Barack Obama's Higher Taxes Agenda

[Heracles 417]

MCCAIN OBAMA

Income Avg. tax bill Avg. tax bill

Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885

$603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974

$227K-$603K -$7,871 +$12

$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789

$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204

$66K-$112K -$1,009 -$1,290

$38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042

$19K-$38K -$113 -$892

Under $19K -$19 -$567

Source:The Tax Policy Cente

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To be honest the tax hikes on the wealthy are a good idea. McCain is proposing to cut their tax rates which is just ridiculous at time like this. The rich have made a lot of money off America so now it is time they give back to the nation which has protected them and allowed them to make such wealth.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I see, any real look at Obama and his agenda is ignored.

obamabots are too busy with their head in the sand......

Those that think that the Republican borrow-and-spend-and-let-the-next-generations-worry-about-our-lack-of-responsibility mentality are the one with their heads in the sand. The only way to curb spending is have people see in real terms what the cost is. As long as we fund spending by running up more debt, there'll be no momentum building up to change a thing. To stay on the current irresponsible course will ultimately bankrupt this nation.

So bankrupt the people instead. Nice plan.

You didn't read what I said. But yes, at the end of the day, I don't appreciate politicians and their supporters that feel that they can unload the cost of their actions onto my children. My children can't defend themselves yet. It's my job to do that for them. I believe in a very simple principle: You can only spend what you make. Republicans have not shown to be capable of following this very simple and sound principle.

Imagine, if you will, that people could just spend, spend, spend and not worry about paying back any debt but rather borrow more and more all the time with there seemingly being no consequence to it. Do yuo think that this would foster fiscal responsibility in any given household? You think that people would restrain their spending under such circumstances? The answer is, no they would not. And that's essentially what the Republican leadership has done for the better part of the last 3 decades - pretend that we can just spend, spend, spend without there being any consequence. The truth is, though, that there are ultimately grave consequences and we start seeing them. More of the same isn't going to accomplish the course correction we desperately need.

Since were imagining! Lets "Imagine" how much Jimmies, ooops! I mean Barry's healthcare wetdream will cost. Money spent is money spent! Maybe Im wrong.

[SaadBell 0]

Study your history of economics please.

”The claim that Obama will ‘enact’ the largest tax increase since World War II is also overblown. The Bush tax cuts will expire automatically at the end of 2010, so it is hardly a question of ‘enacting’ a new tax increase… McCain spokesman Brian Rogers pointed to an analysis by the non-partisan Annenberg Political Fact Check that found that the gross tax increase would amount to $103.3 billion in 2011, the largest single-year tax increase since World War II. The Annenberg study pointed out, however, that ‘most economists’ prefer to measure tax changes as a percentage of gross national product, in which case it would be the fifth largest increase since 1943.”

[Sister Fracas 5]

Well this IS better than the half a hundred threads of manure that we've seen over the last week. IMO there's a saturation problem with this stuff - post enough anti-Obama threads (especially of the caliber of some of the recent ones) and eventually it turns people cold. Not to mention the pariah element of "Oh no - not another op-ed thread" - so you probably find that the articles of interest get lost amongst the guff.

Raising taxes at this point in time probably isn't the way to go - but then again I'm no expert on economics.

The inflammatory Op-Ed stories are the only thing that seems to get any traction. Whenever I try to post something about real issues it gets dismissed or ignored. People here b!tch about the hype and the lack of substance but then turn around and refuse to talk about anything else.

Sorry, you lose credibility when you brand people who have a different opinion to yours in regards to what direction this country should move in as a bunch of haters. It's a shame you can't see that there is a big sliding scale and that not everyone to the left OF YOU thinks identically. In your threads your main objective seems to be more about tearing down the individuals who disagree with you.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well this IS better than the half a hundred threads of manure that we've seen

yes like a majority of your posts..

How childish is that...

Idiot.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well this IS better than the half a hundred threads of manure that we've seen over the last week. IMO there's a saturation problem with this stuff - post enough anti-Obama threads (especially of the caliber of some of the recent ones) and eventually it turns people cold. Not to mention the pariah element of "Oh no - not another op-ed thread" - so you probably find that the articles of interest get lost amongst the guff.

Raising taxes at this point in time probably isn't the way to go - but then again I'm no expert on economics.

The inflammatory Op-Ed stories are the only thing that seems to get any traction. Whenever I try to post something about real issues it gets dismissed or ignored. People here b!tch about the hype and the lack of substance but then turn around and refuse to talk about anything else.

