

The Conservative leader branded Daniel Hannan's views on the NHS "eccentric" and insisted he did not agree with them.

Whatever the reality of the Tory position, one thing they know, they will not get re-elected dissing it.

Link

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US. Not one. But you seem to have fun attacking strawmen. Keep at it while the rest of the country focuses on real issues.

Where do you think Obama's health care plan would lead to, theres no reason for employers to provide insurance for there workers. If we go this route it will eventually become socialized.

Medicine will become socialized if we ensure that everyone has access to adequate health care by taking steps towards universal health insurance coverage? How have all the developed countries except the UK and Sweden (who pursued socialized health care as a model) managed to have private health care sectors while ofering universal coverage? Your argument makes no sense nor does it reflect reality in any way, shape or form.

Your pretending these Euro models are solvent and not prone to collapse as they two grow and include more and more.

If I were only able to see 5 or 10 years down the road, I might too agree with these programs but..... we have seen all these type programs not only grow... but increase in scope and authority.

Let me first say that you are going off on a side track here. The issue I addressed was that the notion that universal coverage leads to socialized medicine is factually wrong and not supported by any real world evidence. But I'll entertain your other point.

You appear to be pretending that the US system is somehow on sound footing and sustainable. It isn't. While comparable nations see about 10% of their GDP go towards health care, we are at 16% today and will see health care expenses reach 25% of our GDP in the not so distant future.

It's not hard to understand that that situation will do the competitiveness of the US economy no favor. There was an intersting chart offered by mawison not too long ago that showed that the spending increases over the past decades are almost exclusively attributable to health care. That development is neither healthy nor sustainable.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

HB3200 would never be able to be implemented its vague and would be a disaster! Go try to read it!

Many bills are unintelligible to non-lawyers. What's new? If you couldn't comprehend it, then how do you know it would be a disaster? Maybe you did what the rest of us would do...you took the word of someone you trusted on the issue. Rush perhaps?

Speaking of disasters, go read your own insurance policy. It does not address the games your insurance can (and will) play on you. Been there/done that.

So therefore we should just accept it? Sheesh, gotta love that logic.,

No, you should read it when the final bill has been drafted and when everyone knows what it includes.

None of the public discussions going on right now are factual - they're all reliant on people's assumptions and preconceptions.

He also said this about Tory MEP:

David Cameron today insisted that the Conservative party stood "full square behind the NHS" as he sought to distance his party from comments made by a Tory MEP who rubbished the British health service in a series of American interviews.

The Conservative leader branded Daniel Hannan's views on the NHS "eccentric" and insisted he did not agree with them.

Whatever the reality of the Tory position, one thing they know, they will not get re-elected dissing it.

Link

Yeah I saw that guy on Hannity the other night.

[Peikko 1,575]

Oh, what a hoot, a Labour MP used the term 'slag off'. Excellent

David Cameron today insisted that the Conservative party stood "full square behind the NHS" as he sought to distance his party from comments made by a Tory MEP who rubbished the British health service in a series of American interviews.

The Conservative leader branded Daniel Hannan's views on the NHS "eccentric" and insisted he did not agree with them.

But senior Labour figures condemned Cameron's failure to discipline the MEP over his remarks.

Peter Mandelson, the first secretary of state – who is standing in for Gordon Brown while the prime minister is on holiday – said it exposed the "two faces" of the Tory party.

"I think people will find it shocking that a Conservative parliamentarian can go to the United States to slag off the NHS," he said. "What we see is the two faces of the Conservative party – the one David Cameron wants everyone to see and believe, and the other one presented by the Conservative parliamentarian."

Former deputy prime minister John Prescott posted a tweet on the microblogging site Twitter stating: "If Cameron supports the NHS so much he must publicly rebuke Hannan for running down Britain's most loved institution."...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hannan sounds like a Thatcherite.

Of course... Blair was a Thatcherite too, pretty much.

$hit is that right - Mandelson is acting PM? Jesus...

Edited August 14, 2009 by Private Pike

[mawilson 2,133]

If things are so great in those countries that you people list for examples of wonderful socialized medicine, then why don't you move there? Go to the wonderful utopian Socialized medicine countries instead of trying to come here, or bring your SO here. 65% of us are happy with our healthcare and insurance - we won't accept changing it.

65%, really? So 1 in 3 is unhappy? Not very impressive.

[Peikko 1,575]

It's fascinating really, with the election coming up next year - I wonder if this affair will affect the results?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If things are so great in those countries that you people list for examples of wonderful socialized medicine, then why don't you move there? Go to the wonderful utopian Socialized medicine countries instead of trying to come here, or bring your SO here. 65% of us are happy with our healthcare and insurance - we won't accept changing it.

65%, really? So 1 in 3 is unhappy? Not very impressive.

