(Not) Keeping Up with Our Parents: Just Being Middle Class Is Becoming out of Reach

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

You liberals make me sick, with all the whining about those poor uneducated Americans. They need to rise up above it all, pull themselves up by their bootstraps like the rest of us. If they can't compete with no-english unskilled Mexicans, they are useless and a burden on our society. Stop whining about their fate, you bleeding heart!!

I wonder sometimes what new excuse they'll come up with if and when the illegals get out or become legals.

They are actually liberals (even though they call themselves conservatives) and will find another scapegoat. It's the liberal way, never take responsibility, always blame someone else (preferably a foreigner).

[BJZags 17]

The American dream is still out there but not with the same formula that existed for our parents. It isn't harder, it's just different.

Gary,

How can you say it isn't harder, when you consider how many (if not most) of the corporations and instutions who are hiring are not providing at least equivilent benefits and retirement packages to current workers as compared to past generations. To save money, they may cut-out dental from their plan, or the pensions of the past are replaced by 401K's where they match very little , etc. In order to make up for those differences, many of us have to pay cash, which cuts into the bottom-line every month.

[HAL 9000 96]

You liberals make me sick, with all the whining about those poor uneducated Americans. They need to rise up above it all, pull themselves up by their bootstraps like the rest of us. If they can't compete with no-english unskilled Mexicans, they are useless and a burden on our society. Stop whining about their fate, you bleeding heart!!

I wonder sometimes what new excuse they'll come up with if and when the illegals get out or become legals.

They are actually liberals (even though they call themselves conservatives) and will find another scapegoat. It's the liberal way, never take responsibility, always blame someone else (preferably a foreigner).

Maybe this lady can blame her dogs:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/0....mom/index.html

[SMOKE 1,426]

You liberals make me sick, with all the whining about those poor uneducated Americans. They need to rise up above it all, pull themselves up by their bootstraps like the rest of us. If they can't compete with no-english unskilled Mexicans, they are useless and a burden on our society. Stop whining about their fate, you bleeding heart!!

I wonder sometimes what new excuse they'll come up with if and when the illegals get out or become legals.

They are actually liberals (even though they call themselves conservatives) and will find another scapegoat. It's the liberal way, never take responsibility, always blame someone else (preferably a foreigner).

its not an excuse mavi its fact. it ain't lookin for a scapegoat either troll. illegals have seriously effected wages in the construction & service industries. hurting american families.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

You liberals make me sick, with all the whining about those poor uneducated Americans. They need to rise up above it all, pull themselves up by their bootstraps like the rest of us. If they can't compete with no-english unskilled Mexicans, they are useless and a burden on our society. Stop whining about their fate, you bleeding heart!!

I wonder sometimes what new excuse they'll come up with if and when the illegals get out or become legals.

They are actually liberals (even though they call themselves conservatives) and will find another scapegoat. It's the liberal way, never take responsibility, always blame someone else (preferably a foreigner).

its not an excuse mavi its fact. it ain't lookin for a scapegoat either troll. illegals have seriously effected wages in the construction & service industries. hurting american families.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That's a good thing?

[Ban Hammer 14,669]

My wife is wrapping up her first year of teaching. Her salary sucks.

NJ publishes salaries online of all public employees, including teachers. I looked up her instructor at her masters program, she is a reading specialist with 30 years of experience at a public school... her public school salary after 30 years of time is less than 90... which is probably why she needs to moonlight at the university...

True story.

in my head it all sounds good but thus far nothing is coming out very well [/b]

i thought you were an english teacher?

Charles!

I can't be perfect all the time

you can't???? can the kids use that reason when you grade?

Ah, we're back to measuring people's worth according to their job. Lovely.

only if affected by illegals, otherwise they deserve sympathy.

[HAL 9000 96]

You liberals make me sick, with all the whining about those poor uneducated Americans. They need to rise up above it all, pull themselves up by their bootstraps like the rest of us. If they can't compete with no-english unskilled Mexicans, they are useless and a burden on our society. Stop whining about their fate, you bleeding heart!!

I wonder sometimes what new excuse they'll come up with if and when the illegals get out or become legals.

They are actually liberals (even though they call themselves conservatives) and will find another scapegoat. It's the liberal way, never take responsibility, always blame someone else (preferably a foreigner).

its not an excuse mavi its fact. it ain't lookin for a scapegoat either troll. illegals have seriously effected wages in the construction & service industries. hurting american families.

If it were so then American politicians would have done something about it like yesterday, given the political pull of American families vs illegal families. Like, having these industries actually obey labor laws instead of hiring cheap labor.

[SMOKE 1,426]

You liberals make me sick, with all the whining about those poor uneducated Americans. They need to rise up above it all, pull themselves up by their bootstraps like the rest of us. If they can't compete with no-english unskilled Mexicans, they are useless and a burden on our society. Stop whining about their fate, you bleeding heart!!

I wonder sometimes what new excuse they'll come up with if and when the illegals get out or become legals.

They are actually liberals (even though they call themselves conservatives) and will find another scapegoat. It's the liberal way, never take responsibility, always blame someone else (preferably a foreigner).

its not an excuse mavi its fact. it ain't lookin for a scapegoat either troll. illegals have seriously effected wages in the construction & service industries. hurting american families.

