Is Sarah Palin a Secessionist?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

The jury is still out on how one can cross party lines for reasons other than candidate-supported issues... and that is what this reeks of. Unless, of course, the support comes from someone originally devout to the issues supported by the candidate to be voted for in the first place. Spite or no spite.

People cross party lines all the time, Mavi, it's how Ronald Reagan won the 84 election in a 49 state landslide and how Bush Sr. took 40 states. These Reagan Democrats are not single issue voters necessarily and are socially conservative. Palin is probably an appealing choice for many of them.

I'm sure she is. The way I read it - the VP picks have been intended to appeal to the perceived deficits of the main ticket candidates.

Obama = no experience. Picks Biden - an established party figure

McCain = perceived as "old school" - picks Palin to prove that he represents change.

Exactly

All this discussion about her views on abortion and teenage pregnancy have overlooked one of her most important accomplishments as governor - raising taxes on oil and giving a $1200 energy rebate back to voters. This is resonate with a lot of voters.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The jury is still out on how one can cross party lines for reasons other than candidate-supported issues... and that is what this reeks of. Unless, of course, the support comes from someone originally devout to the issues supported by the candidate to be voted for in the first place. Spite or no spite.

People cross party lines all the time, Mavi, it's how Ronald Reagan won the 84 election in a 49 state landslide and how Bush Sr. took 40 states. These Reagan Democrats are not single issue voters necessarily and are socially conservative. Palin is probably an appealing choice for many of them.

I'm sure she is. The way I read it - the VP picks have been intended to appeal to the perceived deficits of the main ticket candidates.

Obama = no experience. Picks Biden - an established party figure

McCain = perceived as "old school" - picks Palin to prove that he represents change.

Exactly

All this discussion about her views on abortion and teenage pregnancy have overlooked one of her most important accomplishments as governor - raising taxes on oil and giving a $1200 energy rebate back to voters. This is resonate with a lot of voters.

It probably will - given the economic situation. Personally I think social issues (i.e. nice to haves) will take a back-seat to the larger issues. Even so they have to pay lip service to those issues if nothing else.

[HAL 9000 96]

I see troll is on a one man smear mission. Does this mean that Obama's association with a preacher that says "God Damn America and the US of KKK" and starting his political career at a terrorists house that said on 9/11 that he didn't do enough is also fair game now?

How about the boards that Obama sat on with Ayers? Does that make Obama sympathetic with everything that organization does and says?

It might be more damaging if Obama was a member of an extremist political party like the Black Panthers.

Membership of political parties (especially those on the fringe) might be seen to tie more directly to a person's beliefs and ideology than vague associations to controversial individuals.

You call a 20 year membership in a church a vague association? You say that kicking off your political career in a terrorists house a vague association? Interesting.

What's interesting about it? Those affiliations need to be vetted like everything else - but the connections are rather more nebulous than membership in a political party with a specific agenda. Membership in a party usually implies support of the party's ideas.

BTW - The Trinity United Church of Christ is one of the biggest churches in Chicago and a chapter of one of the biggest churches in the country. A shrewd guess perhaps but I don't think everyone who attends service there is some sort of mad extremist...

A bold guess, apparently.

I see troll is on a one man smear mission. Does this mean that Obama's association with a preacher that says "God Damn America and the US of KKK" and starting his political career at a terrorists house that said on 9/11 that he didn't do enough is also fair game now?

How about the boards that Obama sat on with Ayers? Does that make Obama sympathetic with everything that organization does and says?

It might be more damaging if Obama was a member of an extremist political party like the Black Panthers.

Membership of political parties (especially those on the fringe) might be seen to tie more directly to a person's beliefs and ideology than vague associations to controversial individuals.

You call a 20 year membership in a church a vague association? You say that kicking off your political career in a terrorists house a vague association? Interesting.

Maybe you could clarify for us here... is that church as an organization promoting secession from the USA?

Good one brother Gary. If only you could address the concern...

[HAL 9000 96]

The jury is still out on how one can cross party lines for reasons other than candidate-supported issues... and that is what this reeks of. Unless, of course, the support comes from someone originally devout to the issues supported by the candidate to be voted for in the first place. Spite or no spite.