I bet that statistic is as firmly grounded as the one about Rush's 98.8% accuracy rating (which is apparently "well documented").

[luckytxn 2,265]

Reagan was so right but even he never saw that so many sheep and Koolaid drinkers would buy the lies of Obama the Socialist so readily.

[Peikko 1,575]

Hannan sounds like a Thatcherite.

Of course... Blair was a Thatcherite too, pretty much.

$hit is that right - Mandelson is acting PM? Jesus...

Yes, that's the other hilarious thing, Harriet Harman couldn't handle it, started going all Women's lib and was 'removed'.

There is more from the article:

...

Cameron said today: "I don't agree with Daniel Hannan. The Conservative party stands full square behind the NHS ... We back it, we are going to expand it, we have ring-fenced it and said that it will get more money under a Conservative government, and it is our No 1 mission to improve it.

"As I said at the party conference, you can sum up our priorities in three letters: N. H. S. That is as true today as it was then."

Asked about Hannan's remarks, Cameron replied: "He does have some quite eccentric views about some things, and political parties always include some people who don't toe the party line on one issue or another issue. But no one should be in any doubt: the NHS is our No1 priority ... It is one of our greatest national institutions and we want to expand it and improve it."

Andrew Lansley, the shadow health secretary, said the MEP had done the NHS and Americans a disservice by presenting a "negative and partial view".

Earlier, Cameron sent out a strongly worded email of support for the NHS.

The Conservative leader's message, published on his blog, said that millions of people, including his own family, were grateful for the care they had received by the institution.

Cameron's comments came amid a backlash in the UK over the portrayal of the NHS by rightwingers in America, with Gordon and Sarah Brown joining an online campaign to defend the British system after it was branded "evil and Orwellian" by the Republicans.

Fantastic!!!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

If things are so great in those countries that you people list for examples of wonderful socialized medicine, then why don't you move there? Go to the wonderful utopian Socialized medicine countries instead of trying to come here, or bring your SO here. 65% of us are happy with our healthcare and insurance - we won't accept changing it.

65%, really? So 1 in 3 is unhappy? Not very impressive.

Mark, what would be the scenario if we had unicare now and in five years we experienced a economic collapse such as that of 1929. Cutbacks? elimination? Opinion?

[Peikko 1,575]

It would be so ironic if this was the catalyst that boosted the NHS back up to the position it held before Thatcher butchered it

[luckytxn 2,265]

If things are so great in those countries that you people list for examples of wonderful socialized medicine, then why don't you move there? Go to the wonderful utopian Socialized medicine countries instead of trying to come here, or bring your SO here. 65% of us are happy with our healthcare and insurance - we won't accept changing it.

Actually it is 87% happy with their current insurance.

If they are going bankrupt then they need to be. Running a business or household takes foresight and planning and saving for all eventualities. Strong survive and the weak perish.

[Tahoma 2,298]

HB3200 would never be able to be implemented its vague and would be a disaster! Go try to read it!

Many bills are unintelligible to non-lawyers. What's new? If you couldn't comprehend it, then how do you know it would be a disaster? Maybe you did what the rest of us would do...you took the word of someone you trusted on the issue. Rush perhaps?

Speaking of disasters, go read your own insurance policy. It does not address the games your insurance can (and will) play on you. Been there/done that.

So therefore we should just accept it? Sheesh, gotta love that logic.,

OK...I see that I need to slow it down for you. "...you...took...the...word...of...someone...you...trusted...on...the...issu

e." I hope this made it easier for you to understand. We can go slower if you are still having problems with your reading comprehension.

[_Simpson_ 250]

There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US. Not one. But you seem to have fun attacking strawmen. Keep at it while the rest of the country focuses on real issues.

Where do you think Obama's health care plan would lead to, theres no reason for employers to provide insurance for there workers. If we go this route it will eventually become socialized.

Medicine will become socialized if we ensure that everyone has access to adequate health care by taking steps towards universal health insurance coverage? How have all the developed countries except the UK and Sweden (who pursued socialized health care as a model) managed to have private health care sectors while ofering universal coverage? Your argument makes no sense nor does it reflect reality in any way, shape or form.

So you agree it will lead to be socialized for the average Joe. Thats the point I was trying to make, you responded to the Reagan post saying "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" I think that is a dishonest in nature when we all know were it will lead too. Dems are trying to sell it in that manner too and they really dont give the people of enough credit. Its not looking to good to for the bill, and it seems people get it now if Dems can get it

No I do not agree. I specifically refuted that very point. I must ask, is it the reading or the comprehension that troubles you? Clearly, you haven't understood what I wrote.

No you dont get my point. Your being dishonest in nature if you try to say "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" because we know what this reform bill will lead to. So when I hear the countless people here at VJ and other places trying to get me on board with this bill because I will have other options well it just makes me want to laugh. I know better.