Cats?

[Mags 112]

I wasn't sure if I should update this thread or begin a new one with a different topic that would make the notice easier to see, but I wanted to let you all know that if you're going to fly with cats, don't fly Delta. Instead, fly Aeroflot.

The regulations for the two airlines are fairly similar (two cats maximum in the cabin, need to have proof of a rabies vaccine, and a general health certificate which can be gotten at SVO and is good for 24 hours). Where they differ is in the size and location of the carrier.

Delta will allow you to bring your cat onboard only if s/he weighs less than 10lbs. Then the cat must stay within a very small carrier (something like this), and must stay under the seat at all times. I wrote to Delta to ask if I could buy an extra seat and keep a larger carrier on that seat. Their reply was a big fat NO.

Yup, I had to keep my cats under the seats, however I suggest one of these carriers. Because they are softer they squish better but give your cat a little more room in general. Also comes with a nice faux sheepskin blanket. I bought one for each of my cats and have no complaints at all. I still use them for vets visits.

They are also airline approved.

I just want to add that for the "under the seat" method there is no carrier that you can buy that will enable them to stand up and move around that will fit under there - the space is just too shallow. If you want that then I suggest buying an extra seat. A flight from Russia is ALOT longer in duration than one from the UK, so it would probably be the best option, imo.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Mags

[mox 298]

Yup, I had to keep my cats under the seats, however I suggest one of these carriers. Because they are softer they squish better but give your cat a little more room in general. Also comes with a nice faux sheepskin blanket. I bought one for each of my cats and have no complaints at all. I still use them for vets visits.

They are also airline approved.

I'll second the Sherpa bag. I have a pug that flies with me occasionally. It fits perfectly under the seat, and has all kinds of ventilation. Somewhat pricey but worth every cent. And yeah, "airline approved" and all that.

I just want to add that for the "under the seat" method there is no carrier that you can buy that will enable them to stand up and move around that will fit under there - the space is just too shallow. If you want that then I suggest buying an extra seat. A flight from Russia is ALOT longer in duration than one from the UK, so it would probably be the best option, imo.

Also, what the airlines say and what the flight crew allows is often two different things. Any time I've ever had an empty seat next to me while traveling with the pug, they never had a problem with me sitting him up in the seat. I've never taken him out of the bag (pretty sure they'd have a problem with that) but I've never been told to put him back under the seat in-flight.

If you do purchase an extra seat, might be worth doing it in someone elses name. Have them check-in with you so the airline doesn't fill it with a stand-byer, and after checkin they can just leave the airport.

[shikarnov 7]

Who would imagine the Russian airline treating animals more humanely than the American.

Yeah, usually American airlines are more concerned with FAA rules and pre-flight safety inspections and all that nonsense.

Oh come on. The FAA's rules and regs are mostly nonsensical -- even the ones that are applied consistently. I mean, what harm could a cat in a carrier sitting on a bought and paid for seat bring to the plane that wouldn't be there under the seat? It's ridiculous.

Z

Edited January 29, 2008 by shikarnov

[shikarnov 7]

I just want to add that for the "under the seat" method there is no carrier that you can buy that will enable them to stand up and move around that will fit under there - the space is just too shallow. If you want that then I suggest buying an extra seat. A flight from Russia is ALOT longer in duration than one from the UK, so it would probably be the best option, imo.

Also, what the airlines say and what the flight crew allows is often two different things. Any time I've ever had an empty seat next to me while traveling with the pug, they never had a problem with me sitting him up in the seat. I've never taken him out of the bag (pretty sure they'd have a problem with that) but I've never been told to put him back under the seat in-flight.

If you do purchase an extra seat, might be worth doing it in someone elses name. Have them check-in with you so the airline doesn't fill it with a stand-byer, and after checkin they can just leave the airport.

Well, I agree that in-flight staff would probably be much more relaxed about the carrier on the seat. However, I wouldn't want to walk into the gate at SVO with something that didn't perfectly fit the regulation. I've seen a lot of people have problems with SVO staff for all kinds of little things. Generally, whenever I go in there, I try to have all my ducks in a row so as to minimize my contact with them.

As for purchasing a ticket in another persons' name -- normally I'd agree, but I don't think I've ever been on an SVO to JFK plane that filled up past 50%. Usually I'm fortunate enough to end up getting a row of 3 seats all to myself.

Z

[JVKn'CVO 11]

There are 2 ways pets can travel on an airplane: as checked luggage or as an import. Travelling as checked luggage implies that the pet is travelling accompanied with someone-international flights don't ussually allow pets in the cabin, so this means the pet is in the suitcase area in a pet carrier, and the owner/ person in charge is travelling on the same flight.

The airline will be the most reliable source of information on this issue. I brought my dog with me from Argentina with American Airlines, she travelled as checked luggage. She's a 40 pounds siberian husky and it costed me $100. She made it here safe and sound.

The costs can differ dramatically from one airline to the other. Continental gave me an estimate of $700 plus I would have to hire a customs broker This is because they do not allow pets to travel as checked luggage, only as import.

Once you shop around for costs, the airline will tell you exactly what you need and how to obtain it (plan ahead!). In our case, Anya had to have all her vaccinations up to date (less than 1 year but no less than 30 days), specially rabies, then I had to take all those papers to the national animals and plants department where they issued an international certificate.

You'll have to get a pet carrier, there are also pet carrier water bottles (they look like hamster's waterers, but bigger). You'll see nappy liners for carriers at the pet store, my vet adviced us against it because it has plastic at the bottom, and the animal can get anxious during the flight, chew on the plastic and can cause complications. She said to use generous amounts of newspaper in case of accidents instead.

