Muslims in West Africa

[Zi Zi 0]

Okay I am free!

Since I don't like to deal in generalizations, I will simply write my comments based upon my own experiences. If I were in your shoes (and this is what I did) I would sit down and talk about the expectations regarding how you two will practice your respective religions. Certain questions could be asked, like whether you are going to fast at Ramadan or whether you will recognize certain holidays and if so how will you do it? In my experience these questions were answered in a series of conversations rather than one long talk. Prior to getting married we had talked extensively about our respective faith practices and we both came into the relationship with prior knowledge of the other's faith because he has a whole side of his family that is Christian, and I have people in my life that are Muslim. Plus I just accepted the fact that this conversation will be ongoing because things do change. Once we established the expectations, there has been little internal conflict for me.

Based on what you've written, both of you seem fairly open to understanding each other's faith practices, so it should be easy to start the talk about the expectations on your next visit. Also make it clear that you accept who he is and support what he has to do to follow his faith practice. Make it clear that he should continue to act as he normally would. There is nothing good to come out of him hiding or holding back if you two plan to be married. We have succeeded thus far by being completely open about what we feel or our concerns about the differences. But I think the key is for each SO to accept and encourage the other to be a good practicant.

As far as hanging the pictures of the religious figures in his car (I think you are talking about the "serigne") this is very common in Senegal. Not sure that your SO display of his serigne or teacher speaks to how strict a practicant he is. Only he can answer that. You should probably ask more questions about that particular thing to get some additional insight.

All in all it sounds like you are both very open, which should work in your favor! I felt like I was rambling above, so if you have specific questions let me know!

And I am happy to know that there are other Sub-Saharan couples like us. I really thought I was the only one here...so it's nice to know we are not alone!

Dear Taurean,

Thank you for the reply. I definitely will have a talk with him in Oct. in person. I don't want to do it via email or on the phone.

I did ask him about the Serigne, and his answer just made everything more unclear, but at the time I didn't want to pursue it any further since we were on the way to airport and I really didn't want to have a in depth conversation about religion at that time. He told me it was a picture of a teacher he use to follow but didn't really anymore. Oh ..so I ask why and he said he just didn't. I was wondering why his still had the picture.

There is so much that we need to discuss like ZeeNasah stated like drinking alcohol, talking to members of the opposite sex, etc etc. Also not just religious differences but cultural.

I do feel a lot of anxiety at times when I am in a social setting with my SO. I worry because I feel like I have to deal with 3 cultures..them African Muslims, me being American Christian and me being African. This being said no one in Senegal has ever made me feel bad or reprimanded me for any behavior. When in Nigerian if I commit any social faux pas my family will let me know. In Senegal there has been times that I have been unsure what to do.

For example the first time we went to a social gathering being a Ibgo you go in and shake hands with everyone in the room...so thats what I did. I was nervous because I read that some Muslim men do not shake womens hands. Everyone shook my hand none of the men recoiled. (When I am in Senegal for business I do not offer my hand to men to shake ) Then at the end of the night I did the American thing by giving everyone a hug.

I know that I will just have to live and learn and the more time I spend with his family the more comfortable I will feel. I just hope that until then I don't seriously insult anyone. Also I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea that I am not happy with him. We have so much fun together..but I am mature enough to know that there is more to marriage than the fun to make it work

[Zi Zi 0]

HI, MY FINANCE IS A MUSLIM HE ACTED THE SAME WAY.IT ALSO,CONCERN ME.I TOLD HIM IF HE WAS NOT GOING TO PRAY ,THE WAY HE WAS BEFORE I CAME I WAS GOING TO START BACK EATING PORK.(LOL) HE SAID HE WILL START BACK PRAYING WENT I LEAVE.HE NEED TO GO THROUGH A CLEANING CEREMONY. BECAUSE WE WHERE HAVING SEX.AND WAS NOT MARRIED.

I don't have to worry about the pork for some reason when I was in my twentys If found that whenever I ate pork it would make me sick. When I tell people I don't eat pork those who don't know me think its for religious purposes.

What kind of issues are you thinking of? My husband is a practicing muslim and I am a practicing christian. He comes to church with me and I go to mosque with him. (I don't fast though, I'm too greedy. Oh and a diabetic. )

I am not really sure....I just feel like there is some issues out there that I am not aware of. My SO has never asked me to to to Mosque and to be honest I wish he would. (I have been before but not with him). When I first met him I made it clear that I would never convert to Islam (not that he asked) And I have no wish for him to become Catholic. I am worried that he might think that I have a problem with him being Muslim so he hides that part of himself from me. I don't have a problem at all.

