New Card Ordered

[Cliff_Ksenia 0]

Card ordered! Now for Citizenship. Eligible to apply 4/20/09.

[slim 1,514]

Does she want to apply?

[Cliff_Ksenia 0]

Does she want to apply?

YES! Other than the cost we see no down side to it.

[slim 1,514]

What is the upside to it?

I can understand folks not wanting to go through the process every ten years, but I could never see myself becoming a citizen of another country. I know inside every foreigner there's an American just waiting to get out, but my wife hasn't really expressed interest and I understand why. What's the motivation for you guys?

[Nasturtium 500]

What is the upside to it?

I can understand folks not wanting to go through the process every ten years, but I could never see myself becoming a citizen of another country. I know inside every foreigner there's an American just waiting to get out, but my wife hasn't really expressed interest and I understand why. What's the motivation for you guys?

How easy is it for Russians to get a tourist visa? If it's easy I also wouldn't see much upside to it. I know we're moving back to Jordan after a couple of years, and he'll eventually have to give up his LPR status.. so we're going to go through citizenship because of travel considerations. Basically it's impossible for them to get a tourist visa unless they are old and female (of which he's neither, and although he will beome old soon enough, I imagine we'll be waiting forever for him to turn into a woman), and also he can't visit anywhere else either without major visa processes, and it's a giant PITA. Many a MENA in-law has been barred even though they have medical emergencies. So we have a reason that it makes things easier. If it doesn't matter, then no real point.

[mox 298]

What is the upside to it?

I can understand folks not wanting to go through the process every ten years, but I could never see myself becoming a citizen of another country. I know inside every foreigner there's an American just waiting to get out, but my wife hasn't really expressed interest and I understand why. What's the motivation for you guys?

So I've been looking into the whole citizenship thing lately, and agree that there really is no downside. As long as she travels back to Russia on her Russian passport, she can hold the dual citizenship with no problem.

The upside is that she gets all the benefits of being an American citizen, including (as you pointed out) not ever having to deal with immigration bullsh*t again. More importantly, if she's ever charged with a crime they won't be able to just deport her. I think that's huge. Yes, it's very unlikely to happen, but people get caught up on the wrong side of the law all the time, through no fault of their own, and sometimes the government sees that it's cheaper and easier to just boot them out of the country.

Some more benefits: she can hold Federal jobs (and political office if she ever wanted to do that), she is eligible for some levels of security clearances, she can bring family members over with much less hassle, she can receive social security benefits (get it while you can!), and she can enter and exit the US with absolute certainty of not being turned away at the border, which is something even her green card doesn't guarantee.

And I'm not sure about this one...are there any firearm laws that affect her as a non-USC vs a USC?

[Nasturtium 500]

What is the upside to it?

I can understand folks not wanting to go through the process every ten years, but I could never see myself becoming a citizen of another country. I know inside every foreigner there's an American just waiting to get out, but my wife hasn't really expressed interest and I understand why. What's the motivation for you guys?

So I've been looking into the whole citizenship thing lately, and agree that there really is no downside. As long as she travels back to Russia on her Russian passport, she can hold the dual citizenship with no problem.

The upside is that she gets all the benefits of being an American citizen, including (as you pointed out) not ever having to deal with immigration bullsh*t again. More importantly, if she's ever charged with a crime they won't be able to just deport her. I think that's huge. Yes, it's very unlikely to happen, but people get caught up on the wrong side of the law all the time, through no fault of their own, and sometimes the government sees that it's cheaper and easier to just boot them out of the country.

Some more benefits: she can hold Federal jobs (and political office if she ever wanted to do that), she is eligible for some levels of security clearances, she can bring family members over with much less hassle, she can receive social security benefits (get it while you can!), and she can enter and exit the US with absolute certainty of not being turned away at the border, which is something even her green card doesn't guarantee.

And I'm not sure about this one...are there any firearm laws that affect her as a non-USC vs a USC?

