Possible problem with Russian passport renewal

[mendeleev 68]

Hi guys.

My wife is back in Novosibirsk for a couple months this summer. Among other things, she is getting a new international passport, since her current one expires in December. She wanted to do this inside Russia for various good reasons.

Anyway, her first name is Татьяна. Her current international passport transliterates this as Tatyana. So, all USCIS documents also spell her name this way. Her Green Card has her name written as Tatyana. (In her everyday life, she has always translitered her name as Tatiana and I actually prefer that spelling. But a few years back, after the disintegration of the Union, Russia decided to transliterate Татьяна as Tatyana.)

Now Russia has changed its mind again, going back to the Soviet transliteration, and is insisting on writing her name in her international passport as Tatiana. She is appealing to Moscow but Moscow may not approve her appeal in time. In two weeks, the local bureaucrat will start arranging for issuance of a new international passport and, without leave from Moscow, will write it as Tatiana. By law, Russia has to issue her the new passport within one month of her requesting. (This also seems to be a new rule.)

Now, will there be problems when she reenters the USA if her Green Card spelling doesn't agree with her current international passport. She has arrange for Russia to give her back her old passport, where the transliteration of her name agrees with the Green Card.

I'll be looking for an immigration attorney to run this by, but I will value comments from folks on this board, too.

As they say .... ITS RUSSIA.

[mox 298]

I haven't had exactly this problem, but we ran into a potential problem where her name was transliterated on her plane ticket slightly differently than how it was transliterated in her passport. Nobody at all seemed to care. I think when it comes to transliteration, everybody seems to be forgiving as long as it's one of the known variants. Now if she was a Tatyana and it showed up as Olga, you might have a problem. But especially since she'll have her old passport, it shouldn't be a problem.

[mendeleev 68]

Yeah, Mox, I would tend to agree were it not the government(s) we were talking about. My wife is nervous because a friend/former colleague of hers was denied a visa to the UK (in order to attend a professional conference) because the UK organization that invited her used a different transliteration of her name than appeared in her passport. This friend had to scramble to get the UK mathematics association that invited her to send, very quickly, an amended invitation. We don't know how that is sorting out, since the visa is not yet in hand and the conference is still a bit in the future.

Now, USA and UK are different ... so if there are others with relevant experiences, I'd like to hear from them, too.

Edited June 19, 2009 by novotul

[mendeleev 68]

Well, here's what we're going to try to do.

Tatiana will get a letter from the passport clerk stating that their transliteration practices have changed, and then she'll get someone to translate it (and certify it) other than herself. She'll have the letter, its translation, new and old passports.

Once back in the States, we may request a new Green Card through an I-90 process, stating the problem and asking for a GC with her name spelled as in her new international passport.

Sound reasonable? Unreasonably paranoid? Comments are welcome.

[slim 1,530]

I wouldn't do dammit.

Her Russian passport authorizes her to enter that country. Her American green card authorizes entry into the U.S. As long as they're both valid pieces of ID, she should have no problems at all. So what if there's an I instead of a Y? The name doesn't matter anyway now that she has a number!

Sounds like she's been reading the Russain fiancee forums again too. Have her knock that ####### off. If she really does have a friend who can't get into UK because of a spelling discrepancy, remind her that her friend applied for a visa to visit and doesn't possess a UK permanent resident card. Or a husband in UK, for that matter.

[Neonred 3,573]

I'll go with unreasonably paranoid. Again, no one really cares about a one or two letter difference in transliteration. Did they at least get the new family name correct?

[mendeleev 68]

Her family name is transliterated the same as before. Her biometrics are obviously the same as recorded in her green card. But US border personnel have great discretion and the letter of US law is that the Green Card name is supposed to agree with the name on the passport and now they may not. I won't be there to advocate on her behalf at inspection. While she's never had a problem at entry, she's been more relaxed when I've accompanied her through. (I've done this on three of her four entries.) Both attorneys I consulted with agree that a moderate level of paranoia is appropriate here. Both independently advocate that we secure a letter from the Russian passport authority acknowledging the change in their practices.

Once she's back, we'll probably use the I-90 process to get a new green card whose spelling will agree with the new passport.

I suggest that this is an issue that US citizens should monitor as their spouses renew Russian (and perhaps FSU in general) passports. For my wife, and I think for many of our spouses, the ability to travel back and forth freely, without hassle or intimidation, is a critical part of the whole deal that lets them live with us here in the States.

By the way, Slim, my wife doesn't read any of the forums you mention. She and I do have a recent, real life experience that leads us to be more concerned about US authorities. (I wrote about it in Off Topic a month ago, here's the link: Police Misconduct That incident emphasizes the truth of adage that there are two times one should be frightened of police: when you've done something wrong and when you haven't.) I think most any reasoanble foreigner, having recently been subjected to the police intimidation we experienced, would want to do what is possible to minimize possibility of potential mistreatment by a US authority able to act under color of authority.