In his car and on his key chain he keeps a picture of one of his religious leaders. I am a devote Catholic but don't carry a picture of the Pope around. It is little things like that plus what I heard that tells me he his a more devote Muslim then what I see. Yes, if that is the case it really bothers me that he feels that he has to hides that side when I am around. I won't care any more or less for him based on his religion. Like I said before I hope to clear everything up in Oct. but just wanted to see if there was any other issues pertaining to religion that I might be missing that we need to discuss... for example like you stated food and fasting.

Bassi doesn't really speak about his religion. I don't think it's something that needs to be spoken about in his culture. I mean, like having a special conversation. So, your SO may not be hiding anything. He may just not normally feel a need to speak specifically about religious issues or practices. I spend a lot of time in church. I am very active in my church and my daughter attends a christian school. When something is such an integral part of your life, it's hard not to have your husband also be a part of it. He still doesn't think Jesus is the son of God, but he loves God and that's what matters most to me. I do make an effort to understand his needs, which means understanding his religion. I know that when I'm grocery shopping from next week, I have to have foods in the house that allow him to begin his fast and end his fast for Ramadan. That's something I wouldn't have had to think about before. He'll make special offerings, the way we often do at Easter and Christmas at my church. I have to understand his religion to plan our life around it and incorporate it into our life together. In this case ignorance is not bliss. I also wear head coverings in Ghana out of respect for his family even though they know I am a christian. For Bassi and I, religion is an integral part of our lives, so understanding each others religions is necessary to intertwining our lives. Bassi prays with me over tithes and I help him get together his offering. He prays with me at the altar in church and I pray in the back of the mosque (though sometimes I just play with the babies, but he can't see me anyway ) It's an ongoing discussion. I think you should start talking about it with your SO now. It's not a sit down and talk for 5 hours and everything is fixed kind of thing. It's more like you initiate an open discussion and maintain flexibility to deal with issues as they arise. For us, it's about ongoing communication and adjustment as with EVERYTHING at this point in our marraige.

I was just concerned that if he prays and goes to Mosque when I am not there, he should feel comfortable doing so when I am there.

I love playing with the babies also...his family doesn't understand why I don't want another one. The best part is giving them back at the end of the night

[taurean 0]

Zi Zi:

You are definitely taking the right approach in all of this (IMO). Talking to your FI about religion is probably best done in person, like you said. As Zainab said, this is an ongoing conversation and you won't be able to digest it all or come to any conclusions in one sitting. So for that reason it's important to keep the dialogue going. In addition, you may want to do further inquiry/research on your own into Islam in Senegal specifically. It's really quite interesting and probably will allow you to have a focus point for your conversations. For example, if you had some knowledge about the Serignes in Senegal and specifically your FI's Serigne then that would help to better understand your FI's philosophies and possibly start the conversation as to why he no longer follows this teacher.

Again speaking from my experience, I too was a little curious about how I would be received in a predominantly Muslim country, but I was really surprised at the openness in Senegal. I went there prior to meeting my husband so I was able to figure many things out without him near me at all times. I probably made some social mistakes, but luckily I had people around me to tell me the right thing to do. And they were very kind about it. Since you have been in Senegal I am sure that you realize that the people are very open. I wouldn't worry so much about making a faux pas, because Senegalese tend to understand that you are a 'stranger.' Also keep in mind that though Senegal is a predominantly Muslim country, they are not a theocracy. For that reason, one family's way of living could be vastly different from another's. So again, it is really important to talk about and observe what is going on in your FI's family to get a better understanding. I have learned so much by just watching and listening to my family over there. If I am an unsure in a social situation and hubby is there I will just ask.

I am sure that once you two have talked in October you will have a better understanding of his views. And please don't worry about what anyone on here thinks of your relationship. You have valid questions and concerns! It's really great to read your posts because I can definitely relate.

Edited August 22, 2008 by taurean

[Linguere 0]

I think everyone has given you some great information! I guess I just want to second what just about everyone said...Taurean mentioned reading more about Islam in Senegal in particular. You could ask what particular brotherhood of Islam your SO belongs to. The Mourides have a large number, but they are not definitely not the only one; I think there are about 5 now. If he follows a particular sëriñ or teacher, then you can read more or find out more about that particular sëriñ. Like Z said before, talking about Islam isn't a daily conversation because it is something that is simply lived. I used to be a practicing Muslim, but still my husband and I had long discussions (and still do) about blending our lives with our slightly differing beliefs. We agreed that if we had children that they would be exposed to both of our belief systems. Muslim men can marry Christian women and so there isn't a religious conflict, but as everyone has said here, the main thing is to have open communication with each other about any expectations or special things that need to be observed at particular times. I wouldn't eat in front of my husband during Ramadan, but he wouldn't tell me not to either.

