France to go on strike...

[DeadPoolX 9]

I just don't see how striking when the economy is bad is a good idea. Doing so can only hurt the economy even more.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Laying aside your notion that unions are just a business, I am not conversant with US unions but what I know of unions in other countries, this is simply not the case, but no matter, laying that aside for now, surely if you are wary of any business that has influence on the government, you should be in a constant state of alert. There are hundreds of businesses in the US that have huge influences on the US government, and they represent very, very few people. I guess I don't get what you think you are trying to say against unions that you have little to no knowledge of.

As for the French economy, it's certainly not in any worse a state than any other economy currently it's not like the US, UK or other economies are booming and theirs is bust, now is it?

I have issues with the hundreds of business in the US that have huge influences in government, which is not unique the United States. I no more like them having those sort of influences than I do the unions.

Can you explain to me how unions in other countries are able to keep the business aspect out of it?

[Peikko 1,575]

What business aspect? In the unions I know about, the elected representatives of the work force negotiate with the representatives of the company to ensure that both sides get a mutually beneficial workplace. It's not rocket science. Some unions work extremely well (the ones you never hear about) and the negotiations never end up in strike action. Other less so, for a variety of reasons.

[_Simpson_ 250]

What business aspect? In the unions I know about, the elected representatives of the work force negotiate with the representatives of the company to ensure that both sides get a mutually beneficial workplace. It's not rocket science. Some unions work extremely well (the ones you never hear about) and the negotiations never end up in strike action. Other less so, for a variety of reasons.

Its not rocket science I agree. The unions work like lobbyists, not good.

Edited March 20, 2009 by looking_up

[Peikko 1,575]

Lobbyists? You mean the point of a unions is to work to get good pay and conditions in the work place for their members? In that sense I guess they are but I can't for the life of me see how that is 'not good' unless you don't think working people should have any leverage when it comes to negotiating pay and conditions. It's not like before unions existed pay and conditions were somehow marvelous for the work force, quite the opposite in fact, hence why they came about.

[meowmeowmeow 1]

at least they are exercising their right to protest and fight against the system....people have become too complacent here, not enough people speak out or care....

[dalegg 143]

What are they complaining about? I thought everything they did in France was the best way to do it. How can there even be an economic crisis?

[fozzie 41]

at least they are exercising their right to protest and fight against the system....people have become too complacent here, not enough people speak out or care....

That was kind of my original point. Most western societies don't do this very often. Its like we are satisfied with everything...when we are not. There are many posts on VJ that end up referring to the right to bear arms/form militias. That was a time when people spoke up and fought the government when the government became to powerful and had too much control. It wouldn't happen now and I am not saying it should but we have ways and means (protests, strikes etc) to regain some control but do not exercise that right.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Lobbyists? You mean the point of a unions is to work to get good pay and conditions in the work place for their members? In that sense I guess they are but I can't for the life of me see how that is 'not good' unless you don't think working people should have any leverage when it comes to negotiating pay and conditions. It's not like before unions existed pay and conditions were somehow marvelous for the work force, quite the opposite in fact, hence why they came about.

We have laws and regulations to protect workers. This is there leverage. Unions often want more than is reasonable and often hurt business.

[Peikko 1,575]

Laws and regulations are not work place specific, just general. It is not my experience that Unions often want more than is reasonable, that necessarily places the business in a poor position in the market place which jeopardizes the work force. Unions are not made up of stupid people, they know this, and know that they have to make reasonable demands.

[fozzie 41]

Lobbyists? You mean the point of a unions is to work to get good pay and conditions in the work place for their members? In that sense I guess they are but I can't for the life of me see how that is 'not good' unless you don't think working people should have any leverage when it comes to negotiating pay and conditions. It's not like before unions existed pay and conditions were somehow marvelous for the work force, quite the opposite in fact, hence why they came about.

We have laws and regulations to protect workers. This is there leverage. Unions often want more than is reasonable and often hurt business.

There are laws but ultimately it comes down to bargaining power. If a company decides that it wants to cut your pay it can, there is no law that says they can't. If you don't like it then quit, we will hire someone else who will work for that money. People will be scared of losing their jobs and not have any power to doing anything about it. NOW if your entire workforce decided to quit then you might think twice about cutting their pay. Thats why unions are important, especially for certain types of jobs.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"French unions have claimed that up to three million people have taken part in street protests amid a national strike against France's economic policies.

Police gave an estimate of 1.2 million people at rallies nationwide.

Schools have been closed and public transport disrupted, with demonstrations held in about 200 towns.

Unions are demanding more is spent to protect workers in the recession. Unemployment has reached two million and is expected to rise further. "

Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7951949.stm

People don't strike enough anymore.

They don't in this country - I think Americans are too beholden to authority, whether it comes from a politician or someone with a uniform or a gun.

[fozzie 41]

Laws and regulations are not work place specific, just general. It is not my experience that Unions often want more than is reasonable, that necessarily places the business in a poor position in the market place which jeopardizes the work force. Unions are not made up of stupid people, they know this, and know that they have to make reasonable demands.

The unions for auto workers at GM clearly helped #### up GM. I accept that. They are not the norm though, but an exception. The fact that so many workers were paid at the full rate even when they were not required to work was stupid and unsustainable. Then again the company should have seen that and argued their case better. Now everyone will lose out.

[HAL 9000 96]

"French unions have claimed that up to three million people have taken part in street protests amid a national strike against France's economic policies.

Police gave an estimate of 1.2 million people at rallies nationwide.

Schools have been closed and public transport disrupted, with demonstrations held in about 200 towns.

Unions are demanding more is spent to protect workers in the recession. Unemployment has reached two million and is expected to rise further. "

Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7951949.stm

People don't strike enough anymore.

They don't in this country - I think Americans are too beholden to authority, whether it comes from a politician or someone with a uniform or a gun.

Many union contracts forbid striking by its members in this country in favor of long-drawn arbitration that at many moments is temporary. An employer in such a case dismisses its striking employees and that is the end of it.