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Calls to seat Mich. delegates to grow

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WASHINGTON -- Even before Tuesday's primary win in Pennsylvania, Hillary Clinton's surrogates were renewing calls for Michigan's votes to count, repeating a trend begun more than a month ago in Ohio.

Don't expect a new push for a do-over election. But the seating of Michigan's and Florida's disallowed delegates will be a theme as Clinton takes her fight to another industrial state, Indiana, which votes May 6.

Clinton won Michigan's Jan. 15 primary when her only real opponent was a vote for "Uncommitted" because Barack Obama and other key candidates in the race at that time had taken their names off the ballot.

They did so because the national Democratic Party had already declared that Michigan's vote (and later Florida's) didn't count because the state had scheduled a contest too early under party rules.

On Tuesday, Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, a Clinton supporter, again called for Michigan's votes to count, like those in Florida, charging that a do-over could have occurred if Obama's campaign hadn't "moved in and stopped" it. It was an accusation the Obama camp declined to comment on.

Michigan's Legislature wouldn't authorize a do-over election, which would have allowed both candidates to compete in Michigan and allocate delegates under party rules. Obama's campaign raised concerns about some of the proposals, including those that would have blocked anyone who voted in the Jan. 15 Republican primary from taking part.

For Clinton to have a chance of getting back in the race, however, Michigan is key.

The only way she can overcome Obama's delegate edge and the popular vote -- including caucuses -- is for the disallowed primaries in Michigan and Florida to be counted since she easily won both. That, and her wins in key, large states like California, New York, Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania, would permit her to argue to unpledged superdelegates that she is the best candidate.

Still, Obama has won more states -- and the popular vote -- though Clinton's victory in Pennsylvania eats into that lead and serves as a reminder to Democrats how potent a candidate she is with rank-and-file members of the party.

David Bonior, a former Macomb County congressman who ran John Edwards' unsuccessful presidential run this year, said he doesn't believe Clinton's argument for the nomination will succeed.

"She's got to win everything" remaining, he said Tuesday night. And with Obama holding a lead in the polls in North Carolina -- which votes the same day as Indiana -- and a sizable fund-raising advantage, that appears unlikely.

Debbie Dingell, a Democratic national committeewoman, predicted Michigan and Florida's delegations would be seated before the convention in Denver in August, saying the various parties continue to talk.

"I just think Michigan's in a kind of limbo," said Bill Ballenger, publisher of the Lansing-based newsletter Inside Michigan Politics.

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I thought, MI and FL broke the DNC rule. Last night, Tim Russert of MSNBC said that Hillary said before that she won't compete in MI and FL.


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They should just re-run the elections in MI and FL and get it over with. If they did that, Obama

would probably still keep his popular vote lead, but Hill wouldn't be too far behind.


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Delegates can be seated, but that doesnt mean it will count for her.

Based on the results on the election all the delagates would go to Hillary which will not go down nicely.

If they are seated, its either thier votes will still not count, or they will be split 50/50 between Obama and Clinton. I can't see how she plans to gain any advantage from pushing to seat the delegates.


keTiiDCjGVo

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Delegates can be seated, but that doesnt mean it will count for her.

Based on the results on the election all the delagates would go to Hillary which will not go down nicely.

If they are seated, its either thier votes will still not count, or they will be split 50/50 between Obama and Clinton. I can't see how she plans to gain any advantage from pushing to seat the delegates.

Yeah, cuz that's fair!

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Yeah, cuz that's fair!

Well, giving her all the votes would also be unfair.

Sure. But Obama won't agree to any sort of a do-over, cuz he knows he won't win!

Sure, the Michigan legislature wasnt able to put together a bill to do a revote. I guess anything that doesnt go in Hillarys favor is automatically Obamas fault.

Obama's koolaid is some good stuff isnt it?


keTiiDCjGVo

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Yeah, cuz that's fair!

Well, giving her all the votes would also be unfair.

Sure. But Obama won't agree to any sort of a do-over, cuz he knows he won't win!

Funny that Obama didn't do very well in the most important swing states - OH, NH, PA, MI, FL, AR, NE, NM.