The other thing that came to my mind was that although we have to be tolerant with each other and you might not want to offend anyone, for me the most important thing is to be free and be yourself. I have spent a lot of time in Senegal, and if I did something majorly wrong (I once accidentally said in Wolof you are lying [in the African American way] when I should have said you are mistaken) they would tell me, but small things may not be something that I want to adapt to their way, even if I remain respectful of it. In most cases, people allow you to be who you are. Senegal's Islam is quite moderate. Women don't cover their heads (as you have seen in Senegal) unless they want to when they are not in the mosque. Nobody freaks out if your arms or the bottom parts of your legs are showing, especially in Dakar. All people and families are unique, so it's hard to say what the expectations of your new family will be...just ask.

As everyone has said, just talk to him and don't worry.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

I have some input of a different nature that I've found works well with Bassi. That is, when there is something I want to discuss with him (not like what's for dinner), I tell him ahead of time. I say this because it's good to do your own research and have an idea of what you want to discuss with him, but if he doesn't know this is coming, it's almost like he feels "attacked". That may not be the right word to use, but it's like when you spring it on them, they become more defensive and closed until they have had time to process it. So, if you hope to have a discussion in October face to face that's productive, you might want to let him know what's coming. Or it could end up being a speech, where you talk 'til you're blue in the face and he sits silently, as our African men are known to do.

[Ta Ta 1]

I have some input of a different nature that I've found works well with Bassi. That is, when there is something I want to discuss with him (not like what's for dinner), I tell him ahead of time. I say this because it's good to do your own research and have an idea of what you want to discuss with him, but if he doesn't know this is coming, it's almost like he feels "attacked". That may not be the right word to use, but it's like when you spring it on them, they become more defensive and closed until they have had time to process it. So, if you hope to have a discussion in October face to face that's productive, you might want to let him know what's coming. Or it could end up being a speech, where you talk 'til you're blue in the face and he sits silently, as our African men are known to do.

But when I say that to him he says : Is it something bad ? And he wants to know then and there

But I am the same way.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

I have some input of a different nature that I've found works well with Bassi. That is, when there is something I want to discuss with him (not like what's for dinner), I tell him ahead of time. I say this because it's good to do your own research and have an idea of what you want to discuss with him, but if he doesn't know this is coming, it's almost like he feels "attacked". That may not be the right word to use, but it's like when you spring it on them, they become more defensive and closed until they have had time to process it. So, if you hope to have a discussion in October face to face that's productive, you might want to let him know what's coming. Or it could end up being a speech, where you talk 'til you're blue in the face and he sits silently, as our African men are known to do.

But when I say that to him he says : Is it something bad ? And he wants to know then and there

But I am the same way.

Right, well here's an example of what I mean. I am frustrated about certain football related behavior. (everything resembling a real life situation is coincidental-this example is completely fictitious ) So, I call him and say, I hope we can get some time to talk tonight because we need at address how your football matches effects time together. He says, okay, we'll talk when you get home. So, he is ready to talk about football.

[Zi Zi 0]

Hello,

I like to thank everyone for their impute. I am now just counting down the days until I see him again in Oct. So I have time to do my research and plan my inquisition ..lol I will be staying with his family this time so I will get a chance to be more involved in his family life.

Goodnite everyone

[Nasturtium 500]

HI, MY FINANCE IS A MUSLIM HE ACTED THE SAME WAY.IT ALSO,CONCERN ME.I TOLD HIM IF HE WAS NOT GOING TO PRAY ,THE WAY HE WAS BEFORE I CAME I WAS GOING TO START BACK EATING PORK.(LOL) HE SAID HE WILL START BACK PRAYING WENT I LEAVE.HE NEED TO GO THROUGH A CLEANING CEREMONY. BECAUSE WE WHERE HAVING SEX.AND WAS NOT MARRIED.

Ghusl? That's just a shower basically.

Zi Zi-- I would like to add you may ask him what do wives "do" in his village/town/city... and in his family. Find out what is more or less "normal." I've found that most people in the world sort of assume you understand what is normal to them and then are surprised when you don't telepathically end up knowing what to do. Find out about their lives. You may find out that the men will wake up for fajr and she is expected to wake up before them all and make breakfast... stuff like that which if you were in the religion and familiar with the prayers it is a possibility that a family could operate like that. Finding out how much the women wander around and wander around alone is also a good idea... saves you the trouble of thinking you're going to run to the store and having him be like "not alone!" This can be related to the issue of mahram as easy as it can be related to culture. The above people were right-- this will just take a lot of different conversations to get through.

[Zi Zi 0]

HI, MY FINANCE IS A MUSLIM HE ACTED THE SAME WAY.IT ALSO,CONCERN ME.I TOLD HIM IF HE WAS NOT GOING TO PRAY ,THE WAY HE WAS BEFORE I CAME I WAS GOING TO START BACK EATING PORK.(LOL) HE SAID HE WILL START BACK PRAYING WENT I LEAVE.HE NEED TO GO THROUGH A CLEANING CEREMONY. BECAUSE WE WHERE HAVING SEX.AND WAS NOT MARRIED.

