Question from friend married to an Egyptian

[VictoriaUSA 0]

Hello. I have a friend in New York who is newly married to an Egyptian man. He's been in the country for 10 years and is a practicing Muslim.

Here's the question: She cannot become pregnant but she wants to do invitro fertilization with a surrogate. They had already talked about adopting but she feels he also wants a baby that's biologically his. When she told this to her husband he said that it was Haram (spelling?). She told him that the baby would be created from her eggs and his sperm, but the baby in the surrogate process is carried by another woman who delivers the baby. She doesn't have any relation to the surrogate (not a sister or relative).

He told her that the baby would have the blood of the surrogate and it would therefore be against the religion for him to do that because he'd have to be married to the other woman to do that. As you can imagine, my friend was very distraught by this information. They decided to consult an emam to ask since this is all modern technology and of course the Koran couldn't explicitly refer to this procedure.

Any suggestions on how she can find information on this? I think she needs to talk to someone knowledgeable about the Koran but also educated enough in Western medical practices to get a valid opinion.

[Krissy! 0]

There are several online question/answers on this topic.

Hope they help:

http://www.islamonline.com/news/print.php?newid=10311

Basically:

"The Islamic Fiqh Academy, and other bodies, including Al-Azhar's Fatwa Committee, have studied this matter at length. They concluded that artificial insemination is permitted, as long as only the husband and wife are reproductively involved. This is permitted whether the fertilization itself occurs inside or outside the woman. It is not permitted to use third party ('donor') sperm or eggs, even when either spouse is infertile."

from:

http://www.everymuslim.net/index.php?optio...5&Itemid=31

So sounds like what your friend explained is permitted, because using just her eggs and his sperm, and only the surrogate to carry (surrogate has no role in the "reproduction")

(P.S. I goggled: "In vitro fertilization Quran" for more search results)

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

If it's the wifes egg and the mans sperm it's their genetic material and their blood. The surrogate is just for the baking of the baby. Did a doctor explain this to them? Sometimes that might help.

[nunyab 0]

I would suggest having him ask the Imaam since it might be easier for him to understand..... good luck

[Alhamdulillah 0]

So, if the host mother's blood does not affect the child, does that mean if she has some disease (like AIDS) it can't pass to the child during the time it's in her womb?

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

So, if the host mother's blood does not affect the child, does that mean if she has some disease (like AIDS) it can't pass to the child during the time it's in her womb?

I see. The mixing of the the hosts blood during the gestation period is the issue. To this the medical professional would reply that surrogate mothers are screened throughly before beginning any such process to insure the complete babies health. Once born the blood and or the genetic material of the surrogate mother does not affect the child.

[Nasturtium 500]

The IVF is not a problem, it's the surrogacy. There are fatwas agaist it at Islam q&a and Islam online.. just depends on your viewpoint of the validity of their daleel I guess. If the husband feels so strongly against it, I don't know that she will be able to change his mind.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

So, if the host mother's blood does not affect the child, does that mean if she has some disease (like AIDS) it can't pass to the child during the time it's in her womb?

I see. The mixing of the the hosts blood during the gestation period is the issue. To this the medical professional would reply that surrogate mothers are screened throughly before beginning any such process to insure the complete babies health. Once born the blood and or the genetic material of the surrogate mother does not affect the child.

Right, but the issue is with the fact that the blood mixes in the gestational period..... that's probably what the shaykh will argue

If she's doing it for her husband and he's against it then it shouldn't be an issue. There's a lot of hasanat in adoption

[Nasturtium 500]

Right, but the issue is with the fact that the blood mixes in the gestational period..... that's probably what the shaykh will argue

If she's doing it for her husband and he's against it then it shouldn't be an issue. There's a lot of hasanat in adoption

I've seen the argument that a man's sperm shouldn't go into a woman unless she is his wife... and thus permitting a co-wife but not anyone else from doing surrogacy.

[amal 4]

My husband also says that surrogate mothers is haram in Islam. Adoption is not an option for him either.

A woman can have HIV or AIDS and be pregnant and the unborn child will not get it (with the proper care of course).

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

So, if the host mother's blood does not affect the child, does that mean if she has some disease (like AIDS) it can't pass to the child during the time it's in her womb?

I see. The mixing of the the hosts blood during the gestation period is the issue. To this the medical professional would reply that surrogate mothers are screened throughly before beginning any such process to insure the complete babies health. Once born the blood and or the genetic material of the surrogate mother does not affect the child.

Right, but the issue is with the fact that the blood mixes in the gestational period..... that's probably what the shaykh will argue

If she's doing it for her husband and he's against it then it shouldn't be an issue. There's a lot of hasanat in adoption

Ok. It should also be noted babies are born with their own genetic blood. For example I'm B- and my Mom is O+. I'll have to ask my Husband more about this issue.

The IVF is not a problem, it's the surrogacy. There are fatwas agaist it at Islam q&a and Islam online.. just depends on your viewpoint of the validity of their daleel I guess. If the husband feels so strongly against it, I don't know that she will be able to change his mind.

good point.

Right, but the issue is with the fact that the blood mixes in the gestational period..... that's probably what the shaykh will argue

If she's doing it for her husband and he's against it then it shouldn't be an issue. There's a lot of hasanat in adoption

I've seen the argument that a man's sperm shouldn't go into a woman unless she is his wife... and thus permitting a co-wife but not anyone else from doing surrogacy.

very good point. I did not know that.

