Jump to content
one...two...tree

Like Your Private Health Care? Here's Why You Can Actually Thank the Government for That

 Share

21 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Filed: Country: Philippines
Timeline

For those who think the government shouldn't be involved in health care, they already are. And you should be grateful.

By Paul Krugman, The New York Times

At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob Inglis to "keep your government hands off my Medicare." The congressman, a Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a government program -- but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, "wasn't having any of it." It's a funny story -- but it illustrates the extent to which health reform must climb a wall of misinformation. It's not just that many Americans don't understand what President Obama is proposing; many people don't understand the way American health care works right now. They don't understand, in particular, that getting the government involved in health care wouldn't be a radical step: the government is already deeply involved, even in private insurance. And that government involvement is the only reason our system works at all. The key thing you need to know about health care is that it depends crucially on insurance. You don't know when or whether you'll need treatment -- but if you do, treatment can be extremely expensive, well beyond what most people can pay out of pocket. Triple coronary bypasses, not routine doctor's visits, are where the real money is, so insurance is essential.

Yet private markets for health insurance, left to their own devices, work very badly: insurers deny as many claims as possible, and they also try to avoid covering people who are likely to need care. Horror stories are legion: the insurance company that refused to pay for urgently needed cancer surgery because of questions about the patient's acne treatment; the healthy young woman denied coverage because she briefly saw a psychologist after breaking up with her boyfriend.

And in their efforts to avoid "medical losses," the industry term for paying medical bills, insurers spend much of the money taken in through premiums not on medical treatment, but on "underwriting" -- screening out people likely to make insurance claims. In the individual insurance market, where people buy insurance directly rather than getting it through their employers, so much money goes into underwriting and other expenses that only around 70 cents of each premium dollar actually goes to care.

Still, most Americans do have health insurance, and are reasonably satisfied with it. How is that possible, when insurance markets work so badly? The answer is government intervention.

Most obviously, the government directly provides insurance via Medicare and other programs. Before Medicare was established, more than 40 percent of elderly Americans lacked any kind of health insurance. Today, Medicare -- which is, by the way, one of those "single payer" systems conservatives love to demonize -- covers everyone 65 and older. And surveys show that Medicare recipients are much more satisfied with their coverage than Americans with private insurance.

Still, most Americans under 65 do have some form of private insurance. The vast majority, however, don't buy it directly: they get it through their employers. There's a big tax advantage to doing it that way, since employer contributions to health care aren't considered taxable income. But to get that tax advantage employers have to follow a number of rules; roughly speaking, they can't discriminate based on pre-existing medical conditions or restrict benefits to highly paid employees.

And it's thanks to these rules that employment-based insurance more or less works, at least in the sense that horror stories are a lot less common than they are in the individual insurance market.

So here's the bottom line: if you currently have decent health insurance, thank the government. It's true that if you're young and healthy, with nothing in your medical history that could possibly have raised red flags with corporate accountants, you might have been able to get insurance without government intervention. But time and chance happen to us all, and the only reason you have a reasonable prospect of still having insurance coverage when you need it is the large role the government already plays.

Which brings us to the current debate over reform.

Right-wing opponents of reform would have you believe that President Obama is a wild-eyed socialist, attacking the free market. But unregulated markets don't work for health care -- never have, never will. To the extent we have a working health care system at all right now it's only because the government covers the elderly, while a combination of regulation and tax subsidies makes it possible for many, but not all, nonelderly Americans to get decent private coverage.

Now Mr. Obama basically proposes using additional regulation and subsidies to make decent insurance available to all of us. That's not radical; it's as American as, well, Medicare.

http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/141...nment_for_that/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Canada
Timeline

Thank you. Good article.

“...Isn't it splendid to think of all the things there are to find out about? It just makes me feel glad to be alive--it's such an interesting world. It wouldn't be half so interesting if we knew all about everything, would it? There'd be no scope for imagination then, would there?”

. Lucy Maude Montgomery, Anne of Green Gables

5892822976_477b1a77f7_z.jpg

Another Member of the VJ Fluffy Kitty Posse!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And now we will be able to thank them for destroying rather than fixing it.

Yes, because...(wait for it)....government can do nothing right. Ta-da!

Well, if we have them to thank for private health care and it is messed up right now then yes, the government screwed it up yet again. Hey, just going with your premise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Country: Philippines
Timeline
And now we will be able to thank them for destroying rather than fixing it.

Yes, because...(wait for it)....government can do nothing right. Ta-da!

Well, if we have them to thank for private health care and it is messed up right now then yes, the government screwed it up yet again. Hey, just going with your premise.

Regulations are like pepper on your steak. You can complain there's not enough pepper or there's too much, but don't blame the pepper itself because you happen to not like the steak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And now we will be able to thank them for destroying rather than fixing it.

