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Posted
Dont be naive....the USCIS case files are full of exactly what Tito describes...I have read similar reports here on VJ....marriage fraud is the biggest visa fraud that USCIS faces..something like 8%, the stories of which you will never read here, as no one is going to lay out here what they are planning.

Taking your 8% figure at face-value, that leaves 92% of cases non-fraudulent.

Again, nobody is saying these cases don't exist. But scare-mongering is completely unhelpful.

I agree that the average person has no idea how many fraud situations there are. Most people think of fraud as two individuals, complicit in a scheme "pretending" marriage so that the alien can gain residency, and the USC gets a fad wad of money for doing so. But there is a whole other type of fraud, where one party in none the wiser and is blindsided by reality when the alien selects the time to make his or her agenda known.

Perhaps tito is trying to drill home that fact......

"diaddie mermaid"

You can 'catch' me on here and on FBI.

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Posted
Dont be naive....the USCIS case files are full of exactly what Tito describes...I have read similar reports here on VJ....marriage fraud is the biggest visa fraud that USCIS faces..something like 8%, the stories of which you will never read here, as no one is going to lay out here what they are planning.

Some ppl petition for their K-1, that K-1 (from countries I wont mention here) come to the US, buy a ticket to a third destination to be with their families or relatives....the poor petitioner never had a clue.

Maybe that's true, and that's why I think that the rules for bringing a foreign beneficiary into the country should be stricter ( FYI, I'm a foreign beneficiary/immigrant). Some of the stories about the transcontinental relationships are just scary.

Some people bring their fiances/spouses over to the US after having met only once or twice in person, and then they are stunned when the immigrants turn out to be completely different than what they had expected. What did they expect in the first place? How could they think that they knew the other one at all, after having met a handful of times, and what are they complaining about later, when reality hits them?

The same is applicable for the immigrant. Marrying somebody on the basis of having met once and having exchanged emails is pretty adventurous.

Having met once or twice is a tough basis for a marriage and soil which can breed a lot of disappointment and bitterness. That's why I think that the requirement of having met in person once within two years should maybe be a little stricter, maybe that would spare many couples a lot of heartache.

It is not easy to make a marriage work even for people who have spent quite a while with each other before they got married, and who knew each other's quirks and habits before. It must be even harder for folks who don't know each other at all.

But assuming that not all of the K1/K3 beneficiaries are GC-scammers, why do so many USC's scream "FRAUD" if things go wrong in the marriage? Why do most of them seem to be so eager to have the beneficiary's b&6%tt kicked out of the country ASAP?

I doubt that all of beneficiaries ( and please note that I am talking about those immigrants who came to the US for love and not for a Green Card - which is not even green, by the way ;) ) will always necessarily pull the "hey...the USC has signed an Affidavit of Support! " card and will go pursue that route.

To the OP: you have every right to withdraw your Affidavit of Support and you should do so, no doubt. But if you don't

necessarily think that you have been a victim of a GC-scammer but rather that your marriage did not work out because of other reasons, why not let her stay in the US if that's what she wants and let her move on with her life?

Here's what I don't understand when it comes to these discussions whether the immigrant should leave the country after a divorce, or not: if it has been a bona fide relationship (I'm not talking about GC-crime) - why not live and let live???

Why necessarily destroy each other's lives? It's a more than valid point that once the immigrant leaves his/her home-country it's not easy to go back and start all over again from zero. Even more if kids are involved.

And from a human point of view: " So, the marriage to a foreigner doesn't work? No problem, send them back home!"

That sounds to me like shopping at Target: " Not happy with our product? No problem, you'll get your money back!"

In my opinion the problem begins with the fact that many people start the adventure called marriage without knowing each other, at all.

Best of luck to you, Habilus!

07-25-07 petition sent

08-07-07 NOA1

01-23-08 NOA2, 182 days after filing

02-11-08 medical

03-04-08 interview in Frankfurt---approved!

03-11-8 Visa in hand --- what a heck of a procedure for this little sticker ;-)

06-16-08 flight to IAD

07-11-08 Wedding in Santa Barbara, CA

08-07-8 AOS package sent

08-10-08 AOS package delivered to Chicago lockbox

08-14-08 check cashed

08-13-08 NOA1 for EAD,AP,AOS

09-03-08 Biometrics appointment

10-02-08 Case transferred to CSC

10-16-08 EAD and AP approved

01-26-09 AOS approved w/o interview

01-31-09 PERMANENT RESIDENT CARD RECEIVED

02-11-11 Biometric Appointment for Removing of Conditions

Our Wedding Pics:

http://picasaweb.google.com/rahela07/OurWedding07112008

Posted

"why do so many USC's scream "FRAUD" if things go wrong in the marriage?"