People cross party lines all the time, Mavi, it's how Ronald Reagan won the 84 election in a 49 state landslide and how Bush Sr. took 40 states. These Reagan Democrats are not single issue voters necessarily and are socially conservative. Palin is probably an appealing choice for many of them.

Perhaps they could be Robin... I do see where crossing the party divide gets support. What I don't see is where one could jump ship (if ever they were onboard, if you know what I mean) to a candidate that supports issues (not single issues, but rather a whole slew of issues) quite contrary to their chosen primary candidate. Something about that just doesn't add up in the grand book of logic.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I see troll is on a one man smear mission. Does this mean that Obama's association with a preacher that says "God Damn America and the US of KKK" and starting his political career at a terrorists house that said on 9/11 that he didn't do enough is also fair game now?

How about the boards that Obama sat on with Ayers? Does that make Obama sympathetic with everything that organization does and says?

It might be more damaging if Obama was a member of an extremist political party like the Black Panthers.

Membership of political parties (especially those on the fringe) might be seen to tie more directly to a person's beliefs and ideology than vague associations to controversial individuals.

You call a 20 year membership in a church a vague association? You say that kicking off your political career in a terrorists house a vague association? Interesting.

What's interesting about it? Those affiliations need to be vetted like everything else - but the connections are rather more nebulous than membership in a political party with a specific agenda. Membership in a party usually implies support of the party's ideas.

BTW - The Trinity United Church of Christ is one of the biggest churches in Chicago and a chapter of one of the biggest churches in the country. A shrewd guess perhaps but I don't think everyone who attends service there is some sort of mad extremist...

A bold guess, apparently.

I see troll is on a one man smear mission. Does this mean that Obama's association with a preacher that says "God Damn America and the US of KKK" and starting his political career at a terrorists house that said on 9/11 that he didn't do enough is also fair game now?

How about the boards that Obama sat on with Ayers? Does that make Obama sympathetic with everything that organization does and says?

It might be more damaging if Obama was a member of an extremist political party like the Black Panthers.

Membership of political parties (especially those on the fringe) might be seen to tie more directly to a person's beliefs and ideology than vague associations to controversial individuals.

You call a 20 year membership in a church a vague association? You say that kicking off your political career in a terrorists house a vague association? Interesting.

Maybe you could clarify for us here... is that church as an organization promoting secession from the USA?

Good one brother Gary. If only you could address the concern...

I think Brother Gary has gone back to addressing these topics as some sort of perceived ideological contest between "our side" and "theirs". Hence every criticism of one politician must be countered by criticism of another.

I find that particularly interesting - given that there are plenty of other (non-immigration) forums out there where people can discuss politics in a grown-up way without buying into the partisan back and forth. I wonder what's so "special" about VJ...

[HAL 9000 96]

Well to be honest, VJ Rocks...

And there is something probably most of us here have in common... which is an excellent starting point to share our differences. I most definitely add logic and critical thinking to that list of things to share.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well to be honest, VJ Rocks...

And there is something probably most of us here have in common... which is an excellent starting point to share our differences. I most definitely add logic and critical thinking to that list of things to share.

Seriously - I've been on forums that have much more decorum than this when discussing political topics. Its very strange.

[rebeccajo 14]

This story definitely has substance and any American should at least be aware of her affiliation with this organization....and find out just where her loyalty stands with the U.S. of A..

It's laughable to believe Palin is trying yank Alaska out of the union. Loyalty? Is this where you start to question her patriotism? Have you now or have you ever been a member of the Alaska Independence Party?

If she was a Democratic candidate, you would be all over it.

You betcha!

She'd be called a ######, a witch and everything in between.

If that woman has had years of experience in government, she'd be called the representative of same old politics . And by none other than fellow democrats! You know, they're very big into fresh faces in politics and yes, different kinda politics.

Wow , Sarah Palin has proven that she could not only challenge but overcome establishment politics by challenging and then over throwing the incumbent of his own party!!

Wow! what feat! And all that without hanging on to a dirty big city political machine.

She indeed represents Change We Can Believe In !!!

Pssssst.....Metta.

Voting for a woman - just because she's a woman - I don't think that's what the suffragettes had in mind when they were marching for the right to have a say in government.