From our side as the USC (original one), we get a benefit too-- it unhooks you from your afadavit of support. We would all love to believe we have fairytale marriages, but it's not always the case... and being responsible for another person even after a divorce is kind of frightening.

I am not sure if a non-USC has the right to bear arms. I've heard that non-USCs cannot be law enforcement (but I am not sure if that's true or not). it could have something to do with the inability to bear arms.. but honestly, no idea.

[slim 1,514]

So I've been looking into the whole citizenship thing lately, and agree that there really is no downside. As long as she travels back to Russia on her Russian passport, she can hold the dual citizenship with no problem.

Wouldn't Russian travel be exactly the same with a greencard? (Provided she wasn't gone for too long? In our case, there'd be no such thing as "gone for too long" unless we were going to move there. She's "American" now. Her life is here. Her future is here. Going to Russia would be for a "visit." For us, there's nothing temporary about her coming here or no real possibility of prolonged Russian stay. We kind of took the immigration thing seriously.)

The upside is that she gets all the benefits of being an American citizen, including (as you pointed out) not ever having to deal with immigration bullsh*t again. More importantly, if she's ever charged with a crime they won't be able to just deport her. I think that's huge. Yes, it's very unlikely to happen, but people get caught up on the wrong side of the law all the time, through no fault of their own, and sometimes the government sees that it's cheaper and easier to just boot them out of the country

LPRs have, arguably, more rights to due process than USCs do. (Especially when the media or Congressman gets involved!)

Some more benefits: she can hold Federal jobs (and political office if she ever wanted to do that), she is eligible for some levels of security clearances, she can bring family members over with much less hassle, she can receive social security benefits (get it while you can!), and she can enter and exit the US with absolute certainty of not being turned away at the border, which is something even her green card doesn't guarantee.

I've never really been one of those folks who was worried about the "what if?" when it comes to border entry/exit or getting caught up in some kind of govt. fiasco concerning her being deported or denied entry. One thing that is nice about USCIS is the rules are very clear cut and as long as you're jumping through the hoops they want you to jump through, you'll have ZERO problems. Some folks take it so far as (and you may remember this thread) being concerned if there were a war to break out, would your S/O be deported? I've never even given any of that stuff a second thought because as long as she's current, and we're legally married, she's my wife. I'm a USC and my Rights apply to her as well since we're married. (Don't go arguing this one because I'll remind you that the 2nd Amendment guarantees our Rights!)

Her family had absolutely no hassle obtaining a visa to visit. Once again, this was for a "visit" because they live in Russia and she lives here. They have no desire to come here long term because their life is there.

Social Security is based on working and paying, not immigration status. Hell, even illegals get Social Security!

As for her holding a Federal job or getting a security clearance..... with Obama, anything is possible! I don't ever see her desiring anything remotely related to govt. work and can't think of any jobs desirable enough for her to acquire citizenship.

And I'm not sure about this one...are there any firearm laws that affect her as a non-USC vs a USC?

Nope. LPR is game! (The same laws that apply to USCs also apply to LPRs but there's no "special" stuff just because someone isn't a citizen.)

From our side as the USC (original one), we get a benefit too-- it unhooks you from your afadavit of support. We would all love to believe we have fairytale marriages, but it's not always the case... and being responsible for another person even after a divorce is kind of frightening.

I can understand being responsible for a Greyhound ticket and a one-way trip on Aeroflot (or Emirates!) but as for actually "supporting" someone who came here to be married to me and then chose to not be married anymore, well, that person can kiss my @$$ and do their best to win any monetary payment in divorce court. If it's a case of "normal" divorce (both entered into marriage in good faith and it just didn't work out) then it would be handled by state court anyway, not USCIS. Once again, I don't see this as the big bad govt. agency reserving the right to ruin my life because I did a K-1 visa. I see this as "hoops to jump through" if necessary.

