straight talk about sex

[thongd4me 69]

I think the o.p. will not giving up soon, perhaps he STILL hoping that he can change her. she may be will change but also,there is a big posibility she will NEVER change. so, the o.p. must decide for himself whether he want to stay with her without it, or find someone else who will satisfy and make him happy.

I hope he will find the solution to their marriage

I don't believe anyone has ever succeeded in changing anyone else unless the changee is in diapers.

No relationship is 100% satisfactory, but where my fiancee & I are concerned, I think we both say

"what you see is what you get." One can try to influence the other, but they can only change themselves.

There are areas where she excells and where I want to follow this good example and there are other

areas where she wants to follow me. That's give & take. The follower has to WANT to follow.

I had 20+ years of "hoping she would change" (wife) and she never did, not by anything I said nor by

my example of being supportive and non-threatening. She interpreted my strength to be apathy. because

I didn't go down to her level of verbal abuse. I was guilty, however, of holding too much in that I

should have let out in some way.

If he doesn't let it out he won't get to her. She may not even be conscious of why she is behaving this

way (frigid, self conscious, fearful) but to her it seems normal and natural and to him it's a nightmare.

The worst thing that could happen is for her to play the "lets have kids" card. Been there, done that.

I thought it would change her for the better, mellow her out, but instead she used the kids as a weapon.

He may not regret having kids, but will definitely suffer the dysfunction that ensues if things aren't resolved.

He may have done himself a service by not posting any more, because the answer lies with him and her, not us.

The classic shrink/patient dialog is:

shrink: "Tell me what you think and how you feel."

patient: "I need answers doc and I need them now."

shrink: "You have to tell me your story and by doing so reveal the best course of action, I don't have any answers."

I've logged a lot of time in therapy (wife refused both for herself & kids, but when she finally

tried going, wanted to exclude me from the process). Naturally they gave up after a short time.

Never has any therapist suggested an answer that didn't come from me first. Even if I was thinking

it I couldn't say it or admit it.

He just helped bring it out.

Nice analysis of the interconnected elements, Dr. Phil!

You're welcome.

I'd like to call your attention to an online video from "Happyslip"

http://www.happyslip.com/category/videos/

Click on the box "More Processed Meat"

You will see an American Filipino family all eager to help

out their relatives with a care package for Christmas.

Happyslip, if you don't already know her, plays all the parts

masterfully, like a female Eddie Murphy, but unlike Eddie

Murphy she also plays the piano & guitar, sings like a

nightengale and could win a beauty contest. Norbit she's not.

http://www.meetnorbit.com/

Sometimes it's better for family members not to decide what

other family members need but send cash instead.

I just wish our friend with the difficult choices to find the answers within himself.

[bulaklak 0]

I agree No relationship 100% satisfactory but it bothered a lot for him, his wife being lacking emotion toward him. needless to say it is a big deal to him being 100% satisfied in this area. and it seems like they have this problem since the day they got married last year.and up to now year 2009 they haven't solved this problem yet;and he said he already told this issue to his wife but the wife it seems not listening and just ignored the issue.

not sure until when the o.p. waiting that she will understand on what her responsibilties to her husband, maybe 15 years or more? well..if the o.p. is willing to wait at that longer period of time.

she should know what her responsibilities are before she enter into this relationship.

I hope this isnt too forward a subject, but frankly I dont know where else to talk about this at.

Me and my wife got married in January 2008. The day of our marriage, she was going to go "home" which was 45 minutes away, so she could teach at her school the next day. The only reason she didnt do that is because it affected me so much, on our wedding day, that I cried.

We are together now. To this day I have not seen her naked. When we make love, the lights all have to be out. She wont let me touch her sexually unless we make love, and then only on her breasts. It really affects me....... We go round and round about this.

Is it cultural? Am I an idiot to be so affected? It is affecting our relationship.

Am very serious with this topic.

Thanks

[bulaklak 0]

I don't believe anyone has ever succeeded in changing anyone else unless the changee is in diapers.

I don't believe either, you cannot change someone unless they like it for herself/himself. haha he can only change the diapers, if she's much older than him.

[thongd4me 69]

I don't believe anyone has ever succeeded in changing anyone else unless the changee is in diapers.

I don't believe either, you cannot change someone unless they like it for herself/himself. haha he can only change the diapers, if she's much older than him.

That's the whole point. She's got to want to change but she's only going with her feelings at this stage.

He may be trying everything he can to communicate, but until she opens up they are both clueless.

