Very Very Emergency

[crystalchen 0]

Ok, my best friend, he was a Chinese and became an US citizen 2 weeks ago. He had a family emergency so he went back to China using his Chinese passport. He didn't have time to apply for a US passport, nor a Chinese visa. Now he is wondering how he could be back? Since you have to apply US passport in person. Would you suggest to talk to the US embassy in China about this issue? I guess that's the only way to do? Do Chinese government have the authority to not let you go back to US? please help!!!!

THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE. I AM WAITING ONLINE.

[lucyrich 19]

Ok, my best friend, he was a Chinese and became an US citizen 2 weeks ago. He had a family emergency so he went back to China using his Chinese passport. He didn't have time to apply for a US passport, nor a Chinese visa. Now he is wondering how he could be back? Since you have to apply US passport in person. Would you suggest to talk to the US embassy in China about this issue? I guess that's the only way to do? Do Chinese government have the authority to not let you go back to US? please help!!!!

THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE. I AM WAITING ONLINE.

Yes, he needs to talk to the US Embassy or consulate in China. Assuming they can verify his citizenship, they can issue him a US passport. I hope he has his naturalization certificate.

There's a US law that says no US citizen is allowed to leave the US without a US passport (with exceptions for land travel to Canada or Mexico, but those exceptions are being phased out). He has broken that law. But at the moment, there appears to be no penalty for that. Other people in similar situations have posted their experiences, and they've reported that the people in the consulate weren't very happy, and told them that they had violated the law by leaving the US without a US passport, but nothing very bad happened.

I don't know about the Chinese government. He's a Chinese citizen in China, so the Chinese government has jurisdiction over him while he's in China, and the US government can't help him much. If the Chinese government normally requires their citizens to get permission before leaving China, he may have to comply with whatever restrictions they have. But once he lands at the US airport and reaches a US port of entry, he's a US Citizen on US soil, and he can show his US passport (the one he's going to get at the US consulate in China) and be allowed in, regardless of what the Chinese government says.

[crystalchen 0]

Ok, my best friend, he was a Chinese and became an US citizen 2 weeks ago. He had a family emergency so he went back to China using his Chinese passport. He didn't have time to apply for a US passport, nor a Chinese visa. Now he is wondering how he could be back? Since you have to apply US passport in person. Would you suggest to talk to the US embassy in China about this issue? I guess that's the only way to do? Do Chinese government have the authority to not let you go back to US? please help!!!!

THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE. I AM WAITING ONLINE.

Yes, he needs to talk to the US Embassy or consulate in China. Assuming they can verify his citizenship, they can issue him a US passport. I hope he has his naturalization certificate.

There's a US law that says no US citizen is allowed to leave the US without a US passport (with exceptions for land travel to Canada or Mexico, but those exceptions are being phased out). He has broken that law. But at the moment, there appears to be no penalty for that. Other people in similar situations have posted their experiences, and they've reported that the people in the consulate weren't very happy, and told them that they had violated the law by leaving the US without a US passport, but nothing very bad happened.

I don't know about the Chinese government. He's a Chinese citizen in China, so the Chinese government has jurisdiction over him while he's in China, and the US government can't help him much. If the Chinese government normally requires their citizens to get permission before leaving China, he may have to comply with whatever restrictions they have. But once he lands at the US airport and reaches a US port of entry, he's a US Citizen on US soil, and he can show his US passport (the one he's going to get at the US consulate in China) and be allowed in, regardless of what the Chinese government says.

First of all, Thank you so much! This is really helpful! Since China does not admit dual citizenship, he is sitll an US citizen in China. I hope he will go there with a very good attitude saying that he didn't know he break the law and very sorry......... He didn't really know, and I don't know. I thought you can apply for a passport by mail or whatever.... ok anyway, this is so helpful! Thank you again!!!

btw, do you happen to have the links about other people's experience?

[hope1 0]

Ok, my best friend, he was a Chinese and became an US citizen 2 weeks ago. He had a family emergency so he went back to China using his Chinese passport. He didn't have time to apply for a US passport, nor a Chinese visa. Now he is wondering how he could be back? Since you have to apply US passport in person. Would you suggest to talk to the US embassy in China about this issue? I guess that's the only way to do? Do Chinese government have the authority to not let you go back to US? please help!!!!

THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE. I AM WAITING ONLINE.

Yes, he needs to talk to the US Embassy or consulate in China. Assuming they can verify his citizenship, they can issue him a US passport. I hope he has his naturalization certificate.

There's a US law that says no US citizen is allowed to leave the US without a US passport (with exceptions for land travel to Canada or Mexico, but those exceptions are being phased out). He has broken that law. But at the moment, there appears to be no penalty for that. Other people in similar situations have posted their experiences, and they've reported that the people in the consulate weren't very happy, and told them that they had violated the law by leaving the US without a US passport, but nothing very bad happened.

I don't know about the Chinese government. He's a Chinese citizen in China, so the Chinese government has jurisdiction over him while he's in China, and the US government can't help him much. If the Chinese government normally requires their citizens to get permission before leaving China, he may have to comply with whatever restrictions they have. But once he lands at the US airport and reaches a US port of entry, he's a US Citizen on US soil, and he can show his US passport (the one he's going to get at the US consulate in China) and be allowed in, regardless of what the Chinese government says.

First of all, Thank you so much! This is really helpful! Since China does not admit dual citizenship, he is sitll an US citizen in China. I hope he will go there with a very good attitude saying that he didn't know he break the law and very sorry......... He didn't really know, and I don't know. I thought you can apply for a passport by mail or whatever.... ok anyway, this is so helpful! Thank you again!!!

btw, do you happen to have the links about other people's experience?

How about applying for him. You can get the passport and send it overseas. He may fill the application and send to you and you take it from there.

Edited February 27, 2009 by hope1

[lucyrich 19]

How about applying for him. You can get the passport and send it overseas. He may fill the application and send to you and you take it from there.

You must appear in person to apply for a US passport. It's often possible to renew an expiring passport by mail, but in order to get that first US passport, the officer must see you in person, and the officer must witness you swearing that the information on the application is true.

[crystalchen 0]

Ok, my best friend, he was a Chinese and became an US citizen 2 weeks ago. He had a family emergency so he went back to China using his Chinese passport. He didn't have time to apply for a US passport, nor a Chinese visa. Now he is wondering how he could be back? Since you have to apply US passport in person. Would you suggest to talk to the US embassy in China about this issue? I guess that's the only way to do? Do Chinese government have the authority to not let you go back to US? please help!!!!

THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE. I AM WAITING ONLINE.

Yes, he needs to talk to the US Embassy or consulate in China. Assuming they can verify his citizenship, they can issue him a US passport. I hope he has his naturalization certificate.

There's a US law that says no US citizen is allowed to leave the US without a US passport (with exceptions for land travel to Canada or Mexico, but those exceptions are being phased out). He has broken that law. But at the moment, there appears to be no penalty for that. Other people in similar situations have posted their experiences, and they've reported that the people in the consulate weren't very happy, and told them that they had violated the law by leaving the US without a US passport, but nothing very bad happened.

I don't know about the Chinese government. He's a Chinese citizen in China, so the Chinese government has jurisdiction over him while he's in China, and the US government can't help him much. If the Chinese government normally requires their citizens to get permission before leaving China, he may have to comply with whatever restrictions they have. But once he lands at the US airport and reaches a US port of entry, he's a US Citizen on US soil, and he can show his US passport (the one he's going to get at the US consulate in China) and be allowed in, regardless of what the Chinese government says.

First of all, Thank you so much! This is really helpful! Since China does not admit dual citizenship, he is sitll an US citizen in China. I hope he will go there with a very good attitude saying that he didn't know he break the law and very sorry......... He didn't really know, and I don't know. I thought you can apply for a passport by mail or whatever.... ok anyway, this is so helpful! Thank you again!!!

btw, do you happen to have the links about other people's experience?

How about applying for him. You can get the passport and send it overseas. He may fill the application and send to you and you take it from there.

I went to the post office today, they said the person must be there present...... I asked what if the person broke his leg or sth.....they said NO.....so i guess there is no chance. I couldn't tell them that he is overseas, already.

[NickD 202]

Too late for this, but with emergency conditions, could have received his passport here in less than a day at one of the main centers. Did he bring his USC certificate with him? If not, does China have a reliable mail service? We have better luck in sending a letter to Santa at the North Pole than to Venezuela.

