OT: Russian Language Lessons

[Okiebollweevil 0]

Had my first lesson with my tutor last night, and it went really well. What a world of difference it makes speaking with someone face to face.

It also made me realize two of the biggest problems with the Rosetta Stone course: they don't teach gender cases (at least early on, maybe in advanced), and they don't teach the infinitive case (again, at least early on, but this is when they should be teaching it). For example, she asked me to say the word for cat and I said "кошка," as I had learned in Rosetta. Which is fine if you're talking about the female case. The masculine form is "кот," and is the more normal way of saying it if you're just talking about cats in general.

For the infinitive case, to read is "читать." But the Rosetta course has you learn "читает," which is correct if you're saying "he is reading," (and they do indeed show a picture of someone reading, so they're not wrong per se) but it gets confusing when you have to learn the different forms of the word without first knowing the infinitive case. And because Rosetta is based solely around "look at the picture and say the word," you don't really get a good understanding of why you would say it one way this time, and another way the next time.

All good stuff, and she's tailoring our lessons to fit my circumstances. We're not really going for "Russian 101," but more of a "How to speak with your Russian woman and her family without looking like too much of a dumbasz."

When my wife arrived she bought a English to Russian translator some pocket gizmo, and lathough she has really good English skills (Thank You LORD!!) she has burned through two translators in the last 4 years, some words really give her trouble, especially words that have more than one meaning. They are not cheap but well worth the money.

[slim 1,533]

I just wish we'd all switch to one language. When are we going to be a global population?

And for goodness sakes, can we start using the metric system already?

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

This why I dropped Rosetta Stone. You actually made be feel (Excuse me, I chose to feel, in case AKDiver is reading) better about my Russian abilities.

The only way, in my opinion, to learn Russian is from a Russian. Having lived with my Alla in Russia for my year was phenomenal in helping me learn the distinctions you speak about.

Oh, in case she asks about a dog...

male = собака

female = сука

Oh and Slim, I'm all for the metric system. I really wish we could all be on the same page for that one.

[slim 1,533]

I think for ease of worldwide use, it would have to be a language already in common usage.

Chinese wouldn't be a bad choice as something like one-in-five already speak it.

However, a language like Spanish, English or German would probably be easier for the whole world to use because of it's prevalence already on marketed goods and in films, etc. And the abundance of training resources. (Not that the Chinese couldn't easily produce them overnight!)

And metric system all the way. Perhaps maybe we can e-mail one of the candidates and get them to run on the "Metric System in '08" campaign.

[eekee 182]

I would never say сука when actually talking about a dog. собака is the neutral term for a dog. the analogous phrase of сука is кобель. I hope you were trying to trick mox into embarassing himself in front of his tutor cause everyone knows that сука generally means something VERY different. :)

Also, кот is tomcat and is used the same way as tomcat is in english. Кошка, while it does mean girlcat, is used more often. It's also more endearing towards cats. So it's really personal preference, but it's not like you can only say кот when referring to cats in general. you can use either, with кошка being more common, in my experience. And also big cats (lions tigers etc.) are семейство кошачьих.

I think rosetta stone is a big waste of money for the reasons mox mentioned. yeah, it's based on the theory of teaching it like you learned your first language... but you're not a child anymore and you need to actually, you know, study and learn the rules of grammar.

And the metric system is the best. It makes so much more sense. I wish America would realize this.

This why I dropped Rosetta Stone. You actually made be feel (Excuse me, I chose to feel, in case AKDiver is reading) better about my Russian abilities.

The only way, in my opinion, to learn Russian is from a Russian. Having lived with my Alla in Russia for my year was phenomenal in helping me learn the distinctions you speak about.

Oh, in case she asks about a dog...

male = собака

female = сука

Oh and Slim, I'm all for the metric system. I really wish we could all be on the same page for that one.

Edited February 28, 2008 by eekee

[eekee 182]

I would never say сука when actually talking about a dog. собака is the neutral term for a dog. the analogous phrase of сука is кобель. I hope you were trying to trick mox into embarassing himself in front of his tutor cause everyone knows that сука generally means something VERY different. :)

Hehe, yeah I don't think he meant to trick me, but I do know the "alternate" meaning of сука (having read "Dermo" ), and would have been pretty leery about using it. Fortunately she has a great sense of humor, so the worst that would have happened is she'd have got a good laugh.

Also, кот is tomcat and is used the same way as tomcat is in english. Кошка, while it does mean girlcat, is used more often. It's also more endearing towards cats. So it's really personal preference, but it's not like you can only say кот when referring to cats in general. you can use either, with кошка being more common, in my experience. And also big cats (lions tigers etc.) are семейство кошачьих.

My tutor is from Ukraine. She says кот is used more often. Maybe it is a regional difference? It doesn't matter too much I suppose, either way someone is going to know what I'm talking about, and that's my biggest priority. I want to be understood. Maybe later I will try to learn to pass myself off as a Muscovite. (and dear god, I hope I don't have to remember "семейство кошачьих" any time soon! )

Yeah there are definitely some differences between russian in ukraine and russian in russia. I have mostly been taught petersburg russian (getting my bachelors in russian in may), and i say дождь the petersburg way as "дошт'" whereas in moscow i think they just say it the way it looks, so even between spb and moscow there are differences. Whenever i speak with my friend who moved to the us from odessa when she was five there's some usage differences which crop up. For instance, in russia you use тарелка to refer to plates AND bowls, and there is no separate word for bowl used. but Ukrainians who speak Russian do say миска for bowl, according to my friend. And they use a different word for eggplant. But yeah, generally russians have low standards for americans learning russian so it's not a huge concern. they generally appreciate the effort (rather than people who come to russia and try to conduct everything in english and don't understand why the guy at mcdonalds doesn't understand when they try to order a quarter pounder meal and don't thank people who translate for them, like me) and many russians find american accents in russian to be super cute.