That right to vote is too 'hard earned' to throw it away. Whether you're female or male. Single issue voters; ethnic voters; gender voters - it's all 'low brain power' thinking.

Ahhhh the hubris of the cultist...

Those who don't vote your way are:

of low brain power

single issue voters (self-assumed omniscience)

are bigots, racists, clingers to religion and guns

THAT"S RICH

*shrugs*

I never used the words bigots, racists, clingers to religion or guns.

And I never said those who don't vote my way are of low brain power.

I said 'single issue voters' are.

I believe that with my heart and soul. Always have; always will.

If you vote for a woman solely because she's female, that's a waste of your vote. The same for voting against a woman. The same for voting for or against a man. The same for voting against or for someone because of race, religion or ethnicity. The same for voting based upon your stance on abortion, guns, taxes, immigration or ANY single issue.

Anyone who votes for or against someone based upon a single criteria or issue is wasting what our forefathers fought so hard for. You'll not convince me otherwise.

[metta 0]

This story definitely has substance and any American should at least be aware of her affiliation with this organization....and find out just where her loyalty stands with the U.S. of A..

It's laughable to believe Palin is trying yank Alaska out of the union. Loyalty? Is this where you start to question her patriotism? Have you now or have you ever been a member of the Alaska Independence Party?

If she was a Democratic candidate, you would be all over it.

You betcha!

She'd be called a ######, a witch and everything in between.

If that woman has had years of experience in government, she'd be called the representative of same old politics . And by none other than fellow democrats! You know, they're very big into fresh faces in politics and yes, different kinda politics.

Wow , Sarah Palin has proven that she could not only challenge but overcome establishment politics by challenging and then over throwing the incumbent of his own party!!

Wow! what feat! And all that without hanging on to a dirty big city political machine.

She indeed represents Change We Can Believe In !!!

Pssssst.....Metta.

Voting for a woman - just because she's a woman - I don't think that's what the suffragettes had in mind when they were marching for the right to have a say in government.

That right to vote is too 'hard earned' to throw it away. Whether you're female or male. Single issue voters; ethnic voters; gender voters - it's all 'low brain power' thinking.

Ahhhh the hubris of the cultist...

Those who don't vote your way are:

of low brain power

single issue voters (self-assumed omniscience)

are bigots, racists, clingers to religion and guns

THAT"S RICH

*shrugs*

I never used the words bigots, racists, clingers to religion or guns.

And I never said those who don't vote my way are of low brain power.

I said 'single issue voters' are.

I believe that with my heart and soul. Always have; always will.

If you vote for a woman solely because she's female, that's a waste of your vote. The same for voting against a woman. The same for voting for or against a man. The same for voting against or for someone because of race, religion or ethnicity. The same for voting based upon your stance on abortion, guns, taxes, immigration or ANY single issue.

Anyone who votes for or against someone based upon a single criteria or issue is wasting what our forefathers fought so hard for. You'll not convince me otherwise.

By the same token, my comment to which you responded did not address any kind of reason -single issue or otherwise-for voting one way or the other.

I was responding to "If she was a Democratic candidate, you would be all over it." It was on the issue of how Palin would be treated if Palin were a democrat.

Now regarding single issue voters, you can find them by the bushel among voters supporting any given candidate-former or presently running. Do you assume that all the voters who will vote for the same candidate as you are , are all enlightened "ones" with a global perspective of all issues we face as a nation?

Judging from the reactions of voters at primary voting for your candidate based their choice on one word- CHANGE without knowing what kind or any specifics beyond the word. It is not inconceivable that they are one issue voters energized by identity politics.

I used bigots etc, because that's what "low-braining thinking" that you attributed those single issue voters implies.

[rebeccajo 14]

This story definitely has substance and any American should at least be aware of her affiliation with this organization....and find out just where her loyalty stands with the U.S. of A..

It's laughable to believe Palin is trying yank Alaska out of the union. Loyalty? Is this where you start to question her patriotism? Have you now or have you ever been a member of the Alaska Independence Party?

If she was a Democratic candidate, you would be all over it.

You betcha!

She'd be called a ######, a witch and everything in between.

If that woman has had years of experience in government, she'd be called the representative of same old politics . And by none other than fellow democrats! You know, they're very big into fresh faces in politics and yes, different kinda politics.