If it were so then American politicians would have done something about it like yesterday, given the political pull of American families vs illegal families. Like, having these industries actually obey labor laws instead of hiring cheap labor.

they are on the state level OK & AZ have passed anti illegal immigration laws. there is no way you can deny, that a job being taken from a USC going to an illegal immigrant for a lower wage is hurting american families.

[rebeccajo 14]

You liberals make me sick, with all the whining about those poor uneducated Americans. They need to rise up above it all, pull themselves up by their bootstraps like the rest of us. If they can't compete with no-english unskilled Mexicans, they are useless and a burden on our society. Stop whining about their fate, you bleeding heart!!

I wonder sometimes what new excuse they'll come up with if and when the illegals get out or become legals.

They are actually liberals (even though they call themselves conservatives) and will find another scapegoat. It's the liberal way, never take responsibility, always blame someone else (preferably a foreigner).

its not an excuse mavi its fact. it ain't lookin for a scapegoat either troll. illegals have seriously effected wages in the construction & service industries. hurting american families.

If it were so then American politicians would have done something about it like yesterday, given the political pull of American families vs illegal families. Like, having these industries actually obey labor laws instead of hiring cheap labor.

Family pull doesn't equal the pull of lobbyists for big business.

So it just ain't that simple.

[HAL 9000 96]

You liberals make me sick, with all the whining about those poor uneducated Americans. They need to rise up above it all, pull themselves up by their bootstraps like the rest of us. If they can't compete with no-english unskilled Mexicans, they are useless and a burden on our society. Stop whining about their fate, you bleeding heart!!

I wonder sometimes what new excuse they'll come up with if and when the illegals get out or become legals.

They are actually liberals (even though they call themselves conservatives) and will find another scapegoat. It's the liberal way, never take responsibility, always blame someone else (preferably a foreigner).

its not an excuse mavi its fact. it ain't lookin for a scapegoat either troll. illegals have seriously effected wages in the construction & service industries. hurting american families.

If it were so then American politicians would have done something about it like yesterday, given the political pull of American families vs illegal families. Like, having these industries actually obey labor laws instead of hiring cheap labor.

they are on the state level OK & AZ have passed anti illegal immigration laws. there is no way you can deny, that a job being taken from a USC going to an illegal immigrant for a lower wage is hurting american families.

Who's denying it?

Apparently, its not enough of a national issue for most Americans to care about. But as I said previously, its not precisely the illegal's fault for being the preferential source of labor for entities that wish to violate the law, and in doing so, hurting American families and the economy.

[GaryC 7]

The American dream is still out there but not with the same formula that existed for our parents. It isn't harder, it's just different.

Gary,

How can you say it isn't harder, when you consider how many (if not most) of the corporations and instutions who are hiring are not providing at least equivilent benefits and retirement packages to current workers as compared to past generations. To save money, they may cut-out dental from their plan, or the pensions of the past are replaced by 401K's where they match very little , etc. In order to make up for those differences, many of us have to pay cash, which cuts into the bottom-line every month.

I can only speak from my personal experience. Unfortunately when I do it sounds like I am bragging. So take this is just my own experience and give it whatever weight you want. I see the bennies as an extra thing the employers offer to attract the talent they need. I don't see it as some sort of a "right" that we are now losing. I have made keeping health care for myself and my family the number one priority. I have turned down jobs that would have paid more because of this concern. Retirement is another thing that I look at when I am looking for a job. I feel that these things are not a right or something that employers should be required to offer. I see it as a personal responsibility for me to take care of. So far in my life these personal responsibilities have driven my education and employment decisions. As a result I have never been a day without these things. It hasn't been hard for me to maintain a middle class lifestyle because I see these as my own responsibilities and I have always taken them into account for any choice I have made. In fact because of this consistent pattern of choices I have been able to weather setbacks that have been put forth as a reason for them being government mandated rights. I don't just spout right wing platitudes of personal responsibilities, they have been my life's guiding principals and have seen me through good times and bad. There isn't anything special about me. I wasn't given an upper hand in society. I guess it's why I don't understand why others see America as a place of diminished opportunity when I see it as one of unlimited opportunity. America has been very good to me and I thank her from the bottom of my heart.

[Sister Fracas 5]

Ah, we're back to measuring people's worth according to their job. Lovely.

indeed...

my immigrant husband, who teaches algebra, geometry, trig, pre-calc, calc and astronomy to higschool kids with mental health problems can't even make $40K. That's obscene. And before anyone says he should change his job if he doesn't like the pay, well he's a damn good teacher who has a knack for reaching kids with problems and he likes his job....a lot. And he likes being able to have a big chunk of time off during the summer.

I guess because we don't make over $90 as a married couple means we are losers....

[rebeccajo 14]

Gary -

I think you're getting confused about the topic. We are talking about how it is increasingly more difficult to have the lifestyle our parents had.

Healthcare was formerly provided by employers because it was affordable. The government had nothing to do with the employers ability to provide that care and so let's leave the government out of the analogy we are trying to draw in this conversation. Unless you wish to wonder why it should be (in America) that an industry which is supposed to take care of people when they are most vulnerable (the healthcare industry) should hold their 'customers' hostage due to cost.

Pensions drying up and we as employees now need to see to our own retirement through 401K contributions? Fine. That'd be easier to do if our out of pocket healthcare costs were not so high.

Our parents didn't have these worries. That's the topic at hand.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I guess because we don't make over $90 as a married couple means we are losers....

No, the losers are those who can't compete for jobs with no-english fresh off the boat unskilled mexicans....