Indian standoff in Caledonia

[BR549 0]

I am assuming that we are all on here because ourselves or our spouse is trying to immigrate or has immigrated. Yes that would be to the U.S. . It is a world issue and always will be. How would you like it if somebody said their lives wouldn't have been ruined if you'd just stayed in your own country? As controversial as these issues can be it is indeed correct that it is history that can't be changed. There are legal ways of getting your rights heard and realized. Those are the avenues you need to take.

Most people on here are dealing with legal immigration which makes it extremely difficult to see people burning things to get their way or demonstrating in the streets with their flags that they are not criminals because they are in the U.S. illegally. I guess you gotta ask someone who has gone through the ####### of doing it legal if you really feel sorry for them. They are only creating a bad names for themselves.

And yeah I was trying to be politically correct by clarifying the native american thing. Should I have said Native Canadian? I, in fact always thought it was quite strange why the U.S. is called "America" when technically America encompasses all the countries in North and South America. But that's another issue all together. LOL what would this world be like without controversy?

[happyimmigrant 0]

wow... i find that sad. i still dont know what they're pissed off about

An area of land is being developed (you can see part of the development, and perhaps some partially built houses). The natives suddenly decided that the land belongs to them, and that they are owed vast sums of money for it. So as usual, it's all down to money. It went to court, the natives lost, the developers got an injunction trying to evict the natives, so the police went in there using force, but failed.

btw what kind of plane do you have or were flying?

Cherokee 180. Poking the camera out the little flip-down vent window on the left side, then slipping it left to get the wing out of the way. About 1000 AGL, and kinda halfway a bit worried about coming home with bullet holes in the fuselage.

[Fuzzness 2]

wow... i find that sad. i still dont know what they're pissed off about

An area of land is being developed (you can see part of the development, and perhaps some partially built houses). The natives suddenly decided that the land belongs to them, and that they are owed vast sums of money for it. So as usual, it's all down to money. It went to court, the natives lost, the developers got an injunction trying to evict the natives, so the police went in there using force, but failed.

btw what kind of plane do you have or were flying?

Cherokee 180. Poking the camera out the little flip-down vent window on the left side, then slipping it left to get the wing out of the way. About 1000 AGL, and kinda halfway a bit worried about coming home with bullet holes in the fuselage.

A lot of native groups are upsetting me. They are just being lazy and stay at home collecting a check and drinking all day long. I know, I see this here and other places. It's a shame and an insult to their ancestors. I can say this can't it? I mean I am part native myself.

I would have been worried about a bullet going through the pitot tube. I heard of that happening before. what are the chances??

[Flames9_RN 358]

Having lived in Northern Saskatchewan and living closely with the Indians, one see's the good and bad. Lot of horror stories up North. Endless drinking and abuse. Hard to sya what is the correct method to help resolve it. The governments solution has been pretty much to throw $$$ and figure that would solve it, which of course it has not. The White man (Europeans) have caused a lot of diswcomfort to the natives. First bringing disease,introducing alcohol and pretty much over taking thier land. I'm not siding on the natives side,but their is two sides to every story!!

[happyimmigrant 0]

I would have been worried about a bullet going through the pitot tube. I heard of that happening before. what are the chances??

Pitot tube? I don't know about being all that worried about the pitot tube. I don't know about your CRJ, but last I checked, my Cherokee keeps flying without an airspeed indicator. But you're right, what are the chances?

I'd be far more worried about a bullet to the engine, or worse - a bullet to the pilot's seat!!

Having lived in Northern Saskatchewan and living closely with the Indians, one see's the good and bad. Lot of horror stories up North. Endless drinking and abuse. Hard to sya what is the correct method to help resolve it. The governments solution has been pretty much to throw $$$ and figure that would solve it, which of course it has not. The White man (Europeans) have caused a lot of diswcomfort to the natives. First bringing disease,introducing alcohol and pretty much over taking thier land. I'm not siding on the natives side,but their is two sides to every story!!

My youngest brother is a bush pilot way up north, now based out of Yellowknife. He was in Fort Simpson for many years, and the only liquor store in town is open for two hours a week - specifically because there is such a huge alcohol problem with the natives. The gene that makes one susceptible to alcoholism is apparently very prevalent in native people.

