Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act

[rocks 494]

It was simplified enough for the commoner.

but without that, it means nothing

[Heracles 417]

Perhaps worth the tangent's attention... but perhaps you never received the MEMO that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I would agree that when there is doubt we should never go to war. That was a mistake which was approved by the American congress. Not just GWB and his "administration" alone. America obviously did not learn anything from Vietnam. It has been a huge waste of trillions of dollars and the number one reason I dislike Chenney and his cronies. GWB is just the fall guy on this.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

PS maviwaro. American liberals have a knack at looking at issues through emotion rather than logic. You can bring up any issue and you will find that most liberal responses are based on emotion, rather than logic. Now I am not saying the ultra wing conservatives are any better but since moving here and even when considering some of the responses on various issues here in the OT section alone, this is quite evident and sticks out like a swollen thumb. Take any issue we have discussed in this forum alone and 9/10 times the reponses from known liberals are based on emotion and never on reality. Cough cough Cause and Effect.

I wonder if I should really say what I'm thinking when I read that stuff.

Afraid - I really can't resist.

I certainly wonder where not only advocating corporal punishment but also expressing an interest in taking a personal approach to implementing it falls within the realm of emotion, or reason.

[HAL 9000 96]

Perhaps worth the tangent's attention... but perhaps you never received the MEMO that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I would agree that when there is doubt we should never go to war. That was a mistake which was approved by the American congress. Not just GWB and his "administration" alone. America obviously did not learn anything from Vietnam.

Plenty of folks knew there was no link, and the politics were used to mold the data. So yes, hindsight really is 20/20.

So is having the ability to mention the worth of something as positive when the reasons given for said action are mistaken. And doubt enough there was, beyond rhetoric and lies that were quite reasonably challenged since before the start of the war.

Now curiously, that may have something to tie into the >250K per annum income tax proposal... and it involves lies many people are swallowing in the name of a political campaign that mostly benefits (*surprise*) those that tend to make upwards of >250K per annum.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Perhaps worth the tangent's attention... but perhaps you never received the MEMO that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I would agree that when there is doubt we should never go to war. That was a mistake which was approved by the American congress. Not just GWB and his "administration" alone. America obviously did not learn anything from Vietnam. It has been a huge waste of trillions of dollars and the number one reason I dislike Chenney and his cronies. GWB is just the fall guy on this.

Many people didn't need hindsight on Iraq - most if not all of what happened there post-invasion was entirely predictable from the get-go.

[thetreble 19]

That was a mistake which was approved by the American congress.

And not approved by the UN.

[symbiosis 0]

When I first read this earlier today I right away remembered from reading on Obama's own website him say that he would let the tax cuts from many years ago just expire. I also remember that would mean everyone except the lower class making under 22,000 (Could be off on this figure) a year pay more taxes. This generally means we will all be more patriotic now and not just the over 250,000.

How is he gonna explain that away? I am hoping he just deletes that info from the website except many I know has already downloaded the contents of his website.

Obama is a Socialist. He has several socialist plans (especially socialized health care) that is gonna be very expensive and bureaucratic nightmarish. It is gonna have to be paid for and trust me just recinding the tax cuts will not begin to pay for it.

He can explain it by pointing out that you are wrong.

[Heracles 417]

And not approved by the UN.

What did the UN do with regards to the many violations by Saddam? Zilch. The UN is good in theory but in reality has no power to do anything when #### hits the fan. IE EG The various wars and genocide being carried out in Africa at this very moment.

[HAL 9000 96]

Perhaps worth the tangent's attention... but perhaps you never received the MEMO that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I would agree that when there is doubt we should never go to war. That was a mistake which was approved by the American congress. Not just GWB and his "administration" alone. America obviously did not learn anything from Vietnam. It has been a huge waste of trillions of dollars and the number one reason I dislike Chenney and his cronies. GWB is just the fall guy on this.