As usual, lucyrich gave a very precise answer, but thought refuge could also be sought at a US embassy. Really never experienced that or had to, just saw that in the movies.

[crystalchen 0]

Too late for this, but with emergency conditions, could have received his passport here in less than a day at one of the main centers. Did he bring his USC certificate with him? If not, does China have a reliable mail service? We have better luck in sending a letter to Santa at the North Pole than to Venezuela.

As usual, lucyrich gave a very precise answer, but thought refuge could also be sought at a US embassy. Really never experienced that or had to, just saw that in the movies.

i hope he will be fine. Thank you so much for your reply

[jasminelily 1]

Well... this is very tricky. As other VJers had already suggested, your friend needs to go to US embassy/consulate in China to apply for a passport in person right away. And he needs to have his original Naturalization Certificate with him. If he left it in the US, have someone mail it priority+certified/registered to him in China, make sure he receives it, then he can go to US embassy to apply for a passport. Now I know it's $100 for passport book + $60 for expedited. I think (not sure, better ask the embassy) he can put his mailing address in his foreign address, which is his address in China. The thing is, I'm a Chinese with true American husband so I know for sure, the pronouncing and spelling of long Chinese address is very confusing to Americans (sorry not to and never meant to or for any racial discrimination, I'm just trying to help here) and chances are they're going to mis-spell it, then who knows how/when/what happens when it's lost/missing in action in the mail and you know it takes half year and $380 to replace the original naturalization certificate. So I would, just my 2 cents, have him fill out his US address, and make sure someone is at that address to sign for receiving the passport when it arrives and that someone can use priority+certified/registered mail with correct address spelling mail to him in China, that someone can even put his Chinese address on the back of the evelope (if that someone knows how to write or type Chinese) because as far as US postal concerns, they only care about the country when they're sorting the mail, when it gets to China, it's China postal job to figure out which province and city that the mail goes to, so putting Chinese address on the envelope helps identifying the correct address when it gets to China. I can help you write or type it if you want, just send me a personal message. Also another suggestion is, use Fedex, UPS or DHL, it's fast, track, and safe. I think at this point when your friend is facing this huge problem, I don't think he minds or cares about spending a little more money just to get this resolved ASAP. I personally think that's a safer way, but hey that's just me and your friend don't necessary have to follow.

Unfortunately to say, he has to and better to stay and stuck in China until he gets his US passport in hand because if he trys to use to his Chinese passport to leave China, most likely there's not gonna be a problem when leaving BUT when he enters the US, he is breaking the law again and huge trouble to come afterwards and it might lead to his "de-naturalization" because by using his Chinese passport, he is renouncing his old Chinese citizenship and that means giving up US citizenship because as far as I know when you enter US and if you're US citizen, you cannot use foreign passport otherwise it gives USCIS the grounds to strip his citizenship if they found out and that's if they're ever finds out. And that's no excuse if you know that you've already broke the law once, and it's just a "no-brainer" to do it again. You know "ignorance" (sorry doesn't mean any offense to your friend, just an analogy) of the law doesn't = to "innocence". Now he already broke the law once when he leaves US by using his Chinese passport after he became US citizen, and if he goes to US embassy to tell them what kind of emergency he had (prove of hospital bill or affidavit from doctor for his relatives illness, or some other situations, everything must be either in English or be translated into English and he better to prepared that the US embassy is definitely going to ask for it), admit the truth and ask for forgiveness, that might help proves his good morality and they might let them "slip through" just this one time, but USCIS is still having the record already and who knows what they would do. So like I said, apply his US passport in US embassy in China ASAP, then come back to US with his US passport, so to show that he's trying to correct the problem and making "Amen" with it.

Hope that helps! By the way, once again, never meant to offend anyone, just trying to help here. Also, I'm not a lawyer or attorney, everything I said here is just my 2 cents, and if your friend sees fits, he might need to consult an attorney or you can consult an attorney for him. Good Luck!

[jasminelily 1]

I don't know about the Chinese government. He's a Chinese citizen in China, so the Chinese government has jurisdiction over him while he's in China, and the US government can't help him much. If the Chinese government normally requires their citizens to get permission before leaving China, he may have to comply with whatever restrictions they have. But once he lands at the US airport and reaches a US port of entry, he's a US Citizen on US soil, and he can show his US passport (the one he's going to get at the US consulate in China) and be allowed in, regardless of what the Chinese government says.