Just the notion of him saying "why do you act this way" assumes that it's the wrong way

for her to act, putting her on the defensive.

Just about any approch may put her on the defensive.

I don't know if suggesting therapy would also put her off. Only he knows her so he's

got to find a way to get "a penny for her thoughts." Maybe he could start by telling her

how HE feels, not what he thinks she is doing to him. If he demands that she spill her guts

that may be the end of the conversation. He has to take the first step in a non-invasive way.

There could be some heavy Catholic dogma in play, or it could be some history with a family member or friend.

One worst case would be she married him because of pressure from family. That's a familiar scenario.

That would explain why she is so distant. Her feelings are not really for him, but she knows she made

a "vow" and she thinks she is doing the minimum to fulfill that. That's one thing that would be very hard

to get out of her, until he says the words "I want a divorce."

- then she can dump all the blame on him.

...but she hasn't started to help herself.

[spartan 2]

At any rate, you can always file for divorce on the grounds of cruel and inhuman treatment and indignities that make your life intolerable.

DIVORCE is not a SOLUTION to the problem. Marriage is sacred and you know that. You can only divorce your partner if he or she is unfaithful. You can find it in the bible (New Testament) if you wanna read. I agree with you that his wife might have some worst experience in the past that made her to be what she is now. But DIVORCE????? I strongly DISAGREE!!!!!!

[bulaklak 0]

DIVORCE is not a SOLUTION to the problem. Marriage is sacred and you know that. You can only divorce your partner if he or she is unfaithful. You can find it in the bible (New Testament) if you wanna read. I agree with you that his wife might have some worst experience in the past that made her to be what she is now. But DIVORCE????? I strongly DISAGREE!!!!!!

If the person, has NO other solution and he did everything his best to tried to work out the marriage but never getting better for both of them. then may be a divorce is the ONLY SOLUTION to his problem.

Yeah, "Marriage is sacred" it so EASY as it sound BUT the MAJORITY of PEOPLE TOOK advantages of it..... and it is very common in the Philippines a marriage people have LOVE AFFAIR BESIDES THIER SPOUSE. AND plenty of marriage are broken, plenty of spouse ran-away because of cheating, abused etc. this is not only happening in the Philippines, it is happening in the WHOLE WORLD WIDE.

People CAN DIVORCED if they have a VALID REASON; if your Spouse is cheating you over and over, you can divorce him. if your spouse is emtionally and physically abusive you can divorce him. if you are fell-out of love you can divorce him/her and that's a valid reason. all of that are valid reasons.

ALL PEOPLE wanted to have a long lasting MARRIAGE but some people do not try work harder. also it NEEDS TWO people to have a great and everlasting marriage...OVER ALL PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, they do what makes them comfortable and happy.

[thongd4me 69]

DIVORCE is not a SOLUTION to the problem. Marriage is sacred and you know that. You can only divorce your partner if he or she is unfaithful. You can find it in the bible (New Testament) if you wanna read. I agree with you that his wife might have some worst experience in the past that made her to be what she is now. But DIVORCE????? I strongly DISAGREE!!!!!!

If the person, has NO other solution and he did everything his best to tried to work out the marriage but never getting better for both of them. then may be a divorce is the ONLY SOLUTION to his problem.

Yeah, "Marriage is sacred" it so EASY as it sound BUT the MAJORITY of PEOPLE TOOK advantages of it..... and it is very common in the Philippines a marriage people have LOVE AFFAIR BESIDES THIER SPOUSE. AND plenty of marriage are broken, plenty of spouse ran-away because of cheating, abused etc. this is not only happening in the Philippines, it is happening in the WHOLE WORLD WIDE.

People CAN DIVORCED if they have a VALID REASON; if your Spouse is cheating you over and over, you can divorce him. if your spouse is emtionally and physically abusive you can divorce him. if you are fell-out of love you can divorce him/her and that's a valid reason. all of that are valid reasons.

ALL PEOPLE wanted to have a long lasting MARRIAGE but some people do not try work harder. also it NEEDS TWO people to have a great and everlasting marriage...OVER ALL PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, they do what makes them comfortable and happy.

I've heard that "sacred song" over and over too and the Philippines is not the only place where that is prevalent.

My soon to be ex is Japanese. In Japan there is also a time-honored tradition where the couple stays married

to keep up "appearances" and both go on their merry ways with whomever they wish. I do think that takes it's

toll on both, especially where kids are involved. I think my parents would have been better off divorced because

they were never happy together and NEITHER of them fooled around. Being of the old generation we can give them

a pass for not doing that. My 16 yr old daughter has a "bucket list" and #3 (of 25 items) is "Get My Parents Divorced."