I am not sure if a non-USC has the right to bear arms. I've heard that non-USCs cannot be law enforcement (but I am not sure if that's true or not). it could have something to do with the inability to bear arms.. but honestly, no idea.

Right is a tricky subject for non-USCs because Constitutional Rights aren't "guaranteed" to non-USCs but they are covered under United States Code. LPRs have the legal "right" to possess firearms while legally residing in the U.S. As above though, they are subject to the same laws, rules and regulations as USCs.

Law Enforcement guidelines are usually set at the state level and from what I've observed, 99.9% of LE departments require their sworn peace officers (actual cops who carry a badge and a gun) to be USCs. Sometimes though, they'll allow LPRs to start the process, provided they naturalize within a certain time frame. Often, LPRs who are interested in pursuing a career in law enforcement will become community relations officers (who may carry guns and sometimes even have arrest powers, etc.) campus security officers, animal control, corrections, or some other "non-sworn" LE position. State and local laws vary greatly on who can and can't carry a gun in the line of duty.

However, bottom line is anyone with a current greencard (who hasn't been convicted of a felony, misdemeanor domestic violence, or certain drug and alcohol-related crimes) can legally possess a firearm. And they should! I have 1,000 times more respect for a pro-2A LPR than an anti-2A USC. Reason being? Anyone who supports (and defends!) our Constitution is more of an American than someone who tramples on it or, worse, disregards it. Apathy is appalling.

Buy a rifle. If you have a rifle, learn to use it. I would include a shameless plug for my non-profit right now, but TOS dictates I refrain. If you're interested in 2A-related things, feel free to post them here or PM me. Or, if you're anti-2A, please share also. I'd much rather change your mind in times of peace, help educate and train you, be proud to know there's one more "American" (USC or LPR!) in this great nation of ours, than the alternative. (Take the bait.... take the bait....... "but slim, what's the alternative?") Do a search on toothbrushes and rape victims.

Never in my country. Help me ensure it never happens.

(Climbing off the soapbox now...... to go do some shooting!)

[Nasturtium 500]

From our side as the USC (original one), we get a benefit too-- it unhooks you from your afadavit of support. We would all love to believe we have fairytale marriages, but it's not always the case... and being responsible for another person even after a divorce is kind of frightening.

I can understand being responsible for a Greyhound ticket and a one-way trip on Aeroflot (or Emirates!) but as for actually "supporting" someone who came here to be married to me and then chose to not be married anymore, well, that person can kiss my @$$ and do their best to win any monetary payment in divorce court. If it's a case of "normal" divorce (both entered into marriage in good faith and it just didn't work out) then it would be handled by state court anyway, not USCIS. Once again, I don't see this as the big bad govt. agency reserving the right to ruin my life because I did a K-1 visa. I see this as "hoops to jump through" if necessary.

I am not sure if a non-USC has the right to bear arms. I've heard that non-USCs cannot be law enforcement (but I am not sure if that's true or not). it could have something to do with the inability to bear arms.. but honestly, no idea.

Right is a tricky subject for non-USCs because Constitutional Rights aren't "guaranteed" to non-USCs but they are covered under United States Code. LPRs have the legal "right" to possess firearms while legally residing in the U.S. As above though, they are subject to the same laws, rules and regulations as USCs.

Law Enforcement guidelines are usually set at the state level and from what I've observed, 99.9% of LE departments require their sworn peace officers (actual cops who carry a badge and a gun) to be USCs. Sometimes though, they'll allow LPRs to start the process, provided they naturalize within a certain time frame. Often, LPRs who are interested in pursuing a career in law enforcement will become community relations officers (who may carry guns and sometimes even have arrest powers, etc.) campus security officers, animal control, corrections, or some other "non-sworn" LE position. State and local laws vary greatly on who can and can't carry a gun in the line of duty.

However, bottom line is anyone with a current greencard (who hasn't been convicted of a felony, misdemeanor domestic violence, or certain drug and alcohol-related crimes) can legally possess a firearm. And they should! I have 1,000 times more respect for a pro-2A LPR than an anti-2A USC. Reason being? Anyone who supports (and defends!) our Constitution is more of an American than someone who tramples on it or, worse, disregards it. Apathy is appalling.