It's is true that the US government won't be able to help him when he breaks the law in China, because (1) he used his Chinese passport to leave US and entered China, US govenrnment will see him as he's renouncing his old Chinese citizenship and giving up his US citizenship so US government would not help him at all, not even one bit AND (2) if anyone breaks the law in China soil, then anyone is subjects to jurisdiction under the law of China no matter where you're from, I'm a Chinese so I know and 100% sure that Chinese government definitely and absolutely stand stern on this point, Chinese governement is not going to let ease one step (I mean not even half a step) unless that someone is a royalty of some country that the Chinese government has political interest that it wants to be friends with. Otherwise, even FBI, CIA, whatever three letter agencies or even Interpol is involved, Chinese government is still not going to let go of that someone too easily. (Sorry again I don't mean to portrait the darkness of Chinese government but I'm just telling the truth)

BUT there is one thing that the US government can do to help your friend: expedite his passort application, pertaining on the grounds that your friend has first to submit his application to the US Embassy in China and second to pay the passport application fee plus the expedited service fee.

Edited February 28, 2009 by jasminelily

[jasminelily 1]

I don't know about the Chinese government. He's a Chinese citizen in China, so the Chinese government has jurisdiction over him while he's in China, and the US government can't help him much. If the Chinese government normally requires their citizens to get permission before leaving China, he may have to comply with whatever restrictions they have. But once he lands at the US airport and reaches a US port of entry, he's a US Citizen on US soil, and he can show his US passport (the one he's going to get at the US consulate in China) and be allowed in, regardless of what the Chinese government says.

It's is true that the US government won't be able to help him when he breaks the law in China, because (1) he used his Chinese passport to leave US and entered China, US govenrnment will see him as he's renouncing his old Chinese citizenship and giving up his US citizenship so US government would not help him at all, not even one bit since US government has no ground to fight for him even if it wants to AND (2) if anyone breaks the law in China soil, then anyone is subjects to jurisdiction under the law of China no matter where you're from, I'm a Chinese so I know and 100% sure that Chinese government definitely and absolutely stand stern on this point of its foregin policy, Chinese governement is not going to let ease one step (I mean not even half a step) unless that someone is a royalty of some country that the Chinese government has political interest that it wants to be friends with. Otherwise, even FBI, CIA, whatever three letter agencies or even Interpol is involved, Chinese government is still not going to let go of that someone too easily. (Sorry again I don't mean to portrait the darkness of Chinese government but I'm just telling the truth)

BUT there is one thing that the US government can do to help your friend: expedite his passort application, pertaining on the grounds that your friend has first to submit his application to the US Embassy in China and second to pay the passport application fee plus the expedited service fee.

[jasminelily 1]

By the way, I know I kept posting more and more, but I do need to remind your friend one more point. The processing center and passport production center are at two different places. So it is very possible and it had been posted and reported on different immigration forums that the original naturalization certificate and the passport will be mailed back to your friend in two different pieces/envelopes because after the processing center verifies your friend's actual true naturalization, the processing center had no more use of it after that and there is no need for them to forward it to the passport production center (the production center only produce, doesn't do the verification part) risking it being lost and the processing center do realize the naturalization certificate is such an important document that it takes time and costs a fortune to replace, so they would return it to the applicant ASAP because the applicant might have other use of it e.g. updating/registering new status with SSA, applying a new job or recently heat topic i.e. applying unemployment benefits. So if it really comes back in two different pieces on different time, please do not panic as that's normal. And that's one more reason I suggested in my previous post that your friend should put US mailling address because naturalization and passport will come back to your friend in two different pieces, that's more risk of either one of them being lost on the mail to China. I know putting US mailing address, then someone he trusts can help him fedex to China is gonna take longer and costs more, but putting Chinese address in English is gambling on higher risk, well at least to my personal guts. At the end, it's really up to his own decision. Alright, need to head to bed now, post reply here or send me a personal message if you or your friend need more help.