You can't fool kids, they are too smart. Item #3 is the ONLY item with a checkmark, even though the divorce is 99%

a done deal.

You might be thinking, oh, things were bad with his wife so he hooked up with Thai hottie on the internet and that

broke up his marriage. Wrong. The marriage was dead LONG before I ever went online. I hadn't had sex with wife

OR ANYONE ELSE for 10 years before I met my Thai fiancee. Did wife cheat during that time? Most likely not.

Did she break her marriage vows? In my opinion yes, because she abused me verbally and encouraged the kids

to do so too.

When I decided to file for divorce, I didn't threaten her with it, I just told her I got a lawyer and she would be served

shortly. Then came the EXPLOSION of emotion, emotion I hadn't seen in about 15 years of knowing her. It was all

why? why? why? and if you want sex I'll give it (like it was something you take off the shelf, dust off and serve up

piping hot). The men in my family have almost infinite patience (reference my father) when yolked with difficult women.

I had just run out of patience, because I realized that all her anger was a result of the affronts committed by her family

members that made her resentful and hateful. When removed from those family members, she had to find someone

to get angry at and it was ME. I tried to work my way around that with oceans of patence and holding back MY anger.

It didn't work because she interpreted that as weakness. When I filed for divorce it shook her up real good.

The reason for the divorce taking so long (September 2005 to the present) wasn't entirely all due to the fact that

we couldn't see eye to eye. My fiancee, although committed to me, has a good job in Thailand and didn't want to

retire at that time and she also had a son that she had to be there for. Now she is OK with retiring and her son

has almost finished the Thai equivalent of Harvard (Chulongkorn U.). I just had to hurry up and try to get all the

t's crossed and i's dotted on the divorce. I thought we could have completed it last September but I had a lawyer

that I had to dump and the new lawyer completed the work in only a few months.

Divorce can be a many splendored thing. For the last year, the insults and abusive language from my soon

to be ex are becoming fewer and fewer. Has she changed, mellowed? I hope so, but with me out of the picture

I think she realized that she could not continue to blame everything on me, especially when I always paid the

support/maintenance in full. I'm sure she heard horror stories of other women who had to go back to court

many times to get what was already agreed on in the divorce or separation agreement. Over time, I think she

is beginning to realize that I'm not that bad and I hope we can continue to have a civil divorced relationship

for the sake of the kids.

Now she isn't angry but all the anger is coming from the kids and she does nothing to rein that in. Once the

divorce is final I will have to devote more attention to that. Continuing to be "separated" but not divorced

is a no-man's land that I will be glad to get out of.

[spartan 2]

DIVORCE is not a SOLUTION to the problem. Marriage is sacred and you know that. You can only divorce your partner if he or she is unfaithful. You can find it in the bible (New Testament) if you wanna read. I agree with you that his wife might have some worst experience in the past that made her to be what she is now. But DIVORCE????? I strongly DISAGREE!!!!!!

If the person, has NO other solution and he did everything his best to tried to work out the marriage but never getting better for both of them. then may be a divorce is the ONLY SOLUTION to his problem.

Yeah, "Marriage is sacred" it so EASY as it sound BUT the MAJORITY of PEOPLE TOOK advantages of it..... and it is very common in the Philippines a marriage people have LOVE AFFAIR BESIDES THIER SPOUSE. AND plenty of marriage are broken, plenty of spouse ran-away because of cheating, abused etc. this is not only happening in the Philippines, it is happening in the WHOLE WORLD WIDE.

People CAN DIVORCED if they have a VALID REASON; if your Spouse is cheating you over and over, you can divorce him. if your spouse is emtionally and physically abusive you can divorce him. if you are fell-out of love you can divorce him/her and that's a valid reason. all of that are valid reasons.

ALL PEOPLE wanted to have a long lasting MARRIAGE but some people do not try work harder. also it NEEDS TWO people to have a great and everlasting marriage...OVER ALL PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, they do what makes them comfortable and happy.

Matthew 19:3-12

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

"Haven't you read," Jesus replied, "that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, EXCEPT FOR MARITAL UNFAITHFULNESS, and marries another woman commits adultery."

The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.

I know it is easy to say that Marriage is sacred but that is the truth.....it is sacred. And I know people divorce their partner for other reason too but BEFORE you DECIDE to get married, "use discernment". If your partner loves God and faithful to God, then you will not end up divorcing your partner. I'm saying you will live happily ever after...of course there will be problems will cross on marriage life but not INFIDELITY if you and your partner know and love God. And that's part of life.

