What Stimulated the Gun and Ammo Market?

[Ban Hammer 14,635]

Don't be silly Charles. You know perfectly well that FP is not obsessed with killers - and it rather cheapens your post to suggest that he is.

so how do you explain the sudden plethora of threads about it?

if you want to talk about cheapening a point, trying to connect gun control to mass murderers apparently escapes you.

[Ban Hammer 14,635]

There are thieves who have never shot anyone, let alone use a gun. Even the mafia usually kills with discrimination. You imply that all criminals can and will kill indiscriminantly if given the opportunity, which is false. The ones most likely to kill indiscriminantly (mass murderers) have a different profile....and they aren't career criminals. They are the ones most likely to arm themselves with assault weapons that would maximize the amount of killing they can do in a short amount of time...and those kinds of tragedies are the ones that upset people the most because the victims were random and the act was senseless. Career criminals have for the most part a different agenda.

we're not just talking about thieves here, steven. no, i didn't say all criminals will kill, just that they don't give a chit about the law.

it appears you're on a real tear about mass murderers. which, btw, is rather scary, this obsession you have with them.

Mass murderers are the ones I'm most concerned about owning and using assault weapons, Charles. It doesn't take rocket science to understand most random acts of violence are completely senseless because the victims just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. So when you combine someone who is capable of random acts of violence with weapons that are capable of killing lots of people in a very short amount of time - you have the ingredients of an otherwise avoidable tragedy.

have fun on your hunt for mass murderers. that should keep you quite occupied. tell me, how are you going to find them when the police can't?

and maybe i'm mistaken, but where have mass murderers been able to legally acquire assault rifles?

[HAL 9000 96]

And yet law abiding citizens are therefore, aiding and abetting these criminals by not realizing that some of the same weapons they so cherish, are worth more to them than the victims of crime and the safety and security of the very nation these good citizens live in.

did you have to visit the doctor after reaching like that, surely it threw your arm out of socket?

Not to mention not all violent criminals are pathological or career criminals. The argument that one day over the rainbow you may need to defend your home against a Hollywood madman can also be applied to the not so infrequent gunfreak that opens fire on a classroom, a mall, etc.

What's scarier?

A gunfreak that plans out a massacre or a gunfreak that is paranoid about 'the government' coming to take away their guns?

or a gunfreak that just hates guns?

Overreaching and :pop:stirring... specialties of Dr. Charles. PhD in Gunology.

[Ban Hammer 14,635]

And yet law abiding citizens are therefore, aiding and abetting these criminals by not realizing that some of the same weapons they so cherish, are worth more to them than the victims of crime and the safety and security of the very nation these good citizens live in.

did you have to visit the doctor after reaching like that, surely it threw your arm out of socket?

Not to mention not all violent criminals are pathological or career criminals. The argument that one day over the rainbow you may need to defend your home against a Hollywood madman can also be applied to the not so infrequent gunfreak that opens fire on a classroom, a mall, etc.

What's scarier?

A gunfreak that plans out a massacre or a gunfreak that is paranoid about 'the government' coming to take away their guns?

or a gunfreak that just hates guns?

Overreaching and :pop:stirring... specialties of Dr. Charles. PhD in Gunology.

i didn't expect a logical answer from you. your views on guns are well documented.

[HAL 9000 96]

And yet law abiding citizens are therefore, aiding and abetting these criminals by not realizing that some of the same weapons they so cherish, are worth more to them than the victims of crime and the safety and security of the very nation these good citizens live in.

did you have to visit the doctor after reaching like that, surely it threw your arm out of socket?

Not to mention not all violent criminals are pathological or career criminals. The argument that one day over the rainbow you may need to defend your home against a Hollywood madman can also be applied to the not so infrequent gunfreak that opens fire on a classroom, a mall, etc.

What's scarier?

A gunfreak that plans out a massacre or a gunfreak that is paranoid about 'the government' coming to take away their guns?

or a gunfreak that just hates guns?

Overreaching and :pop:stirring... specialties of Dr. Charles. PhD in Gunology.

i didn't expect a logical answer from you. your views on guns are well documented.

Yes, they are. Keep those weapons you already have. Stop production of assault X and assault Y. Regulate civilian markets to avoid sales that end up in the wrong hands.

Your position and sly sense of humor are also well documented.

[Ban Hammer 14,635]

And yet law abiding citizens are therefore, aiding and abetting these criminals by not realizing that some of the same weapons they so cherish, are worth more to them than the victims of crime and the safety and security of the very nation these good citizens live in.

did you have to visit the doctor after reaching like that, surely it threw your arm out of socket?

Not to mention not all violent criminals are pathological or career criminals. The argument that one day over the rainbow you may need to defend your home against a Hollywood madman can also be applied to the not so infrequent gunfreak that opens fire on a classroom, a mall, etc.

What's scarier?