Edited February 28, 2008 by eekee

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Me trick someone? Okay, actually, yes, I was being "cute". Just wanted to see how long it took for someone to correct me. Rather quickly, I see!

FWIW, in Kazan', кошка is used most often from what I've heard.

Hehe, yeah I don't think he meant to trick me, but I do know the "alternate" meaning of сука (having read "Dermo" ), and would have been pretty leery about using it. Fortunately she has a great sense of humor, so the worst that would have happened is she'd have got a good laugh.

[Bobalouie 0]

I hear Kishka in Sochi mostly, but I believe that is the word for kitten, if I am not mistaken.

[slim 1,533]

they try to fit the same pictures to all languages. So maybe one set of pictures will work well for German, but they don't make much sense for Russian.

From what I could tell, Russians and Germans like looking at the same pictures....

I have mostly been taught petersburg russian (getting my bachelors in russian in may), and i say дождь the petersburg way as "дошт'" whereas in moscow i think they just say it the way it looks, so even between spb and moscow there are differences.

When we were buying tickets to the Kremlin museum they tried to make my fiancee buy "foreigner" tickets because her Far East accent wasn't "Moscow" enough. (That and she was with an ugly fat guy, so that kind of gave it away.)

[eekee 182]

When we were buying tickets to the Kremlin museum they tried to make my fiancee buy "foreigner" tickets because her Far East accent wasn't "Moscow" enough. (That and she was with an ugly fat guy, so that kind of gave it away.)

i had a student id, so i always paid the russian student price, which was usually 0 roubles. my guy also tries to pay the student price and says he left his id at home. never works.

[eekee 182]

У Нины есть дети. "Nina eats children" would be Нина ест детей, because children are animate. Although now that I think about it, if they were eaten they wouldn't be animate for long.

I hate the verb есть in the sense of "to eat"... i always forget how to conjugate it.

[russ 1]

(2) My wife charges just $15 an hour for in person lessons if you are in the Davis, CA area, yeah, we moved a few months ago. If that helps any in terms of comparison.

I pay about $300/semester for 4 hour courses at the University. This is for 4 hours a week with a PhD in teaching Russian as a foreign language from Moscow State University, for 16 weeks. I think that this is the most cost effective way to go.

Private tutors are great, but they don't generally have the time to prepare lesson plans, go over homework, etc. I would look at tutors as something in addition to a classroom environment, which tends to be most effective.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

We always use the verb кушать for eating. Maybe it's a local thing. I never heard anyone use есть in Kazan' to say they eat.

У Нины есть дети. "Nina eats children" would be Нина ест детей, because children are animate. Although now that I think about it, if they were eaten they wouldn't be animate for long.

I hate the verb есть in the sense of "to eat"... i always forget how to conjugate it.

[eekee 182]

We always use the verb кушать for eating. Maybe it's a local thing. I never heard anyone use есть in Kazan' to say they eat.

У Нины есть дети. "Nina eats children" would be Нина ест детей, because children are animate. Although now that I think about it, if they were eaten they wouldn't be animate for long.

I hate the verb есть in the sense of "to eat"... i always forget how to conjugate it.

Кушать is like kid-speak. It's a familiar term for eating. So it's what moms use for their kids, wives for their husbands, etc. Anybody who has ever lived with a babushka has been chased around by one going "Куши! Куши!" and has nightmares about it. Generally if you need to address someone на вы, you wouldn't use кушать. Whereas есть is just the general verb for eating and turns into cъесть (ate everything on your plate ) наесться (ate too much) etc.

Edited March 5, 2008 by eekee

[eekee 182]

Кушать is like kid-speak. It's a familiar term for eating. So it's what moms use for their kids, wives for their husbands, etc. Anybody who has ever lived with a babushka has been chased around by one going "Куши! Куши!" and has nightmares about it. Generally if you need to address someone на вы, you wouldn't use кушать. Whereas есть is just the general verb for eating and turns into cъесть (ate everything on your plate ) наесться (ate too much) etc.

The verb "to eat" is "ест," isn't it? At least, that's how I understood where my confusion lay. Isn't "есть," some form of "to have?"

What made Olga laugh is that the sentence was supposed to be "Nina has children," but I read it as "Nina eats children" because I didn't realize the мягкий знак makes it a completely different word.

ест is the 3rd person singular form of the verb есть, to eat. Я ем, ты ешь, он/она ест, мы едем, вы едете, они едят. Есть is also another verb, which only exists in the infinitive (or суть in они, but i've never been clear on how to use суть as you can also use есть) which emphasizes the existence of something. У меня есть машина. I have a car and this car is real and exists. В магазине есть помидоры. In the store there are tomatoes, which are real and can be purchased for eating. So the negative is У меня нет машины, в магазине нет помидоров--No car exists which I own, there are no tomatoes in the store. So есть is to eat AND this special verb that emphasizes existence. In the past and future есть is выл/о/а and будет, so it's kind of considered a form of быть, linguistically.

I've heard rosetta stone only teaches the third person singular present tense form of a verb, which is pretty silly IMO, especially for russian. For that kind of money i want every conjugation and aspect!

There is also a different word to have, иметь, but it can only be used in very certain situations. Like if you said Я имею машину, it would sound to a russian speaker like you have sexual relations with your car. So stick to the у меня есть construction.

Edited March 5, 2008 by eekee