Consensus emerging on universal healthcare - but single payer is off the table

[Amby 490]

Debt isn't "paid back", only serviced. Think of it as an interest-only mortgage with a term of 'forever'.

The ultimate ponzi scheme!

so why not make this un-repayable debt about saving american lives than some un-winnable wars? it's pretty simple, isn't it? or do you think i am making this too complicated for people?

These "wars we are losing" don't last forever, therefore the amount of borrowed money is limited.

the amount of money that has been used on the wars is vast, you know that as well as i do. the amount of taxes required to implement healthcare for everyone would never be as high as that.

That's just not true.

In 2007, total national health spending was $2.3 TRILLION.

Six years in (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008), the total cost of the Iraq war comes to roughly $600 billion.

the amount spent on national health now is irrelevant. how much more would be required to provide basic care for everyone?

also, i know we have had this conversation before but do you think that human life is less important than corporate greed? do you think people should die because they can't afford health insurance?

I do...if they're doing nothing to contribute to the world then we won't miss them.

Under the same logic people that act like leeches to the rest of the world should also be terminated.

2.3 TRILLION-

Unless costs are reduced.

Yes! DO IT!

[rocks 494]

Debt isn't "paid back", only serviced. Think of it as an interest-only mortgage with a term of 'forever'.

The ultimate ponzi scheme!

so why not make this un-repayable debt about saving american lives than some un-winnable wars? it's pretty simple, isn't it? or do you think i am making this too complicated for people?

These "wars we are losing" don't last forever, therefore the amount of borrowed money is limited.

the amount of money that has been used on the wars is vast, you know that as well as i do. the amount of taxes required to implement healthcare for everyone would never be as high as that.

That's just not true.

In 2007, total national health spending was $2.3 TRILLION.

Six years in (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008), the total cost of the Iraq war comes to roughly $600 billion.

the amount spent on national health now is irrelevant. how much more would be required to provide basic care for everyone?

also, i know we have had this conversation before but do you think that human life is less important than corporate greed? do you think people should die because they can't afford health insurance?

I do...if they're doing nothing to contribute to the world then we won't miss them.

...

not funny.

I wasn't being funny. That's really how I feel.

wow... a lot of things are running through my mind but unlike you i have the sense to keep them to myself.

[trailmix 77]

So McCain's plan was horrible and was rightly rejected - but rather than doing what is really necessary (a wholesale reform of the healthcare system that tears it apart to its foundations) we'll take the same leaky old house, paper over the cracks and flog it back to an unsuspecting mug (i.e. Us).

Job done. Apparently

Exactly. The Baucus 'plan' is a joke.

What do the liberals suggest, that will not cost the taxpayer further tax?

war costs lots of money, do you agree with that?

Indeed and without question. However, you can not cover all Americans with health insurance, without significant impact to the taxpayers. I am not willing to support that agenda.

I can't read this whole thread because it will just be the same old stuff.

- Even if someone is not insured here, I understand that they do get care. Can you please give me a hint at who might be paying for this and where that money comes from?

Just because it is not a 'formal' plan, this does not mean you are not paying for it - just that those folks probably receive sub-standard care due to lack of accessability.

What does it say about a society that cannot agree that everyone deserves good health care. I have to shake my head and wonder at the completely selfish nature of that.

Edited December 2, 2008 by trailmix

[mawilson 2,133]

Under the same logic people that act like leeches to the rest of the world should also be terminated.

Yes! DO IT!

He means us (Americans) "acting as leeches".

[HAL 9000 96]

Debt isn't "paid back", only serviced. Think of it as an interest-only mortgage with a term of 'forever'.

The ultimate ponzi scheme!

so why not make this un-repayable debt about saving american lives than some un-winnable wars? it's pretty simple, isn't it? or do you think i am making this too complicated for people?

These "wars we are losing" don't last forever, therefore the amount of borrowed money is limited.

the amount of money that has been used on the wars is vast, you know that as well as i do. the amount of taxes required to implement healthcare for everyone would never be as high as that.

That's just not true.

In 2007, total national health spending was $2.3 TRILLION.

Six years in (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008), the total cost of the Iraq war comes to roughly $600 billion.

the amount spent on national health now is irrelevant. how much more would be required to provide basic care for everyone?

also, i know we have had this conversation before but do you think that human life is less important than corporate greed? do you think people should die because they can't afford health insurance?

I do...if they're doing nothing to contribute to the world then we won't miss them.

Under the same logic people that act like leeches to the rest of the world should also be terminated.

2.3 TRILLION-

Unless costs are reduced.

Yes! DO IT!

I am unable to access the proper mainframes. They are not networked in a coherent fashion. HAL 9000 requires more computing power.

[Amby 490]

Debt isn't "paid back", only serviced. Think of it as an interest-only mortgage with a term of 'forever'.

