Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood dismisses Obama speech

[Nagishkaw 510]

CAIRO (Reuters) – Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood dismissed Saturday U.S. President Barack Obama's plan to deliver a speech to the Muslim world from Egypt as part of a plan to keep Arab and Muslim states divided.

Deputy leader Mohamed Habib said overtures by the United States to countries like Syria and Iran, and recent visits by U.S. officials to Egypt and Saudi Arabia, indicated the speech would be used to further the superpower's pro-Israeli agenda.

"The U.S. administration is trying to use each of these countries individually to serve the American agenda and American interests, in addition to securing, promoting, protecting and guaranteeing the superiority of the Zionist entity (Israel)," Habib told Reuters.

The Brotherhood is Egypt's largest and most powerful opposition group, and seeks an Islamic state through democratic means. It disavowed violence decades ago and is officially banned, but operates relatively openly.

Obama will deliver a speech to the Muslim world in Egypt on June 4 in which he will seek to repair ties that were severely damaged under his predecessor George W. Bush.

"The statements are rosy, but politics is not built on statements as much as it's based on practices on the ground. Let's wait and see," Habib said.

The Brotherhood controls roughly a fifth of seats in Egypt's lower house of parliament. The group played a seminal role in the development of Islamist ideology and political groups around the Muslim world.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090509/ts_nm/...ims_brotherhood

[scandal 951]

CAIRO (Reuters) – Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood dismissed Saturday U.S. President Barack Obama's plan to deliver a speech to the Muslim world from Egypt as part of a plan to keep Arab and Muslim states divided.

Deputy leader Mohamed Habib said overtures by the United States to countries like Syria and Iran, and recent visits by U.S. officials to Egypt and Saudi Arabia, indicated the speech would be used to further the superpower's pro-Israeli agenda.

"The U.S. administration is trying to use each of these countries individually to serve the American agenda and American interests, in addition to securing, promoting, protecting and guaranteeing the superiority of the Zionist entity (Israel)," Habib told Reuters.

The Brotherhood is Egypt's largest and most powerful opposition group, and seeks an Islamic state through democratic means. It disavowed violence decades ago and is officially banned, but operates relatively openly.

Obama will deliver a speech to the Muslim world in Egypt on June 4 in which he will seek to repair ties that were severely damaged under his predecessor George W. Bush.

"The statements are rosy, but politics is not built on statements as much as it's based on practices on the ground. Let's wait and see," Habib said.

The Brotherhood controls roughly a fifth of seats in Egypt's lower house of parliament. The group played a seminal role in the development of Islamist ideology and political groups around the Muslim world.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090509/ts_nm/...ims_brotherhood

Sigh.

Not that any of this is new, but just how does "disavow violence" and referring to Israel as "the Zionist entity" possibly coexist in the same mindset?

The radical Islamic elements which refuse to recognize Israel's basic right to exist use the codeword "Zionist entity" so as not to have to call Israel by name, and by doing so to further delegitimize it.

Let's go through the thought-experiment to logically deconstruct this for a moment.

Israel does exist. It's a vibrant and strong (strong both militarily and economically) nation of ~7million people that has been an independent state for 61 years. For Israel to cease existing would require a violent effort (i.e. an all out war) by its enemies to change that fact. When the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, or Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, etc. refuse to recognize Israel's basic right to exist as a nation they are in fact issuing an inherent and implicit call to violence in order to end Israel's existence. If not immediately then just as soon as they feel the time is right to launch the final violent assault to rid themselves of the "Zionist entity". Disavowals of violence so long as they refuse to recognize Israel's fundamental right to sovereignty are meaningless.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Well said. But you know there are a few on here who will adamantly disagree.

[Ban Hammer 14,302]

Well said. But you know there are a few on here who will adamantly disagree.

[nurse1967 287]

Yeah my husband would be one of those I can tell you that.

[scandal 951]

Well said. But you know there are a few on here who will adamantly disagree.

I will be happy to take up resident status here as a moderate and centrist supporter of Israel.

I am happy to engage with those who disagree. If they're civil and willing to engage in a discussion of the issues, I welcome that. But I have no patience or use for all-out haters.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Well said. But you know there are a few on here who will adamantly disagree.

I will be happy to take up resident status here as a moderate and centrist supporter of Israel.

I am happy to engage with those who disagree. If they're civil and willing to engage in a discussion of the issues, I welcome that. But I have no patience or use אומץ לב for all-out haters.

Fixxored.

[scandal 951]

Well said. But you know there are a few on here who will adamantly disagree.

I will be happy to take up resident status here as a moderate and centrist supporter of Israel.

I am happy to engage with those who disagree. If they're civil and willing to engage in a discussion of the issues, I welcome that. But I have no patience or use אומץ לב for all-out haters.

