Cross Burning - archaic practice that should be abolished

[babybunny 2]

Freedom of speech really only applies so long as it doesn't promote hatred and persecution based on that hatred.

You burn a cross in your front yard it sends a very clear, recognisable and unwelcome message to African Americans. For that reason alone it should be outlawed and does not form a part of reasonable free speech.

For the same reason in Germany, you will be arrested if you display Nazi insignia in public or recite nazi slogans.

Yeah then why are the KKK allowed to have rallies?

Because our society tolerates the right of a bunch of uneducated racist fucks to act like uneducated racist fucks.

Yet at the same time, we are totally intolerant of islamic fundamentalists who preach support for Al Qaeda, for instance.

In the end its much the same, both groups are equally offensive and distasteful. Why tolerate one and not the other?

[Fandango 1,440]

why close it? We can't have a discussion about controversial things around here? sheesh!

I posted this article because some here have questioned whether its really all that bad here where I live. And well, yeah, it is. Some don't seem to mind it all that much, they can turn a blind eye to the racism and bigotry, I can't. And I've heard quite enough of it, and every single shift I work I hear more. Then I see ###### like this in the local paper, and it sends shivers. I know these families! They order pizza from me, I've taken their pictures when I worked at the photo studio. It absolutely sickens me that someone in this day and age would even consider doing such a thing to one of their neighbours. And it makes me afraid to live here.

Yeah then why are the KKK allowed to have rallies?

In some areas I'm not sure they are allowed anymore. And if they are allowed, they can't wear their hoods (at least in NC).

Organizations may not hold their meetings while the members present are in costume. To discourage members of the Ku Klux Klan from operating within the state, certain measures such as this one were taken. The KKK was known for their use of white hooded costumes during meetings and demonstrations for purposes of remaining anonymous as well as inflicting fear on others. By making these actions illegal, the organization's power was somewhat weakened.

ok I wasn't really referring to the costumed bit...I was more referring to the bit you cut out... here is the entirety

Freedom of speech really only applies so long as it doesn't promote hatred and persecution based on that hatred.

You burn a cross in your front yard it sends a very clear, recognisable and unwelcome message to African Americans. For that reason alone it should be outlawed and does not form a part of reasonable free speech.

For the same reason in Germany, you will be arrested if you display Nazi insignia in public or recite nazi slogans.

Yeah then why are the KKK allowed to have rallies?

I was addressing the bit I highlighted in red. My response was more proving that there ARE groups who promote hatred and they are alive and well today & they legally protest under the freedom of speech. I picked the KKK cos they were the easiest, but they are not the only ones. What's that minister's name who preaches that 'God hates fags'? And yes, now you can only protest so far from a funeral...but they still are allowed to protest....so in conclusion freedom of speech does NOT only apply so long as it doesnt' promote hatred ...which again was my point and not really anything to do with the particulars like costumery of the participants.

Edited May 27, 2006 by LisaD

[sparkofcreation 0]

My view on the fact is that, as someone said above, uneducated racist chopf##cks should be allowed to act like uneducated racist chopf##ks ... and if, for example, they want to rent a venue in the middle of nowhere and burn a cross there, that's their right (there was a case on this that went to the Supreme Court last year--a farmer rented an empty back field to the KKK for a rally and they burned a case and were prosecuted and sued on free speech grounds--I'd have to look it up because I haven't heard the result). OTOH, burning a cross near someone's house with the intention of intimidating them, then that's a hate crime. And that's how I think it should be.

Edit: The Supreme Court held basically what I said: a cross burned to be intimidating is illegal; a cross burned at a rally is legal.

As for Islamic radicals, I'd say it should be the same thing. There's a big difference between "American culture is sinful!" and "We are commanded to kill Americans!" I would consider the first to be protected free speech, and the second to be speech which incites violence, which is illegal.

BTW I thought about applying for a job in Laredo, Texas, and decided not to partly because the monthly Community Calendar of Events (on the town's official website) included "Annual Klan Wine Tasting at the Downtown Hilton."

Edited May 27, 2006 by sparkofcreation

[babybunny 2]

My view on the fact is that, as someone said above, uneducated racist chopf##cks should be allowed to act like uneducated racist chopf##ks ... and if, for example, they want to rent a venue in the middle of nowhere and burn a cross there, that's their right (there was a case on this that went to the Supreme Court last year--a farmer rented an empty back field to the KKK for a rally and they burned a case and were prosecuted and sued on free speech grounds--I'd have to look it up because I haven't heard the result). OTOH, burning a cross near someone's house with the intention of intimidating them, then that's a hate crime. And that's how I think it should be.