The ultimate ponzi scheme!

so why not make this un-repayable debt about saving american lives than some un-winnable wars? it's pretty simple, isn't it? or do you think i am making this too complicated for people?

These "wars we are losing" don't last forever, therefore the amount of borrowed money is limited.

the amount of money that has been used on the wars is vast, you know that as well as i do. the amount of taxes required to implement healthcare for everyone would never be as high as that.

That's just not true.

In 2007, total national health spending was $2.3 TRILLION.

Six years in (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008), the total cost of the Iraq war comes to roughly $600 billion.

the amount spent on national health now is irrelevant. how much more would be required to provide basic care for everyone?

also, i know we have had this conversation before but do you think that human life is less important than corporate greed? do you think people should die because they can't afford health insurance?

I do...if they're doing nothing to contribute to the world then we won't miss them.

...

not funny.

I wasn't being funny. That's really how I feel.

wow... a lot of things are running through my mind but unlike you i have the sense to keep them to myself.

I never hold back...I say outrageous or shocking things....I do this in RL as well...ask anyone who knows me...I'm bizarre and shocking and outrageous but its part of who I am and I wouldn't be the same if I didn't

[rocks 494]

I can't read this whole thread because it will just be the same old stuff.

- Even if someone is not insured here, I understand that they do get care. Can you please give me a hint at who might be paying for this and where that money comes from?

if someone isn't insured and require medication they are expected to pay high costs. no one pays for it because they can't afford it.

[HAL 9000 96]

Under the same logic people that act like leeches to the rest of the world should also be terminated.

Yes! DO IT!

He means us (Americans) "acting as leeches".

Which is why I do not subscribe to thinking along those lines of logic. As underlined above.

[Amby 490]

Under the same logic people that act like leeches to the rest of the world should also be terminated.

Yes! DO IT!

He means us (Americans) "acting as leeches".

I assumed it would be something crazy

I'm all jacked up on cold medicine so I may be a little more nutty today than usual

[rocks 494]

I never hold back...I say outrageous or shocking things....I do this in RL as well...ask anyone who knows me...I'm bizarre and shocking and outrageous but its part of who I am and I wouldn't be the same if I didn't

shocking and outrageous? those are not the words that are appropriate for describing what you just did. don't talk to me.

[Amby 490]

I never hold back...I say outrageous or shocking things....I do this in RL as well...ask anyone who knows me...I'm bizarre and shocking and outrageous but its part of who I am and I wouldn't be the same if I didn't

shocking and outrageous? those are not the words that are appropriate for describing what you just did. don't talk to me.

[mawilson 2,133]

- Even if someone is not insured here, I understand that they do get care. Can you please give me a hint at who might be paying for this and where that money comes from?

You understand wrong.

The uninsured don't get any care unless it's a life-threatening condition and they have no choice.

Under the same logic people that act like leeches to the rest of the world should also be terminated.

Yes! DO IT!

He means us (Americans) "acting as leeches".

Which is why I do not subscribe to thinking along those lines of logic. As underlined above.

Just because we use 25% of the world's oil doesn't make us "leeches".

We don't steal oil from other countries, we pay for it.

[rocks 494]

- Even if someone is not insured here, I understand that they do get care. Can you please give me a hint at who might be paying for this and where that money comes from?

You understand wrong.

The uninsured don't get any care unless it's a life-threatening condition and they have no choice.

isn't that only applicable to hospitalization? as i said before, if you require medication for something life threatening either you pay for it yourself or you don't get it at all...

where do these people get these ideas from that healthcare is free for the "poor"?

[HAL 9000 96]

Under the same logic people that act like leeches to the rest of the world should also be terminated.

Yes! DO IT!

He means us (Americans) "acting as leeches".

I assumed it would be something crazy

I'm all jacked up on cold medicine so I may be a little more nutty today than usual

Should have seen me yesterday on the tail end of Red Bull self-dosing as I came in to work after a 14 hour drive. FUN TIMES.

* HAL 9000 hat back on *

[HAL 9000 96]

- Even if someone is not insured here, I understand that they do get care. Can you please give me a hint at who might be paying for this and where that money comes from?

You understand wrong.

The uninsured don't get any care unless it's a life-threatening condition and they have no choice.

Under the same logic people that act like leeches to the rest of the world should also be terminated.

Yes! DO IT!

He means us (Americans) "acting as leeches".

Which is why I do not subscribe to thinking along those lines of logic. As underlined above.

Just because we use 25% of the world's oil doesn't make us "leeches".

We don't steal oil from other countries, we pay for it.

Oil is only one of the resources. I am sure if you ask enough people around the world about other things, you'd get an interesting consensus about what constitutes fair consumption versus what we currently have on the globe.

That's all besides the fact- if we are willing to act like we can cut off the elderly at out will, then I am sure the same logic can be applied to other areas where arbitrary definitions of consumption are defined not by absolute values but by the entire combination of factors that create such a relationship to begin with.