Fixxored.

LOL. Yeah, I have אומץ all right (courage).

I just have no סבלנות (patience) for the ממזרים. (mamzers)

[Nagishkaw 510]

Now how did I guess that?

[Ban Hammer 14,302]

Well said. But you know there are a few on here who will adamantly disagree.

I will be happy to take up resident status here as a moderate and centrist supporter of Israel.

I am happy to engage with those who disagree. If they're civil and willing to engage in a discussion of the issues, I welcome that. But I have no patience or use for all-out haters.

just draw a bulls eye on yourself, why don'tcha?

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

For me it goes back to that grade school saying for every finger you point at another there are three pointing back at you "Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria." Some of them have horrid human rights and women and children rights issues that operate in back to the dark ages. All the intelligent people flee these countries leaving the fanatics to their own devices for governing and the innocent civilians become their unsuspecting victims to these sick and twisted ideologies. One of the countries mentioned has a 32 page governmental book on stones and how to stone people to death.

Anyways if they name the city I would like to see the President speak and would ask Waleed to go with me on June 4th. I suspect it will be in Cairo or Sharm. I know Morocco really had their hopes he would pick them because they were the first country in the world to recognize the United States as a sovereign country but I can understand why Obama picked Egypt. It is the land bridge between the Middle East and North Africa, all the Arab States, and it is the most populace Arab State in addition to being a critical ally to the United States and Israel and the peace process there.

I am wary of the new governmental regime in Israel right now though from what I have read about them he is at odds with the Egyptian President and is not willing to make another state for the Palestinian's as proposed prior by Presidents. A state for them seems to be critical for peace in the Middle East as it is the root of many of the issues these groups are warring over.

Edited May 9, 2009 by ~Flower~

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Along the topic: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/world/mi...?ref=middleeast

[c_and_a 0]

My sympathies are much more with the Palestinian people than they are for the state of Israel.

At the same time, the actions Arab states and the Palestinian elite throughout the past 100 years or so almost as reprehensible as those of the Zionists. There are no good guys in this story.

[scandal 951]

just draw a bulls eye on yourself, why don'tcha?

I am wary of the new governmental regime in Israel right now though from what I have read about them he is at odds with the Egyptian President and is not willing to make another state for the Palestinian's as proposed prior by Presidents. A state for them seems to be critical for peace in the Middle East as it is the root of many of the issues these groups are warring over.

Yes. The new government in Israel is a right wing coalition which Netanyahu formed partly due to his own Likud ideology but mostly due to the fractious nature of domestic Israeli politics. It is very hard to form a centrist coalition there, esp. in the recent period. I too am concerned about the path this new government will lead Israel down. I would have preferred that Tzipi Livni would have won a strong mandate for the Kadimah party in the last election and had been able to form a government. But that is not the popular sentiment in the electorate at this time.

My sympathies are much more with the Palestinian people than they are for the state of Israel.

At the same time, the actions Arab states and the Palestinian elite throughout the past 100 years or so almost as reprehensible as those of the Zionists. There are no good guys in this story.

I have sympathies for the Palestinians as well. Many of them are civilians who simply want to lead a normal life and have been trapped in a historic struggle over a small piece of territory. Their own leadership has sold them out many times over the years.

When you write the phrase "... as those of the Zionists" I am not sure if you recognize that that is an inflammatory remark. The word Zionist is in itself not a bad one. I am a Zionist - the word, when used with a positive connotation, implies one who believes in the inherent right of the Jewish people to a state of their own in their historic homeland after 2000 years of Diaspora and longing to return to that ancient homeland. However when used in the context of the Israeli/Palestinian dispute as a way to castigate Israel (as you appear to be doing) the word Zionist has become a code word for those who consider Israel as a pariah state, an apartheid and racist state with no legitimacy. It's a thinly veiled way for such people to claim to be anti-Israel without being anti-semitic. You're on thin ice using that word in the context you've used it.

And, I also disagree with your last sentence. There ARE good guys in this story. There are moderates on both sides who truly do want to find a peaceful and lasting resolution to the dispute. I'd like to think I'm one of those. It's very difficult and discouraging to be a moderate in that part of the world, since the extremists seem to have a way of dominating the agenda. But if you give up hope, there will be no hope. Millions of people there are depending upon some hope for a resolution. To say that there are no good guys is defeatist and is denying the good intentions of those who have courageously stood for peace and dialogue in the region.

[Nagishkaw 510]

My sympathies are much more with the Palestinian people than they are for the state of Israel.

At the same time, the actions Arab states and the Palestinian elite throughout the past 100 years or so almost as reprehensible as those of the Zionists. There are no good guys in this story.

You forgot to include ' hillbillies ' .

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...5824&st=120

Edited May 10, 2009 by Nagishkaw