A gunfreak that plans out a massacre or a gunfreak that is paranoid about 'the government' coming to take away their guns?

or a gunfreak that just hates guns?

Overreaching and :pop:stirring... specialties of Dr. Charles. PhD in Gunology.

i didn't expect a logical answer from you. your views on guns are well documented.

Yes, they are. Keep those weapons you already have. Stop production of assault X and assault Y. Regulate civilian markets to avoid sales that end up in the wrong hands.

Your position and sly sense of humor are also well documented.

that latter part already occurs. you just want to stop production, that's all.

[HAL 9000 96]

And yet law abiding citizens are therefore, aiding and abetting these criminals by not realizing that some of the same weapons they so cherish, are worth more to them than the victims of crime and the safety and security of the very nation these good citizens live in.

did you have to visit the doctor after reaching like that, surely it threw your arm out of socket?

Not to mention not all violent criminals are pathological or career criminals. The argument that one day over the rainbow you may need to defend your home against a Hollywood madman can also be applied to the not so infrequent gunfreak that opens fire on a classroom, a mall, etc.

What's scarier?

A gunfreak that plans out a massacre or a gunfreak that is paranoid about 'the government' coming to take away their guns?

or a gunfreak that just hates guns?

Overreaching and :pop:stirring... specialties of Dr. Charles. PhD in Gunology.

i didn't expect a logical answer from you. your views on guns are well documented.

Yes, they are. Keep those weapons you already have. Stop production of assault X and assault Y. Regulate civilian markets to avoid sales that end up in the wrong hands.

Your position and sly sense of humor are also well documented.

that latter part already occurs. you just want to stop production, that's all.

Stop it for the civilian market as it stands.

[justashooter 430]

Stop it for the civilian market as it stands.

hate to burst your bubble, but i have orders for about 9 in my network, and they will be assembled in a few weeks. the current bubble in the "assault rifle market that holder and osama have created will increase the number of AR in the states by about 8%, according to industry estimates. we are already looking at 20-25 million AR and AK in america.

So why do we have so much gun violence in this country?

in pennsylvania, it's about 92% attributable to hispanic drug trafficking.

[justashooter 430]

I'm for border control, no wall, and gun control, but believe non-criminals (like Charles) should be allowed to own guns. Where do I sign up?!

what's your definition of gun control?

Keeping guns off the streets and out of the hands of criminals, and the selling of guns not required for the average hunter or sportsman.

How's that?

failed.

the second amendment is not about duck hunting. it is about protecting america from foreign governments and despotic domestic governments. check with SCOTUS on that.

[HAL 9000 96]

Stop it for the civilian market as it stands.

hate to burst your bubble, but i have orders for about 9 in my network, and they will be assembled in a few weeks. the current bubble in the "assault rifle market that holder and osama have created will increase the number of AR in the states by about 8%, according to industry estimates. we are already looking at 20-25 million AR and AK in america.

So why do we have so much gun violence in this country?

in pennsylvania, it's about 92% attributable to hispanic drug trafficking.

Speaking of fail. Slanted with the obvious racist undertones as usual.

I asked WHY, not the WHAT. Any reasonable mind, even wiki thieves, should be able to tell the difference.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Stop it for the civilian market as it stands.

hate to burst your bubble, but i have orders for about 9 in my network, and they will be assembled in a few weeks. the current bubble in the "assault rifle market that holder and osama have created will increase the number of AR in the states by about 8%, according to industry estimates. we are already looking at 20-25 million AR and AK in america.

So why do we have so much gun violence in this country?

in pennsylvania, it's about 92% attributable to hispanic drug trafficking.

Speaking of fail. Slanted with the obvious racist undertones as usual.

I asked WHY, not the WHAT. Any reasonable mind, even wiki thieves, should be able to tell the difference.

Oh, hello Hal. I missed you at the other thread.

So now about this assault wepan ban you want, I am glad to see you rclearly state your position, or well, sort of. So hal, what exactly is an assualt weapon? How would you define the species, or wish for congress to define it?

For me, I say leave them alone and address the causes of crime you pointe out in the other thread today. You know, poor education, market for ciminal activity.

Now as to the why. We really do not have so much gun violence and it has been decreasing some 40% since the early 1990s. About the time we went from 3 states allowing concealed carry to 42 states. Funny thing about that. Gun violence goes down as gun ownership and carrying in public goes up. Intersting, and in the other thread you were going to tell me how reality works regarding that, can you do it here instead?

I really would like to hear and now that IK have answered your question, maybe you would consider answering mine. I wait patiently.

1. Define (your definition) an assault weapon

2. Please tell us why the people of IL cannot handle the responsibility of concealed carry like the people of neighboring Kentucky. And Indiana. Maybe a lack of education as you pointed out ion the other thread? I don't know.

I look forward to an interesting exchange of information and ideas.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I'm for border control, no wall, and gun control, but believe non-criminals (like Charles) should be allowed to own guns. Where do I sign up?!

what's your definition of gun control?