[Fuzzness 2]

I would have been worried about a bullet going through the pitot tube. I heard of that happening before. what are the chances??

Pitot tube? I don't know about being all that worried about the pitot tube. I don't know about your CRJ, but last I checked, my Cherokee keeps flying without an airspeed indicator. But you're right, what are the chances?

I'd be far more worried about a bullet to the engine, or worse - a bullet to the pilot's seat!!

actually i think it was an A-10 over in Iraq. I could be wrong. Yeah, all planes can fly without an airspeed indicator. but that would really suck. anyway that plane landed safely. female pilot too. pics are up on the web somewhere. cant believe that plane made it back.

[happyimmigrant 0]

I would have been worried about a bullet going through the pitot tube. I heard of that happening before. what are the chances??

Pitot tube? I don't know about being all that worried about the pitot tube. I don't know about your CRJ, but last I checked, my Cherokee keeps flying without an airspeed indicator. But you're right, what are the chances?

I'd be far more worried about a bullet to the engine, or worse - a bullet to the pilot's seat!!

actually i think it was an A-10 over in Iraq. I could be wrong. Yeah, all planes can fly without an airspeed indicator. but that would really suck. anyway that plane landed safely. female pilot too. pics are up on the web somewhere. cant believe that plane made it back.

Who are you going to fly for once you're in Georgia? I guess there's lots of carriers flying RJ's.

I've seen you pilots from Down East before....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeJMuFjQz8k

[Fuzzness 2]

I would have been worried about a bullet going through the pitot tube. I heard of that happening before. what are the chances??

Pitot tube? I don't know about being all that worried about the pitot tube. I don't know about your CRJ, but last I checked, my Cherokee keeps flying without an airspeed indicator. But you're right, what are the chances?

I'd be far more worried about a bullet to the engine, or worse - a bullet to the pilot's seat!!

actually i think it was an A-10 over in Iraq. I could be wrong. Yeah, all planes can fly without an airspeed indicator. but that would really suck. anyway that plane landed safely. female pilot too. pics are up on the web somewhere. cant believe that plane made it back.

Who are you going to fly for once you're in Georgia? I guess there's lots of carriers flying RJ's.

I've seen you pilots from Down East before....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeJMuFjQz8k

well nobody without a pilot license. i'm a virtual pilot not a real pilot

this is what i use along with MS FS9

http://wilcopub.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=prod_crj_fleet

[Flames9_RN 358]

I would have been worried about a bullet going through the pitot tube. I heard of that happening before. what are the chances??

Pitot tube? I don't know about being all that worried about the pitot tube. I don't know about your CRJ, but last I checked, my Cherokee keeps flying without an airspeed indicator. But you're right, what are the chances?

I'd be far more worried about a bullet to the engine, or worse - a bullet to the pilot's seat!!

Thats why you have a co-pilot!! lol I miss my days flying on the CP 140 Aurora (P3C) Best job in the world!!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

It's pathetic what Canada is allowing to go on there.

Like I already said, there would be no Canada if the white man had just stayed home. Everything else is an offshoot of that original crime.

That's history that can't be changed. What CAN be changed is what is happening right now.

It can be fixed. Go back to Europe. Give them their land back and take your liquor stores with you.

[BR549 0]

It's pathetic what Canada is allowing to go on there.

Like I already said, there would be no Canada if the white man had just stayed home. Everything else is an offshoot of that original crime.

That's history that can't be changed. What CAN be changed is what is happening right now.

It can be fixed. Go back to Europe. Give them their land back and take your liquor stores with you.

You don't happen to live in someone's native land do you? Just trying to get some hackles up? Must be a real power trip. Go get yourself a beer.

[happyimmigrant 0]

It's pathetic what Canada is allowing to go on there.

Like I already said, there would be no Canada if the white man had just stayed home. Everything else is an offshoot of that original crime.

That's history that can't be changed. What CAN be changed is what is happening right now.

It can be fixed. Go back to Europe. Give them their land back and take your liquor stores with you.

I'm not from Europe. Nor did anyone take any land from any natives now living. Like it or not, that's the current situation, and moaning about what has happened in the past is not going to fix it. Of course, this is what the Indians think will work, as they obviously keep trying it over and over...

[Flames9_RN 358]

I would just ignore A.Smith. just trying to raise ones hackles,why people enjoy that is beyond me.