Yes, because...(wait for it)....government can do nothing right. Ta-da!

Well, if we have them to thank for private health care and it is messed up right now then yes, the government screwed it up yet again. Hey, just going with your premise.

Regulations are like pepper on your steak. You can complain there's not enough pepper or there's too much, but don't blame the pepper itself because you happen to not like the steak.

Well, who passes the regulations? The very people you say we have to thank for private health care. If those regulations or lack of them have screwed up private health care then who is to blame? I am waiting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Country: Philippines
Timeline
And now we will be able to thank them for destroying rather than fixing it.

Yes, because...(wait for it)....government can do nothing right. Ta-da!

Well, if we have them to thank for private health care and it is messed up right now then yes, the government screwed it up yet again. Hey, just going with your premise.

Regulations are like pepper on your steak. You can complain there's not enough pepper or there's too much, but don't blame the pepper itself because you happen to not like the steak.

Well, who passes the regulations? The very people you say we have to thank for private health care. If those regulations or lack of them have screwed up private health care then who is to blame? I am waiting.

Those on the Right will blame it on the pepper...saying that pepper can never be good for steak. As to how much pepper to use, sometimes you got to cook a few steaks before you know just what is the right amount.

Have you looked back 30 years ago as to what changed from then to now with insurance companies in terms of their policies of coverage? There's a paper trail and I'll guarantee you that it has been some form of deregulation or another that has brought us to this point that we are with insurance company policies for coverage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Country: Vietnam
Timeline

So part of this new plan is a low cost government ran health insurance plan. Does anyone know if this plan is an option for large employers who already offer health coverage as a benefit to their employees? Are they going to be able to switch?

20-July -03 Meet Nicole

17-May -04 Divorce Final. I-129F submitted to USCIS

02-July -04 NOA1

30-Aug -04 NOA2 (Approved)

13-Sept-04 NVC to HCMC

08-Oc t -04 Pack 3 received and sent

15-Dec -04 Pack 4 received.

24-Jan-05 Interview----------------Passed

28-Feb-05 Visa Issued

06-Mar-05 ----Nicole is here!!EVERYBODY DANCE!

10-Mar-05 --US Marriage

01-Nov-05 -AOS complete

14-Nov-07 -10 year green card approved

12-Mar-09 Citizenship Oath Montebello, CA

May '04- Mar '09! The 5 year journey is complete!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And now we will be able to thank them for destroying rather than fixing it.

Yes, because...(wait for it)....government can do nothing right. Ta-da!

Well, if we have them to thank for private health care and it is messed up right now then yes, the government screwed it up yet again. Hey, just going with your premise.

Regulations are like pepper on your steak. You can complain there's not enough pepper or there's too much, but don't blame the pepper itself because you happen to not like the steak.

Well, who passes the regulations? The very people you say we have to thank for private health care. If those regulations or lack of them have screwed up private health care then who is to blame? I am waiting.

Those on the Right will blame it on the pepper...saying that pepper can never be good for steak. As to how much pepper to use, sometimes you got to cook a few steaks before you know just what is the right amount.

Have you looked back 30 years ago as to what changed from then to now with insurance companies in terms of their policies of coverage? There's a paper trail and I'll guarantee you that it has been some form of deregulation or another that has brought us to this point that we are with insurance company policies for coverage.

Well OK, who did the de-regulation? Unless you are saying it all happened from 1996 until 2004 and before that everything was peachy-keen then you would have to blame a dem congress for the problems. Remember, the president can't change regulations, only congress can do that. So are you saying the very people that gave us private health care are the same ones that screwed it up?

BTW, I would say bad regulation not deregulation screwed it up for everyone. Now we are asking the very people that made the mess in the first place to fix it? I would say they are incapable of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Country: Philippines
Timeline
So part of this new plan is a low cost government ran health insurance plan. Does anyone know if this plan is an option for large employers who already offer health coverage as a benefit to their employees? Are they going to be able to switch?

From what I've read, employers who don't provide insurance for their employees would pay a penalty tax.

Edited by Col. 'Bat' Guano
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Country: Philippines
Timeline
And now we will be able to thank them for destroying rather than fixing it.

Yes, because...(wait for it)....government can do nothing right. Ta-da!

Well, if we have them to thank for private health care and it is messed up right now then yes, the government screwed it up yet again. Hey, just going with your premise.

Regulations are like pepper on your steak. You can complain there's not enough pepper or there's too much, but don't blame the pepper itself because you happen to not like the steak.

Well, who passes the regulations? The very people you say we have to thank for private health care. If those regulations or lack of them have screwed up private health care then who is to blame? I am waiting.

Those on the Right will blame it on the pepper...saying that pepper can never be good for steak. As to how much pepper to use, sometimes you got to cook a few steaks before you know just what is the right amount.