Keeping guns off the streets and out of the hands of criminals, and the selling of guns not required for the average hunter or sportsman.

How's that?

failed.

the second amendment is not about duck hunting. it is about protecting america from foreign governments and despotic domestic governments. check with SCOTUS on that.

TRUE!!!!!!!! Never enter into the "duck hunting" argument.

It is used by people who want to take our rights and throw away theirs to deflect from the argument. There is NO "right to hunt" there is a right to keep and bear arms.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I'm for border control, no wall, and gun control, but believe non-criminals (like Charles) should be allowed to own guns. Where do I sign up?!

what's your definition of gun control?

Keeping guns off the streets and out of the hands of criminals, and the selling of guns not required for the average hunter or sportsman.

How's that?

failed.

the second amendment is not about duck hunting. it is about protecting america from foreign governments and despotic domestic governments. check with SCOTUS on that.

I won't go to the hunting argument, preposterous.

The best place for guns TO be.... is ON the streets. As state after state approved concealed carry, crime rates dropped in each one. My state Vermont (liberals usually love Vermont except when it comes to things they don't agree with, like gun control) In Vermont there are no restrictions on ownership, sale and carrying of fireams, (beyond federal requirements) we don't need no stinkin' permit! Anyone over age 18 can pack heat baby! Yet we have a microscopic crime rate and even are a major route for drug dealers bringing the good hydroponic weed from Canada to Boston and New York, but they are French Canadians doing it. Quebecois, not Hispanics, so maybe that makes a difference? Hal? D'ya think? What do you think Hal? Hey we even have a place called "smugglers notch" named for it being a favorite pass in the Green Mountains for illegal imports from Canada, ever since Prohibition. But there isn't much shooting going on, they wait until they get to the un-armed victims in Boston and New York.

[HAL 9000 96]

Stop it for the civilian market as it stands.

hate to burst your bubble, but i have orders for about 9 in my network, and they will be assembled in a few weeks. the current bubble in the "assault rifle market that holder and osama have created will increase the number of AR in the states by about 8%, according to industry estimates. we are already looking at 20-25 million AR and AK in america.

So why do we have so much gun violence in this country?

in pennsylvania, it's about 92% attributable to hispanic drug trafficking.

Speaking of fail. Slanted with the obvious racist undertones as usual.

I asked WHY, not the WHAT. Any reasonable mind, even wiki thieves, should be able to tell the difference.

Oh, hello Hal. I missed you at the other thread.

So now about this assault wepan ban you want, I am glad to see you rclearly state your position, or well, sort of. So hal, what exactly is an assualt weapon? How would you define the species, or wish for congress to define it?

For me, I say leave them alone and address the causes of crime you pointe out in the other thread today. You know, poor education, market for ciminal activity.

Now as to the why. We really do not have so much gun violence and it has been decreasing some 40% since the early 1990s. About the time we went from 3 states allowing concealed carry to 42 states. Funny thing about that. Gun violence goes down as gun ownership and carrying in public goes up. Intersting, and in the other thread you were going to tell me how reality works regarding that, can you do it here instead?

I really would like to hear and now that IK have answered your question, maybe you would consider answering mine. I wait patiently.

1. Define (your definition) an assault weapon

2. Please tell us why the people of IL cannot handle the responsibility of concealed carry like the people of neighboring Kentucky. And Indiana. Maybe a lack of education as you pointed out ion the other thread? I don't know.

I look forward to an interesting exchange of information and ideas.

I am curious... if you don't have significant gun violence what then is a 40% drop in its occurrence? Statisticians the world-over usually stick to making claims that are meaningful. Like I may have told you- there are differences in population density that are at work in your beautiful home state as opposed to elsewhere.

Neither was I telling you how reality works regarding concealed weapons.

I will only answer this once- in my terms, and leave it at that:

1. Assault weapon: Repetitive-firing weapon whose initial production design is intended to be used in military and para-military (law enforcement) for tactical frequency advantages over the intended 'enemy.' Rifles capable of repetitive action whose repetitive firing design in my opinion should not be included in this definition as long as their function is designed for practical applications, i.e., hunting.

2. I never said the people of IL are not capable of handling any weapon. And I did not mention a lack of education either.

[britbird 4]

I'm for border control, no wall, and gun control, but believe non-criminals (like Charles) should be allowed to own guns. Where do I sign up?!

what's your definition of gun control?

Keeping guns off the streets and out of the hands of criminals, and the selling of guns not required for the average hunter or sportsman.

How's that?

failed.

the second amendment is not about duck hunting. it is about protecting america from foreign governments and despotic domestic governments. check with SCOTUS on that.

I think that for Justice Scalia it's at least partially about duck hunting...he's quite keen on blasting Donald and Daffy out of the sky so I'm told

An interesting side argument is whether you go for an originalist interpretation of the Constitution...(but that'll open up a whole other can of worms!)