Sorry, you lose credibility when you brand people who have a different opinion to yours in regards to what direction this country should move in as a bunch of haters. It's a shame you can't see that there is a big sliding scale and that not everyone to the left OF YOU thinks identically. In your threads your main objective seems to be more about tearing down the individuals who disagree with you.

Its interesting that Gary takes the absence of 15 page discussion on this thread as proof that "Obamabots"

don't want to question Obama. Perhaps there's some truth to that. By the same token however he ignores my point that its not only "far-left extremists" who support Obama - but clearly acknowledging that truth would upset a whole apple cart of assumptions.

Continuously pandering to the lowest common denominator certainly does lower credibility.

[HAL 9000 96]

Well this IS better than the half a hundred threads of manure that we've seen over the last week. IMO there's a saturation problem with this stuff - post enough anti-Obama threads (especially of the caliber of some of the recent ones) and eventually it turns people cold. Not to mention the pariah element of "Oh no - not another op-ed thread" - so you probably find that the articles of interest get lost amongst the guff.

Raising taxes at this point in time probably isn't the way to go - but then again I'm no expert on economics.

The inflammatory Op-Ed stories are the only thing that seems to get any traction. Whenever I try to post something about real issues it gets dismissed or ignored. People here b!tch about the hype and the lack of substance but then turn around and refuse to talk about anything else.

Sorry, you lose credibility when you brand people who have a different opinion to yours in regards to what direction this country should move in as a bunch of haters. It's a shame you can't see that there is a big sliding scale and that not everyone to the left OF YOU thinks identically. In your threads your main objective seems to be more about tearing down the individuals who disagree with you.

Its interesting that Gary takes the absence of 15 page discussion on this thread as proof that "Obamabots"

don't want to question Obama. Perhaps there's some truth to that. By the same token however he ignores my point that its not only "far-left extremists" who support Obama - but clearly acknowledging that truth would upset a whole apple cart of assumptions.

Continuously pandering to the lowest common denominator certainly does lower credibility.

All the while in the real world, Obamabots are working on discussing actual issues that matter to people in this country. While McCainiacs are trying to cloak and dagger routine to convince themselves their man is the medicine for the disease their predecessor emboldened. My hat off to such ludicrous [lack of] thinking.

Back to my slave mill.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Personally I think we do without stereotypical thinking on all sides. I mean... isn't anyone seriously tired of it?

What happened to taking people as you find them? I guess its easier (or rather - more fun) to take them "as you assume they should be", which seems to be what happens most of the time...

That's really my problem with a lot of these threads - nothing's posted in an honest way to facilitate a respectful dialog, its always a dig of some sort at some perceived "side".

Frankly - its ridiculous.

[HAL 9000 96]

Personally I think we do without stereotypical thinking on all sides. I mean... isn't anyone seriously tired of it?

What happened to taking people as you find them? I guess its easier (or rather - more fun) to take them "as you assume they should be", which seems to be what happens most of the time...

That's really my problem with a lot of these threads - nothing's posted in an honest way to facilitate a respectful dialog, its always a dig of some sort at some perceived "side".

Frankly - its ridiculous.

That seems to be part of the reason why some folks just don't understand simple things... or in some cases its preconceived notions of what they want to see and believe that belittles any attempt at an actual discourse in truth.

It is silly and childish, not to mention rife with ignorance and all around ill-will in the very process some of these folks profess to defend tooth and nail.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I see, any real look at Obama and his agenda is ignored.

obamabots are too busy with their head in the sand......

Those that think that the Republican borrow-and-spend-and-let-the-next-generations-worry-about-our-lack-of-responsibility mentality are the one with their heads in the sand. The only way to curb spending is have people see in real terms what the cost is. As long as we fund spending by running up more debt, there'll be no momentum building up to change a thing. To stay on the current irresponsible course will ultimately bankrupt this nation.

So bankrupt the people instead. Nice plan.

You didn't read what I said. But yes, at the end of the day, I don't appreciate politicians and their supporters that feel that they can unload the cost of their actions onto my children. My children can't defend themselves yet. It's my job to do that for them. I believe in a very simple principle: You can only spend what you make. Republicans have not shown to be capable of following this very simple and sound principle.

Imagine, if you will, that people could just spend, spend, spend and not worry about paying back any debt but rather borrow more and more all the time with there seemingly being no consequence to it. Do yuo think that this would foster fiscal responsibility in any given household? You think that people would restrain their spending under such circumstances? The answer is, no they would not. And that's essentially what the Republican leadership has done for the better part of the last 3 decades - pretend that we can just spend, spend, spend without there being any consequence. The truth is, though, that there are ultimately grave consequences and we start seeing them. More of the same isn't going to accomplish the course correction we desperately need.

