Senators don’t want (illegal) immigrants in stimulus jobs

[Chica Yeyé 41]

fine them and bar them from any government contracts for life

hell - bar them from operating. close them down, see if they learn.

It would be foolish to punish a company by putting it out of business. It hurts the economy and a company that is gone cannot hire American workers to replace illegal workers. The penalty has to be severe enough to deter, not destroy.

Howerver, if a company cannot survive or profit without exploiting illegal workers then it will go out of business just like any other inefficient business. Just like a business that cannot quit polluting the air and water without going bankrupt. Tolerating shoddy or harmful business practices just to keep a business going is't the answer either. The bottom line is that businesses have no right to break laws to stay profitable or to stay in business.

How about this: you fine them and warn them. You review them again and, if they have persisted; close them down. If they are knowingly hiring undocumented peepz, they should be punished. I would feel indeed sorry for the legal workers; but life is a b1tch. If they are not hiring legal residents in the first place I have no sense of compassion for them.

[Caladan 19]

Seems like a reasonable provision, as long as the system is reliable enough so it doesn't inadvertently prevent citizens and legal immigrants/visa holders from working.

[panamania79 2]

That's the way it should, hopefully it will be enforced.

[EstebanTrabajos 7]

fine them and bar them from any government contracts for life

hell - bar them from operating. close them down, see if they learn.

It would be foolish to punish a company by putting it out of business. It hurts the economy and a company that is gone cannot hire American workers to replace illegal workers. The penalty has to be severe enough to deter, not destroy.

Howerver, if a company cannot survive or profit without exploiting illegal workers then it will go out of business just like any other inefficient business. Just like a business that cannot quit polluting the air and water without going bankrupt. Tolerating shoddy or harmful business practices just to keep a business going is't the answer either. The bottom line is that businesses have no right to break laws to stay profitable or to stay in business.

How about this: you fine them and warn them. You review them again and, if they have persisted; close them down. If they are knowingly hiring undocumented peepz, they should be punished. I would feel indeed sorry for the legal workers; but life is a b1tch. If they are not hiring legal residents in the first place I have no sense of compassion for them.

but but but they are US citizens, they are fine, hardworking people! why do you want to punish them? ...it's not like they broke the law...wait a minute

You see the double standards that some members of this forum hold??

Edited January 30, 2009 by TävôLuDô

[panamania79 2]

fine them and bar them from any government contracts for life

hell - bar them from operating. close them down, see if they learn.

It would be foolish to punish a company by putting it out of business. It hurts the economy and a company that is gone cannot hire American workers to replace illegal workers. The penalty has to be severe enough to deter, not destroy.

Howerver, if a company cannot survive or profit without exploiting illegal workers then it will go out of business just like any other inefficient business. Just like a business that cannot quit polluting the air and water without going bankrupt. Tolerating shoddy or harmful business practices just to keep a business going is't the answer either. The bottom line is that businesses have no right to break laws to stay profitable or to stay in business.

How about this: you fine them and warn them. You review them again and, if they have persisted; close them down. If they are knowingly hiring undocumented peepz, they should be punished. I would feel indeed sorry for the legal workers; but life is a b1tch. If they are not hiring legal residents in the first place I have no sense of compassion for them.

but but but they are US citizens, they are fine, hardworking people! why do you want to punish them? ...it's not like they broke the law...wait a minute

You see the double standards that some members of this forum hold??

It's basically their fault in the first place so they should be punished.

[peejay 327]

fine them and bar them from any government contracts for life

hell - bar them from operating. close them down, see if they learn.

It would be foolish to punish a company by putting it out of business. It hurts the economy and a company that is gone cannot hire American workers to replace illegal workers. The penalty has to be severe enough to deter, not destroy.

Howerver, if a company cannot survive or profit without exploiting illegal workers then it will go out of business just like any other inefficient business. Just like a business that cannot quit polluting the air and water without going bankrupt. Tolerating shoddy or harmful business practices just to keep a business going is't the answer either. The bottom line is that businesses have no right to break laws to stay profitable or to stay in business.

How about this: you fine them and warn them. You review them again and, if they have persisted; close them down. If they are knowingly hiring undocumented peepz, they should be punished. I would feel indeed sorry for the legal workers; but life is a b1tch. If they are not hiring legal residents in the first place I have no sense of compassion for them.

but but but they are US citizens, they are fine, hardworking people! why do you want to punish them? ...it's not like they broke the law...wait a minute

You see the double standards that some members of this forum hold??

What double standard? Jail and fine isn't enough? Do you want the employers summarily shot and the assets of what remains of the company to be liquidated to be given to the poor and downtrodden masses?