The OP's case is not INFIDELITY......he can work things out.....he can talk to his wife about their sex life and be open to each other. It's all up to him.

Edited July 29, 2009 by spartan

[thongd4me 69]

Thanks for all the replies. Actually I dont give a rip what anyone thinks of me posting here. It is of concern to me and I decided ahead of time I would take the helpful remarks and be thankful that based on some remarks I dont have to tolerate the people I would not wipe my butt with.

Will take all into consideration.

This is the end to the massages I will receive on this thread. Again, thanks for the helpful comments.

Alright already. Too much about me.

I went through Brijo's posts and found this from June 16, 2009, not too long ago:

Posted on: Jun 16 2009, 12:41 AM

Member

Group: Members

Posts: 184

Joined: 24-August 08

From: Tennessee/USA

Member No.: 53636

I love my wife so much...

She is here now, since May 3. She still struggles with not being able to work. She was a school principal, her dream job, and had to give all that up in coming here, and it is hard for her still, but she sure does take it all well. She has her moments when she feels down because of not working and losing her career, but she overcomes that.

She laughs, and that is music to my ears. I adore her. I love her with all my heart and soul. She is sleeping right now...I work late. She was sleeping on the couch downstairs when I came home, but she woke up and came upstairs as I was putting the clean, washed sheets on the bed. I just watched her sleep for awhile. I got off work early tonight, so am awake, and will get some things done here. But it is the most wonderful feeling to know she is just in the bedroom, and I will be able to go there when ready, and cuddle up to her and hold her and breath in the beautiful smell of her hair and fall asleep with her in my arms.

I would have waited any number of years for her... I adore her.

Brian in Tennessee

That doesn't sound like someone who is ready to give up, but we should all wish him well and hope he gets to

the bottom of this dilemma, not to recommend divorce outright but just hope he can get her to tell him what's wrong.

It also seems that (I feel kinship in this regard because both his wife and my fiancee are school administrators)

his wife may have been resentful for him being the cause of her leaving her very stimulating and rewarding career.

In my case, I believe we have resolved that issue, but the final proof will be once she is with me in the US.

In his case, it's something not to be skirted around but explored in order for both to learn how the other feels.

Before I looked at Brian's posts and saw his profile, I thought they were both in their 20's but in fact they are

much closer to me (a really old fart) in age. That would indicate that if something is eating her, it must run

very deep indeed and will be harder for them to resolve it jointly.

Brian hasn't posted since quitting this thread on July 27. He's had many posts since he joined on August 24 2008.

There's no rule that he has to post again, but I hope that he & wife sort things out. More than that we can't do.

[scandal 951]

Why does everyone insist is not a culture thing....

Is she was brought up in a Muslim or Jewish orthodox or many others to mention....that is exactly how female act.

Wrong, just wrong. I'll let others comment on Muslim relationships, I have no expertise there.

Judaism embraces healthy sexuality between married partners and considers it a gift from God.

I suspect similar attitudes prevail in Islam.

To the OP:

I have not seen anyone mention your wife's history prior to your relationship with her.

Women who have undergone traumatic experiences may respond even to a loving partner as your wife is acting.

They may be hesitant, afraid to be touched or seen, and experience sex only reluctantly.

Women who have been raped or abused or otherwise taught to fear physical closeness may need a lot of tenderness and patience to learn to trust again.

I hope this is not the case with your wife, but if it is - you should realize it has nothing to do with her culture or religion, it's a condition that needs your love and assistance and patience, and possibly the help of a professional (psychologist or social worker).

The comments I've seen about her sincerity in your marriage, and whether she's in it just for a green card, or whether you should divorce her -- seem shockingly insensitive to me. Good luck to you in your new married life! A healthy sex life is important in a marriage but it depends on openness and trust between the partners just as much as on the physical part of the relationship.

[bulaklak 0]

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

"Haven't you read," Jesus replied, "that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, EXCEPT FOR MARITAL UNFAITHFULNESS, and marries another woman commits adultery."

The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.

[/color]

I know it is easy to say that Marriage is sacred but that is the truth.....it is sacred. And I know people divorce their partner for other reason too but BEFORE you DECIDE to get married, "use discernment". If your partner loves God and faithful to God, then you will not end up divorcing your partner. I'm saying you will live happily ever after...of course there will be problems will cross on marriage life but not INFIDELITY if you and your partner know and love God. And that's part of life.