Buy a rifle. If you have a rifle, learn to use it. I would include a shameless plug for my non-profit right now, but TOS dictates I refrain. If you're interested in 2A-related things, feel free to post them here or PM me. Or, if you're anti-2A, please share also. I'd much rather change your mind in times of peace, help educate and train you, be proud to know there's one more "American" (USC or LPR!) in this great nation of ours, than the alternative. (Take the bait.... take the bait....... "but slim, what's the alternative?") Do a search on toothbrushes and rape victims.

Never in my country. Help me ensure it never happens.

(Climbing off the soapbox now...... to go do some shooting!)

Hi Slim! OK by 2A I'm going to assume you mean the 2nd Ammendment, right? I'm just making sure because I have lack-of-sleep-itis and it sometimes affects brain function. I'm not particularly interested in owning a gun.... but I'm not anti-2nd ammendment. My dad was a peace officer and I grew up with the weekend gun-cleaning, guns everywhere kind of thing. I would actually fight to be able to keep one, even though I, myself, am not interested in having one. There was a time when i wanted to learn to shoot (also wanted to learn archery, it's about aiming and targets for me), but then I was never allowed so I kind of grew out of the desire by the time I was a teen. Now I'll admit a certain nervousness about them, but not in the way anti-gun people are. I'm well aware I am a gun-idiot who could totally shoot myself. As an admitted gun-idiot, until I actually figure out the safety and such, I'll just stick to moving it around like a paperweight when I see my dad's, thanks. Also, I don't want to carry unless I know how to defend myself. I fall under the more dangerous with than without in the sense of if you wanted to take it from me, I'd majorly fail at stopping you, short of my just shooting you (which is probably what I would do-- not let you get within 20 feet of me). So, until I rememdy these things, I am not interested in having one. Are these things hard to remedy? no, probably a good weekend could do it. I'm jsut not a person who puts faith in the gun to save me-- I know someone with good skills could easily turn the tables quickly. I figure best to not underestimate the skills of the threat and best to be cautious.

Glad to know the rules of the LPR vs firearms. I bet Ammar and my dad would love to go shooting together at the range. Ammar used to work M-16s and AK-47s, he had both at home until the government there changed the rules and confiscated all the guns...

As far as the support issue, it gets tricky. it's not like alimony I'm thinking about... for example, I have a friend who was married to a doctor who became an LPR with her from Jordan. They divorced after 3 years. He proceeded to make his regular income but claim 6 exemptions... well, eventually, the IRS figured him out. he bolted from here, and she was left, suddenly, with a knock at the door 2 years after their divorce and an 18k bill from the IRS she was legally required to pay. There was another MENA poster who was stuck with a 50k credit card debt after a split which popped up down the line, although I believe she argued out of most of it. The point is, that it pops up in weird ways-- tax fraud, etc and then they skip the country. Personally, I think it's a load of #######. Obviously, they didn't ask me when they drafted that. Personally, my husband would have to stick me with a h3ll of a bill to equal what he has paid me in joint income. He's been working with me to pay off my student loans before we leave the country and in one year, we've been able to knock out over 20k. You'd be surprised at teh sheer numbers of people who just ask why we don't just leave the debt. How crappy would that be? What is wrong with people and their lack of responsibility?

[mox 298]

Wouldn't Russian travel be exactly the same with a greencard? (Provided she wasn't gone for too long? In our case, there'd be no such thing as "gone for too long" unless we were going to move there. She's "American" now. Her life is here. Her future is here. Going to Russia would be for a "visit." For us, there's nothing temporary about her coming here or no real possibility of prolonged Russian stay. We kind of took the immigration thing seriously.)