What good does that do? They'll just blow the money on crack, cheap malt liquor, and lotto tickets. That is a job creating dead end. Better to get the errant employer to comply with the law and hire legal workers. Punish and deter, but don't destroy. Companies hire cheap illegal workers because they can. If it costs them more than what it is worth they won't.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

What double standard? Jail and fine isn't enough? Do you want the employers summarily shot and the assets of what remains of the company to be liquidated to be given to the poor and downtrodden masses?

What good does that do? They'll just blow the money on crack, cheap malt liquor, and lotto tickets. That is a job creating dead end. Better to get the errant employer to comply with the law and hire legal workers. Punish and deter, but don't destroy. Companies hire cheap illegal workers because they can. If it costs them more than what it is worth they won't.

Punish and deter. OK. Again - Fine and warn them. They don't comply, then they are the ones using your laws (which are also theirs) as a freaking tampon and should not be allowed to conduct business. Close them down. If those losers did not hire illegal labor and would be willing to pay the salaries legal workers demand in the first place, there would be no freaking problem. But seems you want all the responsibility to be with either the illegal workers or the government, while absolving unethical "businessmen". Lame and indeed double standard.

As for the bolded part, who exactly were you talking about? Please, don't hold back.

[peejay 327]

What double standard? Jail and fine isn't enough? Do you want the employers summarily shot and the assets of what remains of the company to be liquidated to be given to the poor and downtrodden masses?

What good does that do? They'll just blow the money on crack, cheap malt liquor, and lotto tickets. That is a job creating dead end. Better to get the errant employer to comply with the law and hire legal workers. Punish and deter, but don't destroy. Companies hire cheap illegal workers because they can. If it costs them more than what it is worth they won't.

Punish and deter. OK. Again - Fine and warn them. They don't comply, then they are the ones using your laws (which are also theirs) as a freaking tampon and should not be allowed to conduct business. Close them down. If those losers did not hire illegal labor and would be willing to pay the salaries legal workers demand in the first place, there would be no freaking problem. But seems you want all the responsibility to be with either the illegal workers or the government, while absolving unethical "businessmen". Lame and indeed double standard.

As for the bolded part, who exactly were you talking about? Please, don't hold back.

As for the bolded part...I don't live in a gated community or on a college campus. I live and operate in the real world. I see what I see and I know what I know. The take from the rich and give to the poor school of thought is a dead end. I'm all for sharing the wealth, but spreading the wealth is a dead end.

[EstebanTrabajos 7]

What double standard? Jail and fine isn't enough? Do you want the employers summarily shot and the assets of what remains of the company to be liquidated to be given to the poor and downtrodden masses?

What good does that do? They'll just blow the money on crack, cheap malt liquor, and lotto tickets. That is a job creating dead end. Better to get the errant employer to comply with the law and hire legal workers. Punish and deter, but don't destroy. Companies hire cheap illegal workers because they can. If it costs them more than what it is worth they won't.

Punish and deter. OK. Again - Fine and warn them. They don't comply, then they are the ones using your laws (which are also theirs) as a freaking tampon and should not be allowed to conduct business. Close them down. If those losers did not hire illegal labor and would be willing to pay the salaries legal workers demand in the first place, there would be no freaking problem. But seems you want all the responsibility to be with either the illegal workers or the government, while absolving unethical "businessmen". Lame and indeed double standard.

As for the bolded part, who exactly were you talking about? Please, don't hold back.

As for the bolded part...I don't live in a gated community or on a college campus. I live and operate in the real world. I see what I see and I know what I know. The take from the rich and give to the poor school of thought is a dead end. I'm all for sharing the wealth, but spreading the wealth is a dead end.

Oh oh oh I know I know! Robin Hood!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

What double standard? Jail and fine isn't enough? Do you want the employers summarily shot and the assets of what remains of the company to be liquidated to be given to the poor and downtrodden masses?

What good does that do? They'll just blow the money on crack, cheap malt liquor, and lotto tickets. That is a job creating dead end. Better to get the errant employer to comply with the law and hire legal workers. Punish and deter, but don't destroy. Companies hire cheap illegal workers because they can. If it costs them more than what it is worth they won't.

Punish and deter. OK. Again - Fine and warn them. They don't comply, then they are the ones using your laws (which are also theirs) as a freaking tampon and should not be allowed to conduct business. Close them down. If those losers did not hire illegal labor and would be willing to pay the salaries legal workers demand in the first place, there would be no freaking problem. But seems you want all the responsibility to be with either the illegal workers or the government, while absolving unethical "businessmen". Lame and indeed double standard.

As for the bolded part, who exactly were you talking about? Please, don't hold back.

As for the bolded part...I don't live in a gated community or on a college campus. I live and operate in the real world. I see what I see and I know what I know. The take from the rich and give to the poor school of thought is a dead end. I'm all for sharing the wealth, but spreading the wealth is a dead end.