Great question...usually it's when the immigrant runs to authorities and claims ABUSE! As I've said here and elsewhere, either the immigrant wants things on their terms, and might have a particular agenda in mind, and if things don't work out, no matter their responsibility for the situation or relationship, they cry 'foul' because the USC didn't satisfy their expectations by delivering them on a silver platter...; or, the immigrant has a hard time adjusting to the pace, economics, and social aspect of life in the US (especially if they're from a place that is so different), and perceives the attempts on the part of the USC to help out the best they can as they have to deal with all the pressures of life with work, car payments, insurance payments, traffic, mortgage, and so on and so forth, as abuse, as being controlling, or something like that.

Truth of the matter is...the immigrant has a significant responsibility for the relationship, too, and if, in the eyes of the USC, they aren't pulling their weight, the USC comes to the conclusion that all the promises, all the emotion, all the sacrifice, all the work, was just a bunch of BS on the part of the immigrant so that the immigrant could come to the US. THAT is why the USC looks at the situation as "fraudulent". The situation is compounded when the immigrant runs to authorities and claims abuse as a way to get his or her green card regardless, and that leaves the USC even MORE confused as to the intentions of the immigrant in the first place.

Posted

"Tito is not offering advice. He's just taking advantage of the opportunity to once again advance his anti-immigrant agenda. Do a search on his posts. He says the same thing over and over and over. He twists topics to shoe-horn his "she will claim abuse just you watch and see" argument, often under the guise of his so-called "professional" experience in the matter, which is always nebulous and ill-defined. (at one time he claimed not to work with immigration cases, and now we see that his "office" sees these cases all the time) He does not contribute to the conversation, and he has no interest in helping the OP or anyone else. He is simply using VJ as a platform to advance his own anti-immigrant agenda."

This is absurd. You are melding a bunch of different things together to create your OWN agenda. And I repeat the question: is it that you get your jollies seeing others suffer in failed relationshps? Or are you just anticipating what best to do in the event your relationship doesn't work out? Not clear about your agenda.

My advice is sound. Quit putting words and ideas and sentiments into my mouth because of your own agenda. To clarify: I am not an immigration attorney, but the immigration issues are prevalent in my office. I am participating here because all this warm-fuzzy "advice" about the poor defenseless immigrant running from a vicious monster that is the USC fails to take into consideration other options; also, there are stories here that repeat from people that come from the same certain places, and the places and fact patterns are remarkably similar. In such circumstances, the USC needs to understand the situation and the reasonably probable consequences of the actions of the immigrant who is often willing to do and say anything to stay in the US. If things are so bad, indeed, going home should be the first option, not levying some undefined claim of abuse against the USC.

Sorry - but that's just the reality, no matter your particular fantasy - and that certainly manifests repeatedly. Thanks for following me around and paying so much attention to what I'm saying - I AM truly flattered - but enough already.

Posted (edited)

"Tito - how come you have so much knowledge on this topic?"

I see it every...single...day...in the course of my practice. Do you have a different experience? This isn't 'scare mongering'. It's reality for those who come here wanting to know the situation. In cases of failed relationships where immigration is an issue, this is important information for a USC. And when the failed relationships stem from immigrants from certain countries or parts of the world, the likelihood of a particular course of action is tried and true. But...not every relationship from a particular part of the world is destined for failure...on the other hand, IF the relationship fails soon out of the gate, AND the immigrant is from this or that place, THEN the likelihood is that such claims will be made in order to secure the green card. The immigrants are well coached in advance, and know exactly what to do.

Edited by tito
Filed: Timeline
Posted
"Tito - how come you have so much knowledge on this topic?"

I see it every...single...day...in the course of my practice. Do you have a different experience?

I have knowledge and experience, but hopefully the information that is delivered, is done so in such a way that people might be willing to accept it :lol:

"diaddie mermaid"

You can 'catch' me on here and on FBI.

