GM?AIG? Not the first time US government takes control of business

[scandal 951]

I'm currently reading an FDR biography. The following passage relates an episode during 1917 when the US had just entered World War One, and FDR as assistant secretary of the Navy was mobilizing for war. I found it fascinating because it brings together names I know only from much later history -- Joe Kennedy, first chairman of the SEC and founder of the Kennedy clan. And Charles M. Schwab founder of Bethlehem Steel who is NO RELATION (Amazing, right?) to Charles R. Schwab, founder of the brokerage.

I found FDR's chuzpah in this little story quite funny. No doubt our conservative friends see it as just yet another example of a commie socialist Democrat interfering in the marketplace

Joseph P. Kennedy, perhaps an unlikely source, testifies to FDR's decisiveness during the war. Kennedy was then assistant manager of Bethlehem Steel's Fore River shipyard in Quincy, Massachusetts. At the request of the Navy Department, the Fore River yard had constructed two battleships for Argentina. The ships were ready, but the Argentine government was unable to pay, and Charles Schwab, the legendary chairman of Bethlehem, refused to release them. FDR requested a meeting, and Schwab sent Kennedy to Washington in his place.

Franklin received Kennedy cordially. "Don't worry about the matter," he said reassuringly. "The State Department will collect the money."

Kennedy said that wasn't good enough. Mr. Schwab would not release the ships until they were paid for. "That's absurd," FDR replied. He and Kennedy sparred a few rounds, and then Roosevelt escorted his guest to the door. He had been happy to meet Kennedy, he said, but the Navy wanted the ships released immediately. Again Kennedy declined.

When Kennedy reported the conversation to Schwab, they agreed to ignore Roosevelt's demand, and the battleships remained securely berthed in Quincy. Less than a week later, four Navy tugboats nosed into the Fore River yard, loaded to the gunwales with combat-ready marines. As startled shipyard workers looked on, the marines took possession of the vessels at bayonet point and towed them into the harbor, where Argentine crews waited to receive them. A chastened Kennedy stood by helpless. "Roosevelt was the hardest trader I'd ever run up against," he said later. "I was so disappointed I broke down and cried."

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I always said FDR was a Commie.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

That's more than taking control of a business. That's stealing.

[scandal 951]

That's more than taking control of a business. That's stealing.

isn't that what Obama is doing to GM bondholders?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I always said FDR was a Commie.

You see, Ron. These Right Wingers have a Teflon exterior...nothing penetrates.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

That's more than taking control of a business. That's stealing.

isn't that what Obama is doing to GM bondholders?

It's not as blatant.

[mendeleev 69]

That's more than taking control of a business. That's stealing.

isn't that what Obama is doing to GM bondholders?

It's not as blatant.

I thought GM was in bankruptcy. Would have been there a long time ago but for Obama.

When Delphi (GM's ####### child) went into bankruptcy a few years ago, Delphi bondholders lost all, as did Delphi stockholders. But Bush was blameless there, right?

[scandal 951]

That's more than taking control of a business. That's stealing.

isn't that what Obama is doing to GM bondholders?

It's not as blatant.

I thought GM was in bankruptcy. Would have been there a long time ago but for Obama.

When Delphi (GM's ####### child) went into bankruptcy a few years ago, Delphi bondholders lost all, as did Delphi stockholders. But Bush was blameless there, right?

Right - Bush was blameless.

But Obama and FDR and all commie Dems are tyrants

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I always said FDR was a Commie.

You see, Ron. These Right Wingers have a Teflon exterior...nothing penetrates.

Bounces off me, and sticks on you!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I thought GM was in bankruptcy. Would have been there a long time ago but for Obama.

Obama's only been President for 4 1/2 months. Do you consider that a long time?

[mendeleev 69]

I thought GM was in bankruptcy. Would have been there a long time ago but for Obama.

Obama's only been President for 4 1/2 months. Do you consider that a long time?

Given how the GM saga has played out, and the billions Obama has spent (wasted?) there, yeah. GM, their investors, and their stakeholders, cannot have bad enough things happen to them. They have done too much to wreck the economy. Everyone in that picture is blameworthy -- GM management, GM engineers, the UAW, those stupid enough to buy GM bonds or stock. Its been apparent for years that GM can't do anything really responsible or right. They were once my biggest customer, once my employer. I've seen them from a number of vantage points.

I understand why Obama is trying to spare damage to the economy, given the broader mess he inherited. But if there were justice in the world, GM would be liquidated.

[scandal 951]

I thought GM was in bankruptcy. Would have been there a long time ago but for Obama.

Obama's only been President for 4 1/2 months. Do you consider that a long time?

Given how the GM saga has played out, and the billions Obama has spent (wasted?) there, yeah. GM, their investors, and their stakeholders, cannot have bad enough things happen to them. They have done too much to wreck the economy. Everyone in that picture is blameworthy -- GM management, GM engineers, the UAW, those stupid enough to buy GM bonds or stock. Its been apparent for years that GM can't do anything really responsible or right. They were once my biggest customer, once my employer. I've seen them from a number of vantage points.

I understand why Obama is trying to spare damage to the economy, given the broader mess he inherited. But if there were justice in the world, GM would be liquidated.

I just can't resist asking, please forgive me....

Why do you hate GM?

[alienlovechild 75]

Obama's only been President for 4 1/2 months. Do you consider that a long time?

Too long if we're now comparing WWII to Obama's nationalization program. Exactly how private capital is expected to survive when the government is sucking up the resources is beyond me. Housing is going to slow down in refinance and prices will have to drop more to attract buyers. Who cares, right?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I thought GM was in bankruptcy. Would have been there a long time ago but for Obama.

Obama's only been President for 4 1/2 months. Do you consider that a long time?

Given how the GM saga has played out, and the billions Obama has spent (wasted?) there, yeah. GM, their investors, and their stakeholders, cannot have bad enough things happen to them. They have done too much to wreck the economy. Everyone in that picture is blameworthy -- GM management, GM engineers, the UAW, those stupid enough to buy GM bonds or stock. Its been apparent for years that GM can't do anything really responsible or right. They were once my biggest customer, once my employer. I've seen them from a number of vantage points.

I understand why Obama is trying to spare damage to the economy, given the broader mess he inherited. But if there were justice in the world, GM would be liquidated.

I just can't resist asking, please forgive me....

Why do you hate GM?

That's my line.

[scandal 951]

Obama's only been President for 4 1/2 months. Do you consider that a long time?

Too long if we're now comparing WWII to Obama's nationalization program. Exactly how private capital is expected to survive when the government is sucking up the resources is beyond me. Housing is going to slow down in refinance and prices will have to drop more to attract buyers. Who cares, right?

WWI, dear friend. Please pay attention. We're comparing World War One to Obama's nationalization program.

In WWII FDR also took over all of Detroit's production capacity for the war effort, turning out tanks and guns and airplanes. Friggin commie meddler!

That's my line.

Sowwy