questions about love and commitment relative to K1 process

[belarus1 0]

Actually there IS another requirement --

(From I-129F Instructions)--

You may file this petition if:

1. You are a U.S. citizen, and

2. You and your fiancé(e) intend to marry within 90 days of your fiancé(e) entering the United States, and are both free to marry

Remember, you and the fiancee actually have to sign statements affirming that intent. So, filing the petition when you don't actually have that intent would be a pretty good case for fraud. Of course the difficulty is in PROVING what your actual intent was at any point in the process ---- a good reason NOT to come on forums like this and discuss your intent if you ARE thinking of using the K-1 as a "trial period."

Nothing about using the 90 days as a trial period is mutually exclusive to the requirement that you intend to marry. Obviously if you didn't intend to marry, then your decision has already been made, and you wouldn't be filing a K1. There's nothing wrong with saying you intend to marry, with a caveat that you want to make absolutely sure within your 90 day period.

Let's see---

"might marry" -- nope, that's not what it says....

'intend to marry IF".... no

"intend to marry assuming"... no

"intend to marry with the caveat that".... no

Let's see --- yep, we ARE writing and talking in the English language.....

Dictionary definitions of "intend" and/or "intent" --- "to plan" "to have in mind to do something" "to have in mind for a particular purpose or use" Hmmmm... nothing really there about conditionals, or contingencies, or caveats.

Although I DO think you've hit upon the solution ---- EVERYone who wants to use the K-1 as a "trial period" should be completely open and honest (which is after all, the "responsible adult" thing to do ) and include this caveat language within their "Statement of Intent". If USCIS approves their petitions and the Embassy issues the visas with these caveats in place -- then more power to them and enjoy the "free trial"!! Anyone out there willing to take that challenge?

if one is truely honest with oneself you know if the situation is right or not. Ive been around the block enough times to know that my initial gut feeling has rarely been wrong. Ive been in relationships where my gut told me it isnt right but my heart and head (not to mention other body parts) said "maybe things will develop". Needless to say they never did.

Just try and imagine once the hormones settle down between you and your SO and day to day life sets in, laundry, grocery, cleaning the toilet etc... and see if you can imagine yourself together.

It sounds cliche'ish but you better be good friends first and like being around each other before marriage is considered.

I met Svetalana online and we had an email relationship for quite a while then phonecalls then tons of sms messages and thats when I started to think that Im really starting to fall for this girl. Seems we were at the same point in life and had similar personalities and expectations. I still remember "sms"ing her saying that if its possible to fall in love with someone over sms messages I have. She called me about a microsecond later and was quite giddy and felt the same way.

About a month later I made the trip to Belarus to meet her and right in the airport we just seemed to "click" and it felt like we had know eachother all along. No awkward moments or shyness, very comfy from the get go. I cant do justice about how it went with words.

We are both realistic and have discussed that many times life and our relationship will challenge us but if we are open and honest with one another we can get through anything.

anyhoo, what Im saying is that deep down you know how things feel. Sure its only natural to get nervous and have doubts but look deep inside and you'll find the answer.

[groovlstk 0]

I'm late to add my two bits to this thread, but to any of you who think you can use the 90-day K1 period as a trial, you should know that those 90 days are not representative of what your life together will be like. When your fiancee arrives, she'll very likely be overwhelmed on many fronts as she tries to make sense of her new environment.

This is just my experience, but when my wife arrived in '06 she behaved much differently than she did when we met on her own turf (and thankfully, I had the sense not to propose to her after a few dates and spent enough time with her before filing my K1 to know this was not her normal emotional state of being). Her moods were mercurial, she was weeks getting over jetlag, she'd turn from affectionate to cranky in moments when she was tired - the list goes on and on. I guess the only metaphor that comes to my mind is your first days of school when you were a child - this time may have been a nightmare and you cried for your mom every morning, or you made some fast friends and had a blast - but in all likelyhood those days were not representative of the next few years.

[baron555 934]

I'm late to add my two bits to this thread, but to any of you who think you can use the 90-day K1 period as a trial, you should know that those 90 days are not representative of what your life together will be like. When your fiancee arrives, she'll very likely be overwhelmed on many fronts as she tries to make sense of her new environment.

This is just my experience, but when my wife arrived in '06 she behaved much differently than she did when we met on her own turf (and thankfully, I had the sense not to propose to her after a few dates and spent enough time with her before filing my K1 to know this was not her normal emotional state of being). Her moods were mercurial, she was weeks getting over jetlag, she'd turn from affectionate to cranky in moments when she was tired - the list goes on and on. I guess the only metaphor that comes to my mind is your first days of school when you were a child - this time may have been a nightmare and you cried for your mom every morning, or you made some fast friends and had a blast - but in all likelyhood those days were not representative of the next few years.