[Fuzzness 2]

It's pathetic what Canada is allowing to go on there.

Like I already said, there would be no Canada if the white man had just stayed home. Everything else is an offshoot of that original crime.

That's history that can't be changed. What CAN be changed is what is happening right now.

It can be fixed. Go back to Europe. Give them their land back and take your liquor stores with you.

I'm not from Europe. Nor did anyone take any land from any natives now living. Like it or not, that's the current situation, and moaning about what has happened in the past is not going to fix it. Of course, this is what the Indians think will work, as they obviously keep trying it over and over...

that's just how i think too. of course i feel terrible for the indians having their lands taken away a long time ago. but that was then. i wasn't around then. i didn't take anything from anyone. nor am i responsible for the black slaves a long time ago. nor am i responsible for the holocaust.

[happyimmigrant 0]

This is a sign of what is going to happen here if the government doesn't settle this SOON:

Calls to end Caledonia blockade draw cheers

Townspeople boo speaker from OPP; 500 rush police line near occupation site

KATE HARRIES

With reports from Karen Howlett and Canadian Press

CALEDONIA, ONT. -- Waving Canadian flags, a crowd of about 2,000 people cheered wildly at a meeting in Caledonia as speakers called for an end to the Six Nations occupation of a construction site and blockade of the Southern Ontario town's main highway.

"We feel it's time that Canadians hear from the tax-paying community of Caledonia whose voice has not been heard," said protest organizer Ken Hewitt, who blasted Prime Minister Stephen Harper for inaction and leaving the matter to be "settled in the courts at our expense."

"We do not want the lawlessness to continue," he said, adding "the residents of Caledonia do not support the land transfer of Douglas Creek Development to the native protesters."

Because of the turnout, the meeting was moved from the municipal office to the fairgrounds beside the Grand River.

Ontario Provincial Police Inspector Brian Haggith, an invited speaker, was booed when he stepped to the microphone.

"Get those outlaws out of there," a man shouted.

Insp. Haggith called for patience. "Anger, fear and violence will not solve anything," he said.

As darkness fell about two hours later, about 500 people rushed a line of about 100 police officers near the site of the occupation. They chanted, "Do your job" and "We're fed up" at the police officers. A few yelled racial slurs aimed at the Six Nations occupiers who were about 250 metres down the road.

Police kept the mob made up of area residents at bay as several cars and more aboriginal protesters could be seen rushing to the other side of a police barrier that kept the two sides about 200 metres apart.

A crowd of residents swarmed a police cruiser when one non-native was arrested at the frenzied scene.

Furious residents waved Canadian flags as they chanted "Let us through" and urged police to "Open the road."

Six Nations leaders urged their supporters to move back and keep behind a barricade thrown up Thursday on Highway 6, the main artery for this bedroom community of 10,000 south of Hamilton.

In an interview hours before the protest meeting yesterday, organizer Mr. Hewitt said the goal of the gathering was to allow the community's voice to be heard. "Our concerns are not with the natives; our concerns are with the process."

But, he said: "We don't believe you can be in negotiations when one of the parties is performing an illegal act by blocking one of the roads. Our town shouldn't be the victim or the tool to control the government."

Mr. Hewitt, a financial-services consultant, said there also has to be a better way of dealing with land claims. "The [federal] government has tiptoed around these issues for generations. I'm tired of seeing tax dollars spent on how to deal with it rather than deal with it."

Negotiations between Six Nations and the federal and provincial governments are to resume tomorrow. The occupation began Feb. 28. The OPP raided the site Thursday to enforce injunctions obtained by Henco Industries, which bought the site 15 years ago. Police were pushed back a few hours later after residents poured from of the nearby reserve to support the occupiers.

In conducting the raid, the OPP ignored its own protocol calling for avoiding the use of force in conflicts with native communities.

Community Safety Minister Monte Kwinter confirmed yesterday that police had been responding to a court order when they swooped in. An Ontario Court judge had ordered protesters to leave the site by March 22 or face being arrested for contempt of court.

While Mr. Kwinter said the police protocol applies to general land-claims disputes, New Democratic Party Leader Howard Hampton chided the Ontario government for not providing the police with guidance on how to deal with the dispute and to remind them about the protocol. He said public policy should override private court orders.