Edit: The Supreme Court held basically what I said: a cross burned to be intimidating is illegal; a cross burned at a rally is legal.

As for Islamic radicals, I'd say it should be the same thing. There's a big difference between "American culture is sinful!" and "We are commanded to kill Americans!" I would consider the first to be protected free speech, and the second to be speech which incites violence, which is illegal.

BTW I thought about applying for a job in Laredo, Texas, and decided not to partly because the monthly Community Calendar of Events (on the town's official website) included "Annual Klan Wine Tasting at the Downtown Hilton."

kudos for standing up for what you belive in..

Edited May 27, 2006 by shonjaved

[almaty 19]

freedom of speech is great and needed in a free society..freedom to express one's hatered at another, due to the person's race, religion, creed etc is not

[Reba 2]

ok I wasn't really referring to the costumed bit...I was more referring to the bit you cut out... here is the entirety

...

I was addressing the bit I highlighted in red. My response was more proving that there ARE groups who promote hatred and they are alive and well today & they legally protest under the freedom of speech. I picked the KKK cos they were the easiest, but they are not the only ones. What's that minister's name who preaches that 'God hates fags'? And yes, now you can only protest so far from a funeral...but they still are allowed to protest....so in conclusion freedom of speech does NOT only apply so long as it doesnt' promote hatred ...which again was my point and not really anything to do with the particulars like costumery of the participants.

and I was addressing the point that in some areas at least, that they may not be able to rally. *shrug* semantics really. They can still rally here in NC, but without their disguises, which was the whole point of the KKK, in that they could terrorize people without anyone being able to point fingers, even if they could find a judge who would keep them in court. Now that they're unmasked, its a bit more difficult for them to lynch undesirables and burn crosses. Because, like the ####### in the article posted, they tend to get caught now

Everyone is entitled to free speech and freedom to gather for peaceful demonstration. But when it advances to hate, violence and intimidation (like the Rev. who incites people to beat gays and protest at soldiers funerals, that guy should be tossed in jail!) they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Whether Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Pagan or other.

[pedroh 21]

I agree with you Reba.. freedom of speech shouldn't be allowed for hatred and stuff like that..

In this side of NC, Lumberton, Pembroke, etc.. the KKK was kicked out by the Lumbees (native american tribe).. in the lumbee history museum in UNC Pembroke they have a hood crossed with an arrow and pics with the locals armed with shotguns and stuff kickin their sorry racist arses out

[silvanski 1]

Destroying symbols or constructions of any kind is the wrong kind of expression.

It's used by people who won't or cannot engage in debate, so that's why they revert to this kind of practice.

[Fandango 1,440]

The gov't should not govern morality. I agree that spewing hate is vile, but once you start censoring what's acceptable and what isn't, then where does it stop?

How long is a piece of string, yanno?

[pedroh 21]

The gov't should not govern morality. I agree that spewing hate is vile, but once you start censoring what's acceptable and what isn't, then where does it stop?

How long is a piece of string, yanno?

i agree.. they allow these chopfukcs to rally but they censored Howard Stern on public radio? #######

also they have this crazy dumbass.. David DUke, former representative of Lousiana.. man.. his speech is the most awful thing i've ever heard.. he's really disgusting..

[antone 0]

Freedom of speech.

Yes, it's repugnant behaviour, but I'm not sure to whom I would assign the power to decide what is or isn't an acceptable opinion or expression. The government?

[almaty 19]

agreed..but there are federal legislation in the books..buring a cross on an african american lawn is a hate crime.....freedom of speech is fine ..but crosses hte line when it is target is a minority of society...per current laws

[Mirorgate 0]

agreed..but there are federal legislation in the books..buring a cross on an african american lawn is a hate crime.....freedom of speech is fine ..but crosses hte line when it is target is a minority of society...per current laws

yeah, but current laws also forbids them to be hunted too

see, laws need to be tougher.. mandatory jail time for hate crimes.

the hunting part be an added bonus

[almaty 19]

agreed..but there are federal legislation in the books..buring a cross on an african american lawn is a hate crime.....freedom of speech is fine ..but crosses hte line when it is target is a minority of society...per current laws

yeah, but current laws also forbids them to be hunted too

see, laws need to be tougher.. mandatory jail time for hate crimes.

the hunting part be an added bonus

they be hunted in the state penn by bubba and his friends

[Fandango 1,440]

agreed..but there are federal legislation in the books..buring a cross on an african american lawn is a hate crime.....freedom of speech is fine ..but crosses hte line when it is target is a minority of society...per current laws

so it's legal to burn a cross on the lawn of a white person?

hrmmm