Ghusl? That's just a shower basically.

Zi Zi-- I would like to add you may ask him what do wives "do" in his village/town/city... and in his family. Find out what is more or less "normal." I've found that most people in the world sort of assume you understand what is normal to them and then are surprised when you don't telepathically end up knowing what to do. Find out about their lives. You may find out that the men will wake up for fajr and she is expected to wake up before them all and make breakfast... stuff like that which if you were in the religion and familiar with the prayers it is a possibility that a family could operate like that. Finding out how much the women wander around and wander around alone is also a good idea... saves you the trouble of thinking you're going to run to the store and having him be like "not alone!" This can be related to the issue of mahram as easy as it can be related to culture. The above people were right-- this will just take a lot of different conversations to get through.

Julianna,

Good point!

This is in a way how I feel ....like he assumes I should automatically feel right at home in his world just because he loves me.

[Ta Ta 1]

I have found the opposite true in Sierra Leone and Senegal. They know you are a foreigner and not accustomed to their culture and

cut me a lot of slack or communicated with me when I asked questions. Mostly they are amused and just smile at my cultural ignorance and are very forgiving.

On the other hand they were very impressed that I knew certain other cultural ways and customs and respected me for taking the time to

research and put effort into wanting to be a part of the culture, such as language and social settings.

[Zee Bee 61]

I have found the opposite true in Sierra Leone and Senegal. They know you are a foreigner and not accustomed to their culture and

cut me a lot of slack or communicated with me when I asked questions. Mostly they are amused and just smile at my cultural ignorance and are very forgiving.

On the other hand they were very impressed that I knew certain other cultural ways and customs and respected me for taking the time to

research and put effort into wanting to be a part of the culture, such as language and social settings.

This is my experience too (in Ghana at least)

[irahaymeh 0]

I agree with Ara. We live in Atlanta too. My husband is from Jordan and muslim; I'm Christian. We respect one another's religions and are very happy together. I feel so secure when I watch him pray with such devotion to God. On Fridays, I go to Jumah with him at the masjid, and he sometimes goes to church with me. He would prefer that I become muslim but does not try to force me and we encourage one another in our different walks and relationships on how we worship God. I have so much respect for Islam; it is awesome how muslims stop what they're doing 5 times a day to salute God, pay him homage and to pray. My husband does not only pray salat 5 times daily but he continually talks to God and sings to God all the time, and so do I.

Well My husband is from Nigeria and he is Muslim and I am Christian. We talked about this before we were married in detail. No big problems have come about so far not that they won't but we are prepared to compromise on certain things.

I think he would be happy if I converted but he doesn't pressure me I respect his religion deeply and admire it.

I knew this when I was in Nigeria he went to the Mosque all the time there when I was there I just didn't go. He goes to mosque here as well and has been to church a couple of times with me just to see what it was like.

As long as you love and respect each other and your beliefs and communicate it should not be a problem which it is not for us some people feel differently but that is just how we are.

Best Wishes

[Nasturtium 500]

I have found the opposite true in Sierra Leone and Senegal. They know you are a foreigner and not accustomed to their culture and

cut me a lot of slack or communicated with me when I asked questions. Mostly they are amused and just smile at my cultural ignorance and are very forgiving.

On the other hand they were very impressed that I knew certain other cultural ways and customs and respected me for taking the time to

research and put effort into wanting to be a part of the culture, such as language and social settings.

I'm talking about cultural norms about every day life. For example, right now we're discussing egg storage in a thread in MENA. A poster commented that in Jordan they don't refrigerate eggs and so he won't eat them as we all know they should be refridgerated... which is actually not true. Eggs don't need to be refrigerated as long as you are going to eat them within a week or two of gathering them. But, eggs we get in the stores here are already that age by the time they reach you, so they are put in cold storage to extend their lives as it were. Most Americans would assume you should put eggs in cold storage because that is just what we do. Conversely, in other parts of the world that makes no sense. But that's just what we grow up with and what is normal. These are the hitches most people run into and on a large scale, they can be very disturbing to your sense of "peace." My point was that he may have unspoken expectations of her that he will not realize are not expectations from our points of view... because unless one knows both cultures, one is not going to know where to even start with points of comparing and contrasting. This is further complicated by individual tastes. For example, I don't drink but drinking is normal in the USA. At the same times, I recognize this as a norm. So even though something may be normal within a culture or religion, it also doesn't mean someone would follow that themselves. That's why I thought it best to actually find out what he expects/thinks is normal.

[Ta Ta 1]

Wow I never knew that about eggs either