Posted

Whether the truth is something palatable or not is something people simply need to get over. There are certain things in these discussions that can't be sugarcoated. Some people have some significantly thin skin and take comments personally for whatever reason when they are not directed at them and do not deal with their particular experience. But taken in the manner intended, you will note that there is nothing misleading. People do what they do, say what they say, and the circumstances are something I see regularly, like it or not. If people want to live a different reality, that's fine. I'm sharing my experience and background because they do offer a perspective that DOESN'T sugarcoat things.

I'm not here to render legal advice to complete strangers, and I am extremely careful not to do so. Instead, I participate in order to share the experience of my practice, so I absolutely will not get into any specifics beyond that. This is an internet forum where people come to share experiences or seek opinions and perspective from others. The bases for my perspective are both personal and professional experience, and there's nothing more I can, will, want, or need to state. I'm not going to go around in circles and play that game as I mentioned when you first popped off. If you look at the comments I make, they are consistent, they are based on experience and practice, and are, for better or worse, accurate. This spin-doctoring of yours reflects that you are not interested in the MESSAGE, but rather the person posting. Again, I'm flattered, but stick to the message...

Filed: Timeline
Posted
Whether the truth is something palatable or not is something people simply need to get over. There are certain things in these discussions that can't be sugarcoated. Some people have some significantly thin skin and take comments personally for whatever reason when they are not directed at them and do not deal with their particular experience. But taken in the manner intended, you will note that there is nothing misleading. People do what they do, say what they say, and the circumstances are something I see regularly, like it or not. If people want to live a different reality, that's fine. I'm sharing my experience and background because they do offer a perspective that DOESN'T sugarcoat things.

I'm not here to render legal advice to complete strangers, and I am extremely careful not to do so. Instead, I participate in order to share the experience of my practice, so I absolutely will not get into any specifics beyond that. This is an internet forum where people come to share experiences or seek opinions and perspective from others. The bases for my perspective are both personal and professional experience, and there's nothing more I can, will, want, or need to state. I'm not going to go around in circles and play that game as I mentioned when you first popped off. If you look at the comments I make, they are consistent, they are based on experience and practice, and are, for better or worse, accurate. This spin-doctoring of yours reflects that you are not interested in the MESSAGE, but rather the person posting. Again, I'm flattered, but stick to the message...

tito,

For the most part I have read what you've written with an open mind. Your comments above are all well and good, and I don't for one moment question the fact that you have both professional experience and personal experience that forms the basis for what you have declared.

That being said, you do appear to do a disservice to your cause by being so quick to consider others' as being unqualified to comment and to suggest that a vast number of aliens will follow the steps you have clearly defined. Well, let me say that in another way. I sense that you believe your experience gives you the best insight into the minds of a would-be con-artist and you are suggesting that this is a widespread issue. Frankly, I take exception to that. There's is no doubt in my mind that you may have been played by an immigrant. However, to paint all immigrants with the same brush, claiming that "this is what he or she will do" sends a very inaccurate message of the real dynamics involved when an alien uses a marriage to a USC for his or her immigration benefit.

The fact is that aliens that defraud US citizens into marriage typically don't do it by way of claiming abuse before they have adjusted status. For one thing, the bar is raised in such circumstances, and the "gold at the end of the rainbow" a fleeting and distant prize. Many abuse claims never get past the prima facie determination.

No, the alien that is "in it" for immigration benefit is a calculated individual. He has his route planned from the outset, and only under rare circumstances would he play his hand before he has accomplished his quest. To mix that individual in with a whole bevvy of others that are neither well-schooled in the art of conning another person, nor driven by a prime motivation to gain residency in America is unjust to those of us that know better.

"diaddie mermaid"

You can 'catch' me on here and on FBI.

Posted (edited)

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

Edited by tito
Filed: Timeline
Posted
At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

"diaddie mermaid"

You can 'catch' me on here and on FBI.

Posted (edited)
At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

Hi Tito,

Most of your posting are good but how about when children is involved? just leaved behind or take the kid?

Edited by SJ
Filed: Timeline
Posted
At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

Well, one can only surmise that you were taken advantage of personally, and your professional experience, while not an immigration lawyer, must be closely enough associated with aliens seeking immigration benefits in some way.

Nonetheless, there are others that have personal experience, that do not tend to lump all aliens in one class, and still are able to offer insight to USCs to be prepared for one of these scenarios you describe so well. The distinction is to be able to identify when such advice is wise, and when it is not germane. There are aliens that have a legitimate right to remain in the USA. At the same time, I think we all understand that there are always some that do not have such a right.