[slim 1,530]

First of all, your typical customs guy isn't in the same ballpark as your neighborhood domestic violence stopping "cop." POE authority has a much harder time denying entry to an LPR than someone here on a visa. A lot of that "fear" of being denied at the gate comes from horror stories of folks coming here for the first time, not someone returning to the U.S. after being abroad for awhile.

She is your wife. You are here. You have a right to have her enter, she has the right to enter. What's the problem?

Also, when dealing with the local yokels in the future, DON'T OPEN YOUR DOOR! You can deny them entry whether their names match up or not!

[Evgeniya 3]

I have to agree with slim, it is impossible to keep the spelling on the Russian and American IDs identical. I have tried and failed. I had an old Soviet passport which spelled my name evguenia, and so I had SSC and DL with that spelling, than Russian Government changed it to evgeniya and I have changed my SSC and DL to match that, which was a lot of headache, it was a long process and not cheap. I took my husbands last name, and I had to petition Immigrat Office in Moscow so that they will spell my new last name right and they did, six months later. Now I have a PR card and everything matches, but since they are changing the spelling again, when I change my Russian passport my first and last names won't match again. And I don't care anymore, bz it is impossible to straighten it out. I am not going to petition every five years. I will have two passports when I become a US citizen, and as long as they are valid I will be fine. Who cares if my fist and last name is different? It is impossible to fight buraucracy, we just have to learn how to live with it.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Evgeniya

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Like slim said, I would not worry at all. As long as she has a valid Green Card, she should be fine, even if the Customs Officer notices the difference. The worst case scenario is that she gets questioned about it, but if she carries her old passport too, it will not be a problem. And I would not waste the time or money to appeal anything with the Russian government.

An LPR has more rights than somebody with a non-immigrant visa.

[Satellite 1]

Like others have said, both documents are valid IDs. One is recognized by Russia and the other by the US. Your biggest problem is the airline ticket if she flew in on Tatyana and returns on Tatiana. Since she is departing Russia, which will recognize a Russian passport over the US green card which is not a passport.

[mendeleev 68]

Like others have said, both documents are valid IDs. One is recognized by Russia and the other by the US. Your biggest problem is the airline ticket if she flew in on Tatyana and returns on Tatiana. Since she is departing Russia, which will recognize a Russian passport over the US green card which is not a passport.

Hoping the flight out won't be a problem -- she flying Aeroflot. I'll ask her to talk with them. Good catch, Satellite.

[IrinaNMike 0]

Like others have said, both documents are valid IDs. One is recognized by Russia and the other by the US. Your biggest problem is the airline ticket if she flew in on Tatyana and returns on Tatiana. Since she is departing Russia, which will recognize a Russian passport over the US green card which is not a passport.

Hoping the flight out won't be a problem -- she flying Aeroflot. I'll ask her to talk with them. Good catch, Satellite.

Irina was in a similar position last fall --- flew to Novosibirsk, got a new passport, with 'Irina' spelled the same way but only with her maiden name (the San Francisco Consulate had added her married name to the old passport). Her e-ticket was issued under her married name, so it didn't match the new passport. Aerolflot had told us that as long as the Green Card matched the ticket she would be OK. At each stage on her return journey (Novosibrksk, Moscow, Amsterdam, Portland), she showed the GC and her old and new passports. She had no problems anywhere. She says everyone was primarily interested in the name on the Green Card.

Now we're trying to figure out how to sponsor her son Sergei into the US -- the Russian Federation spells his name as 'Serguei', but I don't want to have to introduce him to people as "my stepson Sir Gooey, from Russia.'

Irina bacame an American citizen on June 22, by the way, and now we are looking forward to traveling together with two US passports, one for each of us.

[slim 1,530]

She had no problems anywhere. She says everyone was primarily interested in the name on the Green Card.

The Green Card is basically a "traveling American" card so it trumps everything else. But they still have to check her other stuff as a formality. Not that Americans get preferential treatment, but everywhere I've ever been they seem to take notice when Americans or LPRs are passing through and do whatever they can to make their trip a little easier.

Now we're trying to figure out how to sponsor her son Sergei into the US -- the Russian Federation spells his name as 'Serguei', but I don't want to have to introduce him to people as "my stepson Sir Gooey, from Russia.'

Just follow whatever spelling is on there. He can spell his name however he wants when he gets here, but in the mean time, just keep it simple.

Irina bacame an American citizen on June 22, by the way, and now we are looking forward to traveling together with two US passports, one for each of us.

Awesome! Good job, Irina!

Nice to see you back on here again too, Mike. Don't be a stranger.

[mendeleev 68]

Thanks Mike.