Not good if he hopes to beat McCain in those states.


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It would certainly be unfair to do a revote when the opposition candidate is known. 160,000 Republicans voted as Democrats in the Penn primary. I would argue that you wouldn't seen such a vast number a few months ago.


"It's not the years; it's the mileage." Indiana Jones

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It would certainly be unfair to do a revote when the opposition candidate is known. 160,000 Republicans voted as Democrats in the Penn primary. I would argue that you wouldn't seen such a vast number a few months ago.

Nevertheless, if there is one thing that Democratic leaders can take encouragement from in Pennsylvania’s results, it was another huge turnout in a primary -- more than 2.3 million voters. In the 2004 presidential general election, Democratic nominee John Kerry won some 2.9 million votes in the Keystone State.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonline/cm_20080422_1883.php

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Yeah, cuz that's fair!

Well, giving her all the votes would also be unfair.

Sure. But Obama won't agree to any sort of a do-over, cuz he knows he won't win!

Funny that Obama didn't do very well in the most important swing states - OH, NH, PA, MI, FL, AR, NE, NM.

Not good if he hopes to beat McCain in those states.

Thats what it looks like right now. But if he chooses the right VP candidate, (especially hillary if they can reconcile thier differnces) He could very well have no trouble getting those states to vote for him in November.

Both candidates appeal to a core demographic, that demographic will likely vote for Hillary or Obama no matter who the candidate is.

Both candidates also have thier own unique demographics. For Hillary, it is Older voters and blue collar voters, and to an extent, hispanics. For Obama, its new voters, young voters, college educated voters, and by a large margin african american voters.

In the general election, both candidates could win with the core democrats and their unique demographics. But it would be an close race in either matchup.

To win outright, both candidates need to appeal to the demographics of the other candidate. If Obama chooses the right VP candidate he probably has the easier battle. Hillary's unique demographic is likely to vote anyway. While much of Obama's unique demographic is likely to stay home. For Hillary to win outright, she has to not only pursade Obama's demographic to vote for her, but to actually show up to vote in November.

The Democrats might win in November with either candidate, but will win the nominee can reconcile the differences within the party.


keTiiDCjGVo

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I guess anything that doesnt go in Hillarys favor is automatically Obamas fault.

From the Obama campaign:

"Senator Obama firmly believes that the Michigan delegation should be seated in Denver. A 50/50 split of the delegates is an eminently fair solution, especially since originally Senator Clinton herself said the Michigan primary wouldn't 'count for anything.' It's now up to the Clinton campaign: they can agree to a fair resolution or they can continue trying to score political points and change the rules. It's time to move forward. Senator Clinton should accept an equitable solution that allows Michigan to participate fully in the convention," said Obama campaign manager David Plouffe.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200.../04/861031.aspx

:lol:

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On Aug. 25, when the DNC's rules panel declared Florida's primary date out of order, it agreed by a near-unanimous majority to exceed the 50 percent penalty called for under party rules. Instead, the group stripped Florida of all 210 delegates to underscore its displeasure with Florida's defiance and to discourage other states from following suit. In doing so, the DNC essentially committed itself, for fairness' sake, to strip the similarly defiant Michigan of all 156 of its delegates three months later. Clinton held tremendous potential leverage over this decision, and not only because she was then widely judged the likely nominee. Of the committee's 30 members, a near-majority of 12 were Clinton supporters. All of them—most notably strategist Harold Ickes—voted for Florida's full disenfranchisement. (The only dissenting vote was cast by a Tallahassee, Fla., city commissioner who supported Obama.)

On Sept. 1, the Clinton campaign issued this ringing statement:

We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar.

http://www.slate.com/id/2188985/pagenum/2/

As the only top tier Democrat remaining on Michigan ballot, Clinton is all but guaranteed to win the state's primary. Michigan is tentatively slated to send 156 delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention, but national party officials have threatened to take away those delegates if the state persists in holding its primary on Jan. 15.

"It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," Clinton said Thursday during an interview on New Hampshire Public Radio's call-in program, "The Exchange."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...1100859_pf.html

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