I'm just saying that as a USC, there is ZERO possibility of her being turned away. As a LPR, there's always a chance of being turned away. Whether that's because you somehow share a similar name to a Chechen terrorist or because the guy on duty has a stick up his аss. It's small, but I listed it because a USC simply doesn't have this problem at all.

The upside is that she gets all the benefits of being an American citizen, including (as you pointed out) not ever having to deal with immigration bullsh*t again. More importantly, if she's ever charged with a crime they won't be able to just deport her. I think that's huge. Yes, it's very unlikely to happen, but people get caught up on the wrong side of the law all the time, through no fault of their own, and sometimes the government sees that it's cheaper and easier to just boot them out of the country

LPRs have, arguably, more rights to due process than USCs do. (Especially when the media or Congressman gets involved!)

A USC cannot be deported. An LPR can always be deported.

I've never really been one of those folks who was worried about the "what if?" when it comes to border entry/exit or getting caught up in some kind of govt. fiasco concerning her being deported or denied entry.

Me neither. As I said, I pointed these advantages out not because I think it's a big problem, but just to say "as a USC you will NEVER have this problem."

One thing that is nice about USCIS is the rules are very clear cut and as long as you're jumping through the hoops they want you to jump through, you'll have ZERO problems.

I don't believe this for a second. USCIS is a wholy owned subsidiary of Halliburton Dept of Homeland Security, and as such they will go around the law if and when they feel like it, and your only recourse is to pay through the nose for a lawyer and settle with them. I agree that the vast majority of people have no problems if, as you say, they follow the rules. But never kid yourself. All it takes is somebody making a mistake, and then somebody else to try to cover that mistake up.

Some folks take it so far as (and you may remember this thread) being concerned if there were a war to break out, would your S/O be deported? I've never even given any of that stuff a second thought because as long as she's current, and we're legally married, she's my wife. I'm a USC and my Rights apply to her as well since we're married. (Don't go arguing this one because I'll remind you that the 2nd Amendment guarantees our Rights!)

The law is not on your side with this one, I'm afraid, no matter how well armed you are. Your marriage might get you sympathy points in front of a jury, but your wife is her own person. Your rights don't transfer to her.

Social Security is based on working and paying, not immigration status. Hell, even illegals get Social Security!

Yep, I stand corrected on this. Although--point of order--illegals only collect Social Security illegally. I.e. they're not supposed to be allowed to collect it.

As for her holding a Federal job or getting a security clearance..... with Obama, anything is possible! I don't ever see her desiring anything remotely related to govt. work and can't think of any jobs desirable enough for her to acquire citizenship.

Meh...now you're speculating. As it stands right now, the law limits a non-USC's ability to work in the Federal sector.

I can understand being responsible for a Greyhound ticket and a one-way trip on Aeroflot (or Emirates!) but as for actually "supporting" someone who came here to be married to me and then chose to not be married anymore, well, that person can kiss my @$$ and do their best to win any monetary payment in divorce court. If it's a case of "normal" divorce (both entered into marriage in good faith and it just didn't work out) then it would be handled by state court anyway, not USCIS. Once again, I don't see this as the big bad govt. agency reserving the right to ruin my life because I did a K-1 visa. I see this as "hoops to jump through" if necessary.

I think you misunderstand how the affidavit of support works. You agreed when you sponsored her to cover the costs of any Federal assistance she receives. This isn't alimony or support, this is the government billing you for services rendered.

Anyway, you may not see any of the upsides right now, but as I said, there just aren't any downsides to citizenship, so why not just do it? The cost is the only thing that comes close to a downside...I think it's about $650 right now. If you consider that the fee for her 10 year greencard is--if memory serves--about $350, it's really only going to cost you $300. Compared to what you've already paid, $300 is a drop in the bucket.

[Milka 0]

Congratulations!