Have you looked back 30 years ago as to what changed from then to now with insurance companies in terms of their policies of coverage? There's a paper trail and I'll guarantee you that it has been some form of deregulation or another that has brought us to this point that we are with insurance company policies for coverage.

Well OK, who did the de-regulation? Unless you are saying it all happened from 1996 until 2004 and before that everything was peachy-keen then you would have to blame a dem congress for the problems. Remember, the president can't change regulations, only congress can do that. So are you saying the very people that gave us private health care are the same ones that screwed it up?

BTW, I would say bad regulation not deregulation screwed it up for everyone. Now we are asking the very people that made the mess in the first place to fix it? I would say they are incapable of it.

If you believe the Fed is incapable of effectively regulating the health insurance industry then you are essentially against reform, yes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So part of this new plan is a low cost government ran health insurance plan. Does anyone know if this plan is an option for large employers who already offer health coverage as a benefit to their employees? Are they going to be able to switch?

From what I've read, employers who don't provide insurance for their employees would pay a penalty tax.

That should help, because of the tax those companies will lay people off and the government will take in less payroll tax. All it would do is increase the burden on those that are working. Nice plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And now we will be able to thank them for destroying rather than fixing it.

Yes, because...(wait for it)....government can do nothing right. Ta-da!

Well, if we have them to thank for private health care and it is messed up right now then yes, the government screwed it up yet again. Hey, just going with your premise.

Regulations are like pepper on your steak. You can complain there's not enough pepper or there's too much, but don't blame the pepper itself because you happen to not like the steak.

Well, who passes the regulations? The very people you say we have to thank for private health care. If those regulations or lack of them have screwed up private health care then who is to blame? I am waiting.

Those on the Right will blame it on the pepper...saying that pepper can never be good for steak. As to how much pepper to use, sometimes you got to cook a few steaks before you know just what is the right amount.

Have you looked back 30 years ago as to what changed from then to now with insurance companies in terms of their policies of coverage? There's a paper trail and I'll guarantee you that it has been some form of deregulation or another that has brought us to this point that we are with insurance company policies for coverage.

Well OK, who did the de-regulation? Unless you are saying it all happened from 1996 until 2004 and before that everything was peachy-keen then you would have to blame a dem congress for the problems. Remember, the president can't change regulations, only congress can do that. So are you saying the very people that gave us private health care are the same ones that screwed it up?

BTW, I would say bad regulation not deregulation screwed it up for everyone. Now we are asking the very people that made the mess in the first place to fix it? I would say they are incapable of it.

If you believe the Fed is incapable of effectively regulating the health insurance industry then you are essentially against reform, yes?

I am against most if not all federal regulations and mandates. Let the free market work without restrictions. The insurance companies that screw their customers will see those customers go to companies that don't. The bad ones will fall by the wayside. The American health industry is the most regulated business on the planet. It hasn't seemed to have help but in reality it has caused the problems we now see.

Edited by GaryC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Country: Vietnam
Timeline
So part of this new plan is a low cost government ran health insurance plan. Does anyone know if this plan is an option for large employers who already offer health coverage as a benefit to their employees? Are they going to be able to switch?

From what I've read, employers who don't provide insurance for their employees would pay a penalty tax.

No, that's not what I'm asking. My company now has several options. Are they going to be able to add Obamacare to their list of choices or, if it is financially beneficial will they be able to cut out the other options entirely and force all of us to choose Obamacare?

20-July -03 Meet Nicole

17-May -04 Divorce Final. I-129F submitted to USCIS

02-July -04 NOA1

30-Aug -04 NOA2 (Approved)

13-Sept-04 NVC to HCMC

08-Oc t -04 Pack 3 received and sent

15-Dec -04 Pack 4 received.

24-Jan-05 Interview----------------Passed

28-Feb-05 Visa Issued

06-Mar-05 ----Nicole is here!!EVERYBODY DANCE!

10-Mar-05 --US Marriage

01-Nov-05 -AOS complete

14-Nov-07 -10 year green card approved

12-Mar-09 Citizenship Oath Montebello, CA

May '04- Mar '09! The 5 year journey is complete!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
- Back to Top -

Important Disclaimer: Please read carefully the Visajourney.com Terms of Service. If you do not agree to the Terms of Service you should not access or view any page (including this page) on VisaJourney.com. Answers and comments provided on Visajourney.com Forums are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Visajourney.com does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. VisaJourney.com does not condone immigration fraud in any way, shape or manner. VisaJourney.com recommends that if any member or user knows directly of someone involved in fraudulent or illegal activity, that they report such activity directly to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. You can contact ICE via email at Immigration.Reply@dhs.gov or you can telephone ICE at 1-866-347-2423. All reported threads/posts containing reference to immigration fraud or illegal activities will be removed from this board. If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by contacting us here with a url link to that content. Thank you.
×
×
  • Create New...