Not to sound snarky, but I think this is common sense. Even two USC's who have been dating and seeing each other in person for months or longer will not have a "representative" experience within the first 90 days. People should do what feels right for them. If that means using the 90 days to "get to know each other better" then so be it. It's not my business to say they can't.

My thoughts only. When the K-1 was invented (how long was that wise one?) the assumption was that the couple had many interactions and really really knew all about each other and the 90 requirement was a reasonable time frame assuming they knew all about each other. Most likely fast forwarding to modern times with the invention of the Internet and the many different and excellent means to correspond and communicate, it is conceivable that a couple could get to know all about each other without ever meeting in person. But obviously there is still something lost by not being able to be physically with the other person.

So the 90 day time frame doesn't allow these two folks to finalize their relationship by being physically with each other.

The best bet would be to extend the time to marry to maybe 6-12 months to allow them to finish their courtship. Just my opinion.

My RW and I have an agreement that within about 2-1/2 months we will make a decision, if not made before. If I say yes and she says no, she goes back. If I say no, then she goes back. If we both say yes, then we will marry. The final decision will be hers.

We both expect we will say yes much sooner!

She knows who I am and I know who she is and she knows what she is in for and what we both will do together in the future.

[Neonred 3,950]

I'm late to add my two bits to this thread, but to any of you who think you can use the 90-day K1 period as a trial, you should know that those 90 days are not representative of what your life together will be like. When your fiancee arrives, she'll very likely be overwhelmed on many fronts as she tries to make sense of her new environment.

This is just my experience, but when my wife arrived in '06 she behaved much differently than she did when we met on her own turf (and thankfully, I had the sense not to propose to her after a few dates and spent enough time with her before filing my K1 to know this was not her normal emotional state of being). Her moods were mercurial, she was weeks getting over jetlag, she'd turn from affectionate to cranky in moments when she was tired - the list goes on and on. I guess the only metaphor that comes to my mind is your first days of school when you were a child - this time may have been a nightmare and you cried for your mom every morning, or you made some fast friends and had a blast - but in all likelyhood those days were not representative of the next few years.

So you are saying they get past the moody and cranky behavior? How long does that take? My wife arrived in March 2006 and I am still waiting.....

[groovlstk 0]

Not to sound snarky, but I think this is common sense. Even two USC's who have been dating and seeing each other in person for months or longer will not have a "representative" experience within the first 90 days. People should do what feels right for them. If that means using the 90 days to "get to know each other better" then so be it. It's not my business to say they can't.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but the entire point of my post is that it's not wise to plan on doing the "getting to know you" thing while simultaneously making a decision on whether to marry her while she's experiencing this once-in-a-lifetime variety of stress.

[slim 1,533]

As much as I'd like to agree with groovlstk, I don't think women even know themselves, so getting to know one over the course of three months is great, but you'll just have to relearn her three months later. And then again three months later.

.... and the cycle continues.

Get married. Don't get married. Whatever. I don't think it really matters whether you know the person or not. I spent the better part of six years communicating with my wife before she got here. I still don't have her figured out. I don't think it's because I can't do it, it's because she can't figure herself out so who am I supposed to get to know?

Three months is nowhere near long enough. Three years isn't either. Thirty, maybe. Check back in 2030 and I'll let you know.

[groovlstk 0]

As much as I'd like to agree with groovlstk, I don't think women even know themselves, so getting to know one over the course of three months is great, but you'll just have to relearn her three months later. And then again three months later.

.... and the cycle continues.

Get married. Don't get married. Whatever. I don't think it really matters whether you know the person or not. I spent the better part of six years communicating with my wife before she got here. I still don't have her figured out. I don't think it's because I can't do it, it's because she can't figure herself out so who am I supposed to get to know?

Three months is nowhere near long enough. Three years isn't either. Thirty, maybe. Check back in 2030 and I'll let you know.

I think we're talking semantics, here. I don't think it's possible for anyone to truly know another person down to the last centime - man or woman - but it's a flimsy justification for marrying a complete stranger.

[BluesTraveler 0]

Hell, my ex was American and I thought I knew her for 20 years. Turns out I had absolutely no friggin' clue who the hell she was.

Talk about not knowing your husband.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/...r+lured+tenants

I spent the better part of six years communicating with my wife before she got here. I still don't have her figured out. I don't think it's because I can't do it, it's because she can't figure herself out so who am I supposed to get to know?

Maybe your wife has multiple personalities?

[slim 1,533]

- but it's a flimsy justification for marrying a complete stranger.

Not if she's smokin-hot!

My wife may have multiple personalities. I've honestly thought she's bi-polar (or tri, quad, quint whatever you wanna say here) because she seems like a different person at different times, even during the same day, same hour, sometimes the span of ten or fifteen minutes and it's like I'm talking to two different people. The more web research I do, the more it sounds like PMDD. (Not to be confused with EPMD.)

But, the weirdest thing is, when we're on vacation or when I buy her stuff... she's normal. Imagine that. A woman who's completely happy when she's at the beach but kind of bitchy when she has to work a full-time job. Sounds like she's crazy, huh?