So, where you live people "just blow the money on crack, cheap malt liquor, and lotto tickets"? Otherwise you did not answer the question: who were you referring to?

And sorry, but if the "businessmen" are breaking the law, they should also suffer consequences, and severe ones. Otherwise, your laws keep being a joke for unscrupulous people (both illegal workers AND business owners).

Ok, back to my campus cocoon. Have a sweet weekend.

[peejay 327]

What double standard? Jail and fine isn't enough? Do you want the employers summarily shot and the assets of what remains of the company to be liquidated to be given to the poor and downtrodden masses?

What good does that do? They'll just blow the money on crack, cheap malt liquor, and lotto tickets. That is a job creating dead end. Better to get the errant employer to comply with the law and hire legal workers. Punish and deter, but don't destroy. Companies hire cheap illegal workers because they can. If it costs them more than what it is worth they won't.

Punish and deter. OK. Again - Fine and warn them. They don't comply, then they are the ones using your laws (which are also theirs) as a freaking tampon and should not be allowed to conduct business. Close them down. If those losers did not hire illegal labor and would be willing to pay the salaries legal workers demand in the first place, there would be no freaking problem. But seems you want all the responsibility to be with either the illegal workers or the government, while absolving unethical "businessmen". Lame and indeed double standard.

As for the bolded part, who exactly were you talking about? Please, don't hold back.

As for the bolded part...I don't live in a gated community or on a college campus. I live and operate in the real world. I see what I see and I know what I know. The take from the rich and give to the poor school of thought is a dead end. I'm all for sharing the wealth, but spreading the wealth is a dead end.

So, where you live people "just blow the money on crack, cheap malt liquor, and lotto tickets"? Otherwise you did not answer the question: who were you referring to?

And sorry, but if the "businessmen" are breaking the law, they should also suffer consequences, and severe ones. Otherwise, your laws keep being a joke for unscrupulous people (both illegal workers AND business owners).

Ok, back to my campus cocoon. Have a sweet weekend.

So you want to play a game of semantics?

I'm refering to dopers, drunkards, and spendthrifts. What do you have in mind?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

No, not playing. I seriously thought you were talking about the unemployed.

kthxbai

[peejay 327]

No, not playing. I seriously thought you were talking about the unemployed.

kthxbai

A lot of them are not only unemployed, but they are unemployable. AKA: workproof.

If you enjoy reading there is a book by David Eddings called The Losers. I've run across many of the same type of people in my travels through life. I've never lived it myself nor do I want to, but have seen lots of it in my time. It isn't my way, but I've been around it. I saw it in real life before I even read the book.

The book is fiction, but it might be as close as you will probably get to knowing these kinds of people without actually being there. I can only say that God helps those that help themselves. Government is no cure to what ails them.

Ever heard of a crazy check? That is the big enchelada in those circles.

Edited January 31, 2009 by peejay

[panamania79 2]

No, not playing. I seriously thought you were talking about the unemployed.

kthxbai

A lot of them are not only unemployed, but they are unemployable. AKA: workproof.

If you enjoy reading there is a book by David Eddings called The Losers. I've run across many of the same type of people in my travels through life. I've never lived it myself nor do I want to, but have seen lots of it in my time. It isn't my way, but I've been around it. I saw it in real life before I even read the book.

The book is fiction, but it might be as close as you will probably get to knowing these kinds of people without actually being there. I can only say that God helps those that help themselves. Government is no cure to what ails them.

Ever heard of a crazy check? That is the big enchelada in those circles.

Growing up back in the day in my neighborhood,we used to call them "lifers." Most of them were either alcoholics,druggies,or both

Edited January 31, 2009 by panamania79

[peejay 327]

No, not playing. I seriously thought you were talking about the unemployed.

kthxbai

A lot of them are not only unemployed, but they are unemployable. AKA: workproof.

If you enjoy reading there is a book by David Eddings called The Losers. I've run across many of the same type of people in my travels through life. I've never lived it myself nor do I want to, but have seen lots of it in my time. It isn't my way, but I've been around it. I saw it in real life before I even read the book.

The book is fiction, but it might be as close as you will probably get to knowing these kinds of people without actually being there. I can only say that God helps those that help themselves. Government is no cure to what ails them.

Ever heard of a crazy check? That is the big enchelada in those circles.

Growing up back in the day in my neighborhood,we used to call them "lifers." Most of them were either alcoholics,druggies,or both

You forgot one of the most important additions to the food pyramid...cigs. Dope, booze, and cigs. Ever notice that these folks don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, but they always manage to have cigs. Factory smokes when the check comes in and roll-yer-owns at the end of the month.

I'm not making fun of them, but I know what I have seen. The US taxpayer $$$ likely funds a huge chunk of the substance abuse going on in the USA. A lot more than many want to admit.