[GiGii 4]

There is an upside to the USC for their LPR spouse to gain citizenship, it is the end of the affidavit of support. You guys are understimating its powers. Even though Julianna explained more about the other possibilities, there lie more. If your spouse ever collected any type of support; welfare, stamps, went to a hospital didnt pay (didnt have insurance, etc), racks up debt, buys a car & doesnt want to pay it off, they come after the USC. Sure its not immediate, and by the time they get to you with what you owe there's probably 50% interest already added in, but as the USC its your debt, cause you promised to support your spouse.

As for illegals collecting Social Security, yes those that have been here ages. But past years illegals/tourist overstayers cant get a SS #, hence shortening this problem. SS has enough problems of their own, I was told I'm paying into a system I wont see a dime of I guess its no use to fix the system when its broken down, falling fast. Thank God for my 401K... wait that's broken down & falling fast too. I guess thank God for my house's value, wait that's falling fast too. Yay USA!

A naturalized citizen is deportable. Just this week Ivan Demjanjuk (Ukrainian Nazi) was going to be deported. He only got a temp stay based on his health issues. I dont get how he's given a temp stay, claiming traveling while sick is torture, yet he's forgotten what he did in the camps. I'd personally take on the responsibility for deporting his a$$ at age 89 and let him figure out what to do in a foreign land. Recently in the news, there was some huge local drug bust, the guy had been a naturalized citizen and they are working on getting him deported too (dont know the super specifics of this case).

There is another upside to dual citizenship. Lets say the RU spouse travels home to Russia, of course on a Russian passport. In case some crazy conflict would happen between US & Russia, the US will not go protecting the spouse, or finding them to bring them home. That is only for US citizens, however while you are on Russian land under a Russian passport, the US has no authority over you. I understand this is a far fetch, but possible given the US & RU relations. The upside of traveling on a US passport is hoping someone's got your back. However, I can understand how hassling it is to get all the mumbo jumbo of permits, etc.

[Neonred 3,460]

What is the upside to it?

I can understand folks not wanting to go through the process every ten years, but I could never see myself becoming a citizen of another country. I know inside every foreigner there's an American just waiting to get out, but my wife hasn't really expressed interest and I understand why. What's the motivation for you guys?

Wife and I are going to Australia this summer. For me it is easy, best I can tell so far it's just some online registration before we go. For her it's filling out several pages of the application, $100 visa fee, passport, translated and certified copy of her birth certificate, passport photo, financial documents from the bank, overseas health insurance, and an invitation letter. This all has to be sent to the Australian embassy in Washington for processing. Would be a lot easier if she were a US citizen.

[mox 298]

A naturalized citizen is deportable. Just this week Ivan Demjanjuk (Ukrainian Nazi) was going to be deported. He only got a temp stay based on his health issues. I dont get how he's given a temp stay, claiming traveling while sick is torture, yet he's forgotten what he did in the camps. I'd personally take on the responsibility for deporting his a$$ at age 89 and let him figure out what to do in a foreign land. Recently in the news, there was some huge local drug bust, the guy had been a naturalized citizen and they are working on getting him deported too (dont know the super specifics of this case).

You can't deport a citizen, naturalized or otherwise. In the case of Demjanjuk, they had to revoke his citizenship first. That has been a legal case stretching for years. I'm not familiar with the other case you mentioned, but they'll have to strip him of his citizenship too if they want to deport him.

There is another upside to dual citizenship. Lets say the RU spouse travels home to Russia, of course on a Russian passport. In case some crazy conflict would happen between US & Russia, the US will not go protecting the spouse, or finding them to bring them home. That is only for US citizens, however while you are on Russian land under a Russian passport, the US has no authority over you. I understand this is a far fetch, but possible given the US & RU relations. The upside of traveling on a US passport is hoping someone's got your back. However, I can understand how hassling it is to get all the mumbo jumbo of permits, etc.

Keep in mind though that if you are Russian holding a dual citizenship, you will only be issued a Russian visa in your US passport if you renounce Russian citizenship. If you continue to travel to Russia on your Russian passport, you're fine.

[Cliff_Ksenia 0]

Congratulations!

Thank you!