Wow , Sarah Palin has proven that she could not only challenge but overcome establishment politics by challenging and then over throwing the incumbent of his own party!!

Wow! what feat! And all that without hanging on to a dirty big city political machine.

She indeed represents Change We Can Believe In !!!

Pssssst.....Metta.

Voting for a woman - just because she's a woman - I don't think that's what the suffragettes had in mind when they were marching for the right to have a say in government.

That right to vote is too 'hard earned' to throw it away. Whether you're female or male. Single issue voters; ethnic voters; gender voters - it's all 'low brain power' thinking.

Ahhhh the hubris of the cultist...

Those who don't vote your way are:

of low brain power

single issue voters (self-assumed omniscience)

are bigots, racists, clingers to religion and guns

THAT"S RICH

*shrugs*

I never used the words bigots, racists, clingers to religion or guns.

And I never said those who don't vote my way are of low brain power.

I said 'single issue voters' are.

I believe that with my heart and soul. Always have; always will.

If you vote for a woman solely because she's female, that's a waste of your vote. The same for voting against a woman. The same for voting for or against a man. The same for voting against or for someone because of race, religion or ethnicity. The same for voting based upon your stance on abortion, guns, taxes, immigration or ANY single issue.

Anyone who votes for or against someone based upon a single criteria or issue is wasting what our forefathers fought so hard for. You'll not convince me otherwise.

By the same token, my comment to which you responded did not address any kind of reason -single issue or otherwise-for voting one way or the other.

I was responding to "If she was a Democratic candidate, you would be all over it." It was on the issue of how Palin would be treated if Palin were a democrat.

Now regarding single issue voters, you can find them by the bushel among voters supporting any given candidate-former or presently running. Do you assume that all the voters who will vote for the same candidate as you are , are all enlightened "ones" with a global perspective of all issues we face as a nation?

Judging from the reactions of voters at primary voting for your candidate based their choice on one word- CHANGE without knowing what kind or any specifics beyond the word. It is not inconceivable that they are one issue voters energized by identity politics.

I used bigots etc, because that's what "low-braining thinking" that you attributed those single issue voters implies.

Metta -

I certainly don't assume that everyone voting for the same candidate I plan to vote for is 'enlightened'.

I also think it's unfair for you to assume everyone voting for a certain candidate subscribes to 'identity politics'. Unless, that is, you have the powers of Kreskin and are able to read their minds.

I also think it would be helpful for you to learn how to NOT overread what people write; how to interpret what you do read without inflicting your bias upon that interpretation; and how to construct a sentence that is something other than convoluted.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The cat took a dump on the mat.

[rebeccajo 14]

The cat took a dump on the mat.

Simple. Clear. Concise.

I like it.

[HAL 9000 96]

The cat took a dump on the mat.

[metta 0]

This story definitely has substance and any American should at least be aware of her affiliation with this organization....and find out just where her loyalty stands with the U.S. of A..

It's laughable to believe Palin is trying yank Alaska out of the union. Loyalty? Is this where you start to question her patriotism? Have you now or have you ever been a member of the Alaska Independence Party?

If she was a Democratic candidate, you would be all over it.

You betcha!

She'd be called a ######, a witch and everything in between.

If that woman has had years of experience in government, she'd be called the representative of same old politics . And by none other than fellow democrats! You know, they're very big into fresh faces in politics and yes, different kinda politics.

Wow , Sarah Palin has proven that she could not only challenge but overcome establishment politics by challenging and then over throwing the incumbent of his own party!!

Wow! what feat! And all that without hanging on to a dirty big city political machine.

She indeed represents Change We Can Believe In !!!

Pssssst.....Metta.

Voting for a woman - just because she's a woman - I don't think that's what the suffragettes had in mind when they were marching for the right to have a say in government.

That right to vote is too 'hard earned' to throw it away. Whether you're female or male. Single issue voters; ethnic voters; gender voters - it's all 'low brain power' thinking.

Ahhhh the hubris of the cultist...

Those who don't vote your way are:

of low brain power

single issue voters (self-assumed omniscience)

are bigots, racists, clingers to religion and guns

THAT"S RICH

*shrugs*

I never used the words bigots, racists, clingers to religion or guns.