"diaddie mermaid"

You can 'catch' me on here and on FBI.

Filed: Other Timeline
Posted (edited)
Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out. What started as an optimistic future has become a marriage of convenience for her and her daughters immigration. The financial and emotional toll on my children and I has been nearly unbearable.

We are at the point that the adjustment of status has been applied for and her appointment for biometrics is in 2 weeks.

Thus far, I've issued stop payment on the checks and sent letters to the national and local offices withdrawing my endorsement of the affidavit of support. All of this unbeknownst to her.

Her visa expires, coincidentally, on the 4th of July 2008.

Can I still stop her adjustment of status?

If so, will the USCIS send a letter telling her to leave the country?

Thank you for any help.

Brian

You know, tito, I guess different people read things differently.

I look at this post and I see the bolded part. I could be wrong but to me, it sounds like the OP and foreign born spouse are still sharing the same household. Now I'm no idiot and I realize a claim of spousal abuse can still be made even though the intending immigrant never flees the abusive household. But I'd say that raises the bar of proof (which mermaid spoke of earlier) to a higher level still.

I also observe the expiration date of the visa. Looks like a K3 to me - it sure doesn't fit the pattern of a K1. If I'm right, the couple has been married around 18 months. Not the picture you paint of the immigrant looking to yell 'abuse' the moment things go sour. From the few sentences we've been given, I see a marriage that's been going south for a while.

Possible frauding of the USC by the immigrant? Maybe.

But once again I see the USC ready to pull the affidavit and send the immigrant packing. If there's been real, unmitigated, planned fraud on the part of the immigrant, I have no problem with that attitude. But a human being isn't like a toaster over we can return to Wal-Mart if it starts going on the fritz. For that reason, these posts always bug me.

We sure as hell can't tell what's going on with this couple from the few sentences Brian gave us. But most of the time, I'd be willing to bet my right arm that these sad failed marriages just plain old break down. No fraud, no abuse. They just break down. The partners in the marriage lash out at each other with different tools than what we see in a customary domestic marriage, but the shattered result is unfortunately, the same.

Edited by rebeccajo
Posted

OF COURSE there are a myriad of variables involved. The instances I see here, however, and in practice, seem to have a familiar fact pattern...the country, the apparent acumen of the immigrant, the duration of the relationship, age, maturity, cultural awareness, circumstances regarding the genesis of the relationship, the clues about how the relationship began what seems like its sudden demise, the duration of the relationship, the time spent in the US...I'm not lumping every immigrant situation into one bucket. To the contrary. I AM, however, generalizing based on those familiar fact patterns, the same countries involved, the similar apparent sophistication of the immigrant and, among other things, the fact that the claims being made generally DO sound the same...hints of claims about abuse, control, manipulation...it's all right here. My point is that I don't think it's right to take things at face value without considering (i) what the other side of the story might be, and (ii) whether, under the circumstances, it would be best for the immigrant to return home. There's quite a bit of warm and fuzzy best wishes and all, with people wanting to do good, dispensing advice about protecting onesself, going to shelters, reporting to the police, and things like that, but things don't really add up in many of these instances where the poster is searching for sympathy for her cause.

Would it matter if a child is involved? Was the child that of the USC as well? What was the relationship between the USC and the child? Sure those are variables. But if life is so terrible for an immigrant, rather than try to bootstrap something to make sure that the immigrant gets his or her green card, why ISN'T going home an option? That's my question...

Regarding the viability of an abuse claim that would entitle the immigrant to self apply? They absolutely CAN be a piece of cake! As I mentioned in other posts, there are attorneys out there who send their prospective immigrant clients to a psychologist who does a work-up that concludes that the immigrant was absolutely traumatized! There is no testimony from the USC who is accused of the abuse. In the interim, during the time this case is being prosecuted, the immigrant lives here often times on the dime of the USC, or taxpayers.

So...there are variables, indeed; there are other options for the immigrant who ought to consider going home as one of them; an abuse case can be and they often are a stepping stone for an immigrant whose motives might not have been as savory as initially imagined by the USC.

There is a basis for the stuff I'm saying, and if it's being repeated, it is due to the fact that the same warm-fuzzy sympathy is constantly smothering a different reality, and it is important to contemplate another point of view and perspective.

 
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