The OP's case is not INFIDELITY......he can work things out.....he can talk to his wife about their sex life and be open to each other. It's all up to him.

Are you trying to convert me into your relegion?? thanks but THANKS, I have my own relegion and I know about god. I have no plan changing into other relegion. We know people are not perfect;and no matter what type of relegion you have, it can't save you from SIN.

No offense, but you know what? one of the sign if the person is a truly good person...is to respect other people relegion. don't try to push your relegion beliefs to other people.

there are many people who are very relegious but they often cheated thier wives, and they also do gambling etc... not sure why? perhaps they think the more they talk about god the more god will forgive them that's why they are likely doing the bad things. I'm not trying to say you are one of these people.

[bulaklak 0]

You can't fool kids, they are too smart. Item #3 is the ONLY item with a checkmark, even though the divorce is 99%

a done deal.

Yes, that's true kids are too smart, even they have no idea what is happening with their parents but they know that there is something is wrong. kids should be raised in a healthy and loving family.

by leaving the bad marriage you had, you also teaching your kids that staying in the bad relationship is NOT healthy. it just that you and her are not the right for each other. sometimes people need to experienced lot of trials in life before we finally found a "good gem".

[bulaklak 0]

I love my wife so much...

She is here now, since May 3. She still struggles with not being able to work. She was a school principal, her dream job, and had to give all that up in coming here, and it is hard for her still, but she sure does take it all well. She has her moments when she feels down because of not working and losing her career, but she overcomes that.

She laughs, and that is music to my ears. I adore her. I love her with all my heart and soul. She is sleeping right now...I work late. She was sleeping on the couch downstairs when I came home, but she woke up and came upstairs as I was putting the clean, washed sheets on the bed. I just watched her sleep for awhile. I got off work early tonight, so am awake, and will get some things done here. But it is the most wonderful feeling to know she is just in the bedroom, and I will be able to go there when ready, and cuddle up to her and hold her and breath in the beautiful smell of her hair and fall asleep with her in my arms.

I would have waited any number of years for her... I adore her.

Brian in Tennessee

That doesn't sound like someone who is ready to give up, but we should all wish him well and hope he gets to

the bottom of this dilemma, not to recommend divorce outright but just hope he can get her to tell him what's wrong.

It also seems that (I feel kinship in this regard because both his wife and my fiancee are school administrators)

his wife may have been resentful for him being the cause of her leaving her very stimulating and rewarding career.

In my case, I believe we have resolved that issue, but the final proof will be once she is with me in the US.

In his case, it's something not to be skirted around but explored in order for both to learn how the other feels.

Before I looked at Brian's posts and saw his profile, I thought they were both in their 20's but in fact they are

much closer to me (a really old fart) in age. That would indicate that if something is eating her, it must run

very deep indeed and will be harder for them to resolve it jointly.

Brian hasn't posted since quitting this thread on July 27. He's had many posts since he joined on August 24 2008.

There's no rule that he has to post again, but I hope that he & wife sort things out. More than that we can't do.

Perhaps she had a high expectation about life here in the US. when she already here and figured it out for herself she doesn't like it, she regret and developed a resentment towards him. if she always treated him cold, soon he will develop a resentment too.

I also thought that they are both in their 20's because they are acting like it.

[Road 2 Peace Arch 0]

...I just gotta have more cowbell!!

[Brian&Naty 0]

I hope this isnt too forward a subject, but frankly I dont know where else to talk about this at.

Me and my wife got married in January 2008. The day of our marriage, she was going to go "home" which was 45 minutes away, so she could teach at her school the next day. The only reason she didnt do that is because it affected me so much, on our wedding day, that I cried.

We are together now. To this day I have not seen her naked. When we make love, the lights all have to be out. She wont let me touch her sexually unless we make love, and then only on her breasts. It really affects me....... We go round and round about this.

Is it cultural? Am I an idiot to be so affected? It is affecting our relationship.

Am very serious with this topic.

Thanks

WOW, thats not good. I do note that the Filipinos are far more conservative and they do not seem to have open conversations about sex as compared to here.But even so I would venture she is sexually repressed. It is more than cultural. Perhaps she had stern parents? Perhaps she is a victim of abuse or some type of bad experience that has left her unable to open herself to enjoying sex.

I am not sure how to deal with that. I know this sounds off a little but, uhm, get her drunk? Perhaps try a massage with her clothes on. She needs to "feel the tingle" and release them endorphins thingees. Good luck with your situation.