And I never said those who don't vote my way are of low brain power.

I said 'single issue voters' are.

I believe that with my heart and soul. Always have; always will.

If you vote for a woman solely because she's female, that's a waste of your vote. The same for voting against a woman. The same for voting for or against a man. The same for voting against or for someone because of race, religion or ethnicity. The same for voting based upon your stance on abortion, guns, taxes, immigration or ANY single issue.

Anyone who votes for or against someone based upon a single criteria or issue is wasting what our forefathers fought so hard for. You'll not convince me otherwise.

By the same token, my comment to which you responded did not address any kind of reason -single issue or otherwise-for voting one way or the other.

I was responding to "If she was a Democratic candidate, you would be all over it." It was on the issue of how Palin would be treated if Palin were a democrat.

Now regarding single issue voters, you can find them by the bushel among voters supporting any given candidate-former or presently running. Do you assume that all the voters who will vote for the same candidate as you are , are all enlightened "ones" with a global perspective of all issues we face as a nation?

Judging from the reactions of voters at primary voting for your candidate based their choice on one word- CHANGE without knowing what kind or any specifics beyond the word. It is not inconceivable that they are one issue voters energized by identity politics.

I used bigots etc, because that's what "low-braining thinking" that you attributed those single issue voters implies.

Metta -

I certainly don't assume that everyone voting for the same candidate I plan to vote for is 'enlightened'.

I also think it's unfair for you to assume everyone voting for a certain candidate subscribes to 'identity politics'. Unless, that is, you have the powers of Kreskin and are able to read their minds.

I also think it would be helpful for you to learn how to NOT overread what people write; how to interpret what you do read without inflicting your bias upon that interpretation; and how to construct a sentence that is something other than convoluted.

I said "it is not inconceivable" RJo, not assume.

Can't comprehend nuances eh?

The cat took a dump on the on the mat...

#### cat is not amused...

low-braining thinking..

Ahh, now I get it..

Edited September 2, 2008 by metta

[GaryC 7]

McCain camp: Questions on Palin's party a 'smear'

By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer

8 minutes ago

ST. PAUL, Minn. - John McCain's campaign said Tuesday that rival Barack Obama's campaign was spreading "smears" about Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's past political affiliations. Yet, some of Palin's previous political activities are a matter of dispute.

At issue are claims by members of the Alaskan Independence Party that Palin was once associated with it. The party, some of whose members have advocated secession from the United States, wants to place all federal lands in Alaska under state control.

The McCain campaign released voter registration documents Tuesday dating to 1990 in which Palin lists herself as a Republican. Campaign spokesman Brian Rogers said Palin has been a registered Republican since 1982, and has never been a member of the Alaskan Independence Party.

Palin addressed the Independence Party's state convention by video earlier this year, welcoming the party to Fairbanks. She gave no indication of a current or past connection to the party.

"Your party plays an important role in our state's politics," she said in the video, which is posted on the party's Web site. "I've always said that competition is so good, and that applies to political parties as well."

Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, told ABC News that Palin and her husband, Todd, belonged to the party in 1994. Mark Chryson, chairman of the Independence Party from 1995 to 2002, told the network that Palin attended the party's convention in 1994. He said he was not certain if she was a party member, and party records do not date back that far.

Obama advisers and surrogates have also linked Palin to conservative former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan. An Associated Press story from Alaska, dated July 17, 1999, states that Palin, then the mayor of the small town of Wasilla, was wearing a Buchanan button during a Buchanan visit to Alaska.

The Miami Herald this week quoted an e-mail from Obama Florida spokesman Mark Bubriski that stated: "Palin was a supporter of Pat Buchanan, a right-winger or as many Jews call him: a Nazi sympathizer."

The McCain campaign says Palin supported Steve Forbes' campaign in 1999.

"Supporters of Barack Obama are engaged in an unfortunate and nasty smear campaign," said Rogers, the McCain spokesman.

While Obama advisers and surrogates have drawn attention to Palin's political associations, the campaign has strictly avoided any comment on issues related to Palin's family, specifically anything focused on her 17-year-old daughter's out-of wedlock pregnancy.

"I think people's families are off limits and people's children are especially off limits," Obama said Monday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_..._palin_politics