Since were imagining! Lets "Imagine" how much Jimmies, ooops! I mean Barry's healthcare wetdream will cost. Money spent is money spent! Maybe Im wrong.

See, here you claim you want to talk about issues and then you can't help but firing another cheap shot. Make up your mind on what you want to talk about.

I "imagine" that since we already spend more than any other nation on earth on healthcare while leaving millions in the dust all the while affording ouselves the biggest and most bloated privately and market created red tape and bureaucracy in this field that we can come up with a health care system that takes away from the areas that don't need funding - bloated insurance bureaucracies and the bureaucracies they force onto the providers - and puts it to where it is needed - actual patient care. All comparable nations are doing a better and more efficient job in this field providing service to all for less. You mean to tell me that they're all smarter than we are? Where's your confidence in America?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I can't frame a response that is based on a comprehensive knowledge of American economics but I will say this. Raising taxes isn't automatically a bad thing any more than sending out millions of dollars in 'stimulus' checks is automatically a good thing for the economy.

Simply raising taxes isn't an answer to anything though. Raising taxes has to be directly linked to a benefit for it to make sense, at least to me. A simple example I can think of, California is facing a huge budget crisis at the moment. Schwarzenigger, quite rightly in my opinion, is trying to balance the books. However, currently the only thing he is advocating is slashing budgets. Now, I have nothing against slashing budgets if the budget is funding something unecessary or if that will create greater efficency but when it comes to slashing education budgets that are already pared to the bone the direct result of which is going to be reducing the number of teachers and increasing the class sizes that are already above acceptable levels then in that instance raising more taxes to specifically spend on education is the right thing to do.

I presume one of the difficulties with these decisions is that it's often a matter of the baby being thrown out with the bathwater.

I agree with you re: Schwarzenegger. Slashing the education budget (last time I was over there - he was already getting a lot of bad press for "borrowing" money from schools) isn't going to help anyone - if anything vital departments like that need to be protected from populist policies (which is really all this is).

Its become some sort of buzz-phrase that any increase in taxation is automatically evil commie garbage and should be resisted at any cost. Clearly the tax system exists for a reason - to provide the government with the money it needs to enact policy and maintain/improve the country's infrastructure. As I say - my take home pay after tax and deductions is roughly still equivalent to what I was making in the UK with its much higher income tax rates.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Number 6

[HAL 9000 96]

I see, any real look at Obama and his agenda is ignored.

obamabots are too busy with their head in the sand......

Those that think that the Republican borrow-and-spend-and-let-the-next-generations-worry-about-our-lack-of-responsibility mentality are the one with their heads in the sand. The only way to curb spending is have people see in real terms what the cost is. As long as we fund spending by running up more debt, there'll be no momentum building up to change a thing. To stay on the current irresponsible course will ultimately bankrupt this nation.

So bankrupt the people instead. Nice plan.

You didn't read what I said. But yes, at the end of the day, I don't appreciate politicians and their supporters that feel that they can unload the cost of their actions onto my children. My children can't defend themselves yet. It's my job to do that for them. I believe in a very simple principle: You can only spend what you make. Republicans have not shown to be capable of following this very simple and sound principle.

Imagine, if you will, that people could just spend, spend, spend and not worry about paying back any debt but rather borrow more and more all the time with there seemingly being no consequence to it. Do yuo think that this would foster fiscal responsibility in any given household? You think that people would restrain their spending under such circumstances? The answer is, no they would not. And that's essentially what the Republican leadership has done for the better part of the last 3 decades - pretend that we can just spend, spend, spend without there being any consequence. The truth is, though, that there are ultimately grave consequences and we start seeing them. More of the same isn't going to accomplish the course correction we desperately need.

Since were imagining! Lets "Imagine" how much Jimmies, ooops! I mean Barry's healthcare wetdream will cost. Money spent is money spent! Maybe Im wrong.

See, here you claim you want to talk about issues and then you can't help but firing another cheap shot. Make up your mind on what you want to talk about.

I "imagine" that since we already spend more than any other nation on earth on healthcare while leaving millions in the dust all the while affording ouselves the biggest and most bloated privately and market created red tape and bureaucracy in this field that we can come up with a health care system that takes away from the areas that don't need funding - bloated insurance bureaucracies and the bureaucracies they force onto the providers - and puts it to where it is needed - actual patient care. All comparable nations are doing a better and more efficient job in this field providing service to all for less. You mean to tell me that they're all smarter than we are? Where's your confidence in America?

Is that even possible?