My husband also says that surrogate mothers is haram in Islam. Adoption is not an option for him either.

A woman can have HIV or AIDS and be pregnant and the unborn child will not get it (with the proper care of course).

I was thinking this as well but the chances aren't as good.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

So here is what my Husband said:

i know it is not accepted in Islam.

i know that if a woman was breast feeding a baby (who is not her own) nore than 5 times then he is considered a son, and he can't get married to her daughters when they are old as they are his sisters.

but concerning the adoption what is not accepted is to give our names for those who are not really our kids.

it is about outr bodies and how far we are free to do with

it is not for a scientific cuzes

it is for moral cuzes or call it spiritual cuzes

and i think a major part for the woman feeling of her baby is when she carries him in her inside her body.

it has many other sides like the feeling of that woman that would be used as a carrier after being linked with that baby for the time she was carrying him.

and then it is a start for using our bodies for money and this is not acceptable in Islam

any way it has many philosophical sides

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Hello. I have a friend in New York who is newly married to an Egyptian man. He's been in the country for 10 years and is a practicing Muslim.

Here's the question: She cannot become pregnant but she wants to do invitro fertilization with a surrogate. They had already talked about adopting but she feels he also wants a baby that's biologically his. When she told this to her husband he said that it was Haram (spelling?). She told him that the baby would be created from her eggs and his sperm, but the baby in the surrogate process is carried by another woman who delivers the baby. She doesn't have any relation to the surrogate (not a sister or relative).

He told her that the baby would have the blood of the surrogate and it would therefore be against the religion for him to do that because he'd have to be married to the other woman to do that. As you can imagine, my friend was very distraught by this information. They decided to consult an emam to ask since this is all modern technology and of course the Koran couldn't explicitly refer to this procedure.

Any suggestions on how she can find information on this? I think she needs to talk to someone knowledgeable about the Koran but also educated enough in Western medical practices to get a valid opinion.

Sounds like a bunch of ####### to me. I think sometimes these guys want any excuse to deny some of their wives options at motherhood. Religion doesnt seem to be in the way when its something THEY want to do. I have seen guys get married, say babies arent an issue and then ALL OF THE SUDDEN the baby is the HUGEST issue and then this is haram and that is haram and blah blah blah . Islam isnt the problem. Language isnt the problem. Its the man's commitment and love for his wife.

I think sometimes the guys play the baby card to leave leave leave.

What really makes me crazy is when the guys CAN have the baby and they put it off for one dumb ### reason after the other because its not in THEIR timetable and the girl loses her ability to have kids or she is forced into an unwanted abortion because the guy feels it isnt time

In MHO I think if the guy is shooting down every possible way to have a baby with a wife who is infertile, he really doesnt want her or to stay with her. Like I said religion seems to be used to justify behavior when people feel like it and and to justify decisions someone wants to make anyway

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

So here is what my Husband said:

i know it is not accepted in Islam.

i know that if a woman was breast feeding a baby (who is not her own) nore than 5 times then he is considered a son, and he can't get married to her daughters when they are old as they are his sisters.

but concerning the adoption what is not accepted is to give our names for those who are not really our kids.

it is about outr bodies and how far we are free to do with

it is not for a scientific cuzes

it is for moral cuzes or call it spiritual cuzes

and i think a major part for the woman feeling of her baby is when she carries him in her inside her body.

it has many other sides like the feeling of that woman that would be used as a carrier after being linked with that baby for the time she was carrying him.

and then it is a start for using our bodies for money and this is not acceptable in Islam

any way it has many philosophical sides

I think that alot of that is a load of ####### too.

There are so many children that need families in MENA. this really affects babies born outside of wedlock or rape or who were abandoned. You have orphanages all over the place because of this.

I HAVE seen families take in children and love them as their own. I dont think Islam when it was founded was founded with the intention to throw babies and small children into the street and not give them a life or any rights. There are a lot of blessings in taking care of children that are not your own. Any decent hearted person has got to see that. I can get pregnant and have but being pregnant does nt guarantee a man in MENA will stay with his baby. Thats why there are so many families in my husbands city headed by women only with poor little children running the streets with no father figure while the man has moved on to another wife and family and abandoned his other kids. I think people use religion sometimes to justify their awful and unkind decisions. If he knew his wife couldnt have kids when he married her, then it should never be an issue or brought up. If it was discovered afterwards, then of course its an issue because he at that point can and has the right to take another wife.. But knowing it in advance and THEN it becomes an issue? I dont think so.

I know a Tunisian guy who got his wife ( american pregnant) and then forced her to sterilise herself. He left her 6 months later. Now she cant have kids and hes gone too.... Men who push their wives to cut their tubes really make me mad. They should cut their own little think and leave our tubes out of it... If he is so insistant on no more babies ,,, its 500 dollars and hes shooting blanks..

[mybackpages 0]

The whole idea of adoption being haram in Islam is not tied to the act of adoption, but that adoption laws can go aganst the God given rights of the child. Just as Islam served to protect the rights of women, it also gave protection of the rights of children. One of these rights is that as a child, you have the right to know your parentage. American adoption laws for years ignored the right of the child over the right of the biological parent.