Many people didn't need hindsight on Iraq - most if not all of what happened there post-invasion was entirely predictable from the get-go.

And ironically, a debate borne out of emotions. Given to us by pretty much the opposite of American liberals.

And not approved by the UN.

What did the UN do with regards to the many violations by Saddam? Zilch. The UN is good in theory but in reality has no power to do anything when #### hits the fan. IE EG The various wars and genocide being carried out in Africa at this very moment.

Put a couple of oil wells in those regions. Then Uncle Sam will notice.

[Heracles 417]

And ironically, a debate borne out of emotions. Given to us by pretty much the opposite of American liberals.

There where a lot of people after 9/11 who wanted to payback somebody. This was the problem. Emotional knee jerk reactions like this usually do not end well. I know it well, I am guilty of it sometimes myself.

Nonetheless, we are there now and need to work with the Iraqi government to stabilize their country.

[HAL 9000 96]

And ironically, a debate borne out of emotions. Given to us by pretty much the opposite of American liberals.

There where a lot of people after 9/11 who wanted to payback somebody. This was the problem. Emotional knee jerk reactions like this usually do not end well. I know it well, I am guilty of it sometimes myself.

Nonetheless, we are there now and need to work with the Iraqi government to stabilize their country.

Spending more by staying there won't help.

'Exit strategy' time.

Before any presidency- Obama or McCain... will have to tax everyone to be able to avoid the tax burden on future generations. There's enough to pay for already in credit and in the massive debt we now have.

[symbiosis 0]

hey, somebody's got to pay for a trillion dollar war and the bailout of the GOP's Wall Street croonies. Or did you forget that part?

of course they did...besides let the folks making 45,000 do it..they done it for the last 8 years

oh please, I am paying more than my fair share of tax (as are a huge percentage of the people in my community, oh and my husband too). I don't complain about it but I don't want some numbskull coming in telling me I have to pay more!! That really is taking the pi$$.

by my estimation, 1 out of every 4 dollars i make goes to taxes somehow - and that's not even counting gasoline. just state, federal, personal and property taxes.

hey, me too. there is a price to be paid for living in society. Now, if we had that $trillion spent on a useless war back ...

but you approved of that, just had no interest in paying for it.

i wasn't aware that state taxes paid the federal deficit

I did notice that you included federal taxes in your list, or am i mistaken? In any case, i'm sure you'd be the first to say there weren't enough police or to complain about the potholes or that the schools suck.

that just means you want something for nothing. why is it that if one conducts one's personal life like that, you're a freeloader but if you conduct your civic life like that you're a "patriot" ?

[Heracles 417]

Put a couple of oil wells in those regions. Then Uncle Sam will notice.

Warning! this will be perceived as a tangent..

This sort of left wing attitude is not helping America's reputation abroad. While people like yourself and Michael Moore may think you are sticking it to GWB, you are actually ruining America's reputation.

I noticed the other day, when you look at the movies of the 80's and 90's it was all about getting the bad guys. The south American drug dealers or the terrorists. Whereas when you look the today's films, they are all about how corrupt the US government supposedly is. How there is always someone fighting the corruption of the big bad US federal government and their agencies. What image do liberal Americans, the majority of clownywood, think this is painting for Americans abroad. Not a good one that is for sure. Yeah sure they are movies but the constant flow of negativity paints a picture for those abroad. I just saw a recent study which showed that a good majority of young Australians, for example, do not trust the US government.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Aficionado

[IAMX 3,055]

Nothing wrong with paying for taxes when they're going to an essential service, like Social Security or Universal Health Care. However, they're not, so I doubt Biden could convince me, with this government's ineptitude, that this would be necessary.

[Cassie 8]

I just saw a recent study which showed that a good majority of young Australians, for example, do not trust the US government.

They must have been reading OT, particularly the healthcare debate threads. I see plenty of Americans who don't trust their government in there.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Cassie