[johnj 0]

- but it's a flimsy justification for marrying a complete stranger.

Not if she's smokin-hot!

DA, DA, DA!!

[AKguy 1]

- but it's a flimsy justification for marrying a complete stranger.

Not if she's smokin-hot!

DA, DA, DA!!

DA, DA, DA indeed. I usually tell Anna that she's lucky she's cute when she starts getting crazy. To which she could just as easily say, "no, YOU'RE lucky I'm cute!". Da... hehe

It's all a matter of what you're comfortable accepting. I know I'm not close to perfect, and she still puts up with me.

There is a quote that rings true, "If love is blind, then marriage is the eye opener". After having been married previously for 12 years, I'm all about trying to keep my eyes open all the time. I see the imperfections first and decide if it's something I can live with for the rest of my life.

And then there is the smoking hot aspect of it, throwing a wrench in the works like some sort of rabid monkey.

Yes Slim, I'm posting whenever and wherever I can.

[johnj 0]

love is blind

Love may be blind but I am not blind. I like my wife to look good, even when she is pissed at me

[BluesTraveler 0]

even when she is pissed at me

she is cute when she is pissed at me.

[Brad and Vika 129]

They say the outfit makes the woman

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I hope y'all will not mind a sort-of weighty post from a "junior member". There was this whole thread on the K1 forum that caught my attention because it resonated with relationship doubts I have. I want to bring my own questions on the issue to the Russia forum because it seems like a friendlier group of a more manageable size, and there may be some culture-specific elements to the issue. [slim would say I should not have even looked in the K1 forum at all]. Now, how to formulate the questions exactly - I think I will try in numerical format because I am that sort of thinker . . .

1. Is it customary, right or proper in this day and age (leaving aside cultures with arranged marriages) to become engaged if one or both parties are not truly in love yet? That is, it seems to be a perfect match, the physically you really connect, etc. but you have not really had the usual time together honestly for love to develop?

2. Does anyone have an experience with this sort of situation and did it turn out favorably once you did get the time together?

3. Does anyone have experience with feeling more in love with your Russian fiancee than you think they feel in return? I think there is asymmetry like this in relationships frequently, but usually people coming to more equal footing before the engagement happens. But, if you wait to collect enough time together on Russia vacations to work this process through, one or both parties may not be able to wait that long and the relationship can die.

4. In this sort of situation, doesn't the 90-day visa take on a "trial period" quality? I know that this is not the intent of the K1 visa, and it could put undue pressure on the time together in the U.S.

5. Has anyone deferred one or more steps of the marriage planning process until the 90-day period (formally proposing? giving a ring? announcing to parents? discussing time and place of wedding?)? If so, what is it like to be in limbo or to have a quasi-fiancee for a year?

6. If you are in this limbo status where he/she (ok, mostly she's in this group I think) may be waiting for more time together to decide for sure about love and commitment, do you let everyone know about the "engagement"? Do you introduce her as your fiancee?

I know that each relationship is its own unique universe, but would appreciate any thoughts from others on these questions I am struggling with right now.

I can speak of Ukrainians, very similar to Russians (Alla is actually Russian, she wants me to say that.)

1. Many will marry because it seems to them to be a good family arrangment. Russians and Ukrainians are not so much about "fairy tale" love as they are about practical family considerations. I developed the opinion that they are very much "biological" and choose a mate, first, becuse he can be a good family provider and they can live with this all their life.

2. Not personally, but my wife tells me of many. We know many couples in Ukraine that have been together a long time but are not madly in love. They are loyal, caring, etc., just not that gooey lovey stuff, such things were discouraged during the Soviet Union anyway, so it isn't natural, though young people seem to be more open about "love"

3. Yes, I did. Alla is not "vocal" with words about her feelings, but there is no question in my mind she loves me, no question at all, and she even says it once or twice a week. Wooo hooo!

4. No, I think not. You sign a letter of intent before the petition is sent. Some people treat it this way. It is not a good idea.

5. Not really. I formally proposed months before we filed the petition. we got everything in order before filing so there were no surprises later. We never did buy an engagement ring. We told our families. We planned a civil ceremony on our front lawn, not much to that. And I never felt she was a "quasi-fiancee", she was my fiancee.

6. I wasn't in that situation. I announced to anyone appropriate that we were engaged when I returned from the trip where we got engaged.

Neither of us had any problems or expected any with our family. Our families knew about the relationship, Alla was speaking on the phone to my mom, before we were engaged. My mother was not the least bit surprised. I met Alla on a business trip (actually returning from) the age difference was less that that of my mother and father, I had lived there (and everyone wondered why I came back unmarried, so it was no surprise to anyone) We are not children (3 of our 4 sons are old enough to marry themselves...one is married) There just wasn't anything to hide or conceal or worry about.