[crystalchen 0]

Thank you so much for all your replies! every word you said is really so helpful! I will definitely ask him to talk to the US embassy next Monday first thing in the morning. He didn't bring his certification of naturalization with him, but I will definitely ask his parents to mail to his company address which is more secure and let him bring that to US embassy in China. Do you have any suggestions about what to say? I mean, he could say that he didn't know the passport thing and thought he could mail the application of passport without being there and thought I could mail the passport to him when he is in China....I really don't know, maybe he should not expain much, just admit his mistake and look for a solution? Will he be able to go back to China after this?

Again, thank you so much....!

[edandying 0]

May or may not be helpful ?

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html

Dual national Americans, particularly those with dual Chinese and American nationality, should realize that entering China using their non-U.S. passport could mean that the Chinese Government may not afford them the consular protections to which they are entitled. While the U.S. Government will offer consular services to all U.S. citizens regardless of dual nationality, use of other than a U.S. passport to enter China can make it difficult for U.S. Consuls to assist dual national Americans who have been arrested or who have other concerns with the Chinese Government.

China does not recognize dual citizenship. U.S. Embassy and Consulate officials are often denied access to arrested or detained Americans who do not enter China using their U.S. passport. Lawful Permanent Residents of the United States who do not carry unexpired or otherwise clear evidence that they may re-enter the United States will encounter delays departing from China. Lawful Permanent Residents should renew and update U.S. residence documentation prior to their departure from the United States.

Edited February 28, 2009 by edandying

[jasminelily 1]

Thank you so much for all your replies! every word you said is really so helpful! I will definitely ask him to talk to the US embassy next Monday first thing in the morning. He didn't bring his certification of naturalization with him, but I will definitely ask his parents to mail to his company address which is more secure and let him bring that to US embassy in China. Do you have any suggestions about what to say? I mean, he could say that he didn't know the passport thing and thought he could mail the application of passport without being there and thought I could mail the passport to him when he is in China....I really don't know, maybe he should not expain much, just admit his mistake and look for a solution? Will he be able to go back to China after this?

Again, thank you so much....!

I suggest him to tell the truth and not to lie. As Chinese always say "paper cannot cover fire, it will only enhance fire or make the fire worse". The more he tries to make excuses, the more mistakes of things that he might says, and the "less innocent" he looks like, then bad morality adds to more grounds for USCIS to "de-naturalize" him. Once again, "ignorant (didn't know the law)" doesn't equal to "innocent (not guilty)". Plus, I don't know how good your friend's English is, but from my experience, he has to be lucky to meet someone with extreme patience to try to understand of what your friend is going to say/trying to explain his situation, and most likely Chinese has bad accent (no offense), I have my accent too. I know that because I had lots of training from my American husband, I've tried very hard to get rid of my accent and I've told everyone the first time I meet them that English is not my first language and if I say something wrong in their eyes, I never meant any offense to anyone. According to my husband, most of my Chinese friends have accent and it's hard to understand without his extensive experience of training/dealing with me. He had mentioned that it helped him on his job because we both work in logsitics industry and he sometimes has to deal with Asians, and with the experience talking to me, compares to his co-wrokers that has no experience or patience, all Asian customers appointed him to be their representative and they won't deal with/talk to anyone else. Now if your friend really had a serious emergency and if he can provide proof and have it translated into English, and amit that he had made an "honest mistake" under a very stressful situation, the USCIS might just let him "slip through" this once, but once only, he had to be more more more careful from now on, study the law if he have to.

Well... as for the going back to China part, he will be able to, but if he really wish to keep the US citizenship, it's better for him to use US passport for travel, and he might even have to apply for tourist visa if he wants to go back to China. It's ok in the US eyes for him to have dual citizenship, but in China eyes, they don't allow dual citizenship, so when his Chinese passport expires, he is no longer going to be able to renew his Chinese passport, also meaning giving up Chinese citizenship, once again the US side really doesn't care much, but it's the Chinese side that caused him not to be able to keep dual citizenship.

If any other fellow VJers have different opinions, by all means, please post a reply. I saw a lot of postess here got mad if someone else say something diffrent or being disagreed with, but I'm not one of them, and by all means, please correct me if I'm wrong, I would like to know if I'm wrong because I would not like to make that kind of "honest mistake" like crystalchen's friend here. Once again, I'm not an attorney, just my 2 cents and please don't hold me legally responsible, I'm just trying to help.

Edited February 28, 2009 by jasminelily