Good luck, hope this helps!

Saludos,

Caro

Edited January 29, 2008 by JVKn'CVO

[mox 298]

You'll see nappy liners for carriers at the pet store, my vet adviced us against it because it has plastic at the bottom, and the animal can get anxious during the flight, chew on the plastic and can cause complications. She said to use generous amounts of newspaper in case of accidents instead.

Dramamine and Benadryl worked wonders for my dog, but CHECK WITH YOUR VET for dosages before "prescribing" these drugs. Don't give your pet Benadryl allergy either, just the normal kind.

I give both of these to my dog about an hour before the flight and he just dozes most of the flight. I've never taken him on a longer flight than 3 hours though, so I'm not sure how long you can keep pooch or kitty tranq'd, or how many dosages. Again, check with your vet. I'm speaking strictly for dogs, I don't know what the affect of these drugs is on cats.

[JVKn'CVO 11]

You'll see nappy liners for carriers at the pet store, my vet adviced us against it because it has plastic at the bottom, and the animal can get anxious during the flight, chew on the plastic and can cause complications. She said to use generous amounts of newspaper in case of accidents instead.

Dramamine and Benadryl worked wonders for my dog, but CHECK WITH YOUR VET for dosages before "prescribing" these drugs. Don't give your pet Benadryl allergy either, just the normal kind.

I give both of these to my dog about an hour before the flight and he just dozes most of the flight. I've never taken him on a longer flight than 3 hours though, so I'm not sure how long you can keep pooch or kitty tranq'd, or how many dosages. Again, check with your vet. I'm speaking strictly for dogs, I don't know what the affect of these drugs is on cats.

Although highly used, vets recommend against this now . The reason is that any tranquilizer depresses the swallowing reflex, so if the animal throws up during the trip, he/she could die

This is what my vet recommended, and AA and continental do not allow sedated pets to board the plane. This is for any amount, no matter how minimal.

As an alternative, you can introduce the pet to the carrier weeks before the trip, so that it becomes familiar with it. I put Anya's food bowl on her carrier so that she could have a familiar smell too.

Saludos,

Caro

Edited January 29, 2008 by JVKn'CVO

[mox 298]

Although highly used, vets recommend against this now . The reason is that any tranquilizer depresses the swallowing reflex, so if the animal throws up during the trip, he/she could die

This is what my vet recommended, and AA and continental do not allow sedated pets to board the plane. This is for any amount, no matter how minimal.

As an alternative, you can introduce the pet to the carrier weeks before the trip, so that it becomes familiar with it. I put Anya's food bowl on her carrier so that she could have a familiar smell too.

Saludos,

Caro

Hmmm...I haven't heard this. I'll give my vet a call this week and see what she says. Thanks for the info!

[JVKn'CVO 11]

Although highly used, vets recommend against this now . The reason is that any tranquilizer depresses the swallowing reflex, so if the animal throws up during the trip, he/she could die

This is what my vet recommended, and AA and continental do not allow sedated pets to board the plane. This is for any amount, no matter how minimal.

As an alternative, you can introduce the pet to the carrier weeks before the trip, so that it becomes familiar with it. I put Anya's food bowl on her carrier so that she could have a familiar smell too.

Saludos,

Caro

Hmmm...I haven't heard this. I'll give my vet a call this week and see what she says. Thanks for the info!

np you can read AA recommendations for travelling with pets here

Saludos,

Caro

[Mags 112]

You'll see nappy liners for carriers at the pet store, my vet adviced us against it because it has plastic at the bottom, and the animal can get anxious during the flight, chew on the plastic and can cause complications. She said to use generous amounts of newspaper in case of accidents instead.

Dramamine and Benadryl worked wonders for my dog, but CHECK WITH YOUR VET for dosages before "prescribing" these drugs. Don't give your pet Benadryl allergy either, just the normal kind.

I give both of these to my dog about an hour before the flight and he just dozes most of the flight. I've never taken him on a longer flight than 3 hours though, so I'm not sure how long you can keep pooch or kitty tranq'd, or how many dosages. Again, check with your vet. I'm speaking strictly for dogs, I don't know what the affect of these drugs is on cats.

Although highly used, vets recommend against this now . The reason is that any tranquilizer depresses the swallowing reflex, so if the animal throws up during the trip, he/she could die

This is what my vet recommended, and AA and continental do not allow sedated pets to board the plane. This is for any amount, no matter how minimal.

As an alternative, you can introduce the pet to the carrier weeks before the trip, so that it becomes familiar with it. I put Anya's food bowl on her carrier so that she could have a familiar smell too.

Saludos,

Caro

Absolutely. Apparently when the cabin air compresses (or decompresses, whatever!) it can have an affect on the animal (cat, dog, rabbit etc) and it can cause major complications and even death in some circumstances. Most airlines request that you don't tranquilise your animals any more.

My cats weren't and they coped fine. Once they realised they were in there for the duration they settled down and just slept. I stuck my fingers into their carriers now and again, with water on my fingers, just to keep them hydrated. I think they even had a lick of ice cream at one point.

I also lined their bags with newspaper (not plastic) and they didn't have any accidents. They do recommend that you don't feed or water for a few hours beforehand too.

Edited January 30, 2008 by Mags

[slim 1,514]

If you do purchase an extra seat, might be worth doing it in someone elses name. Have them check-in with you so the airline doesn't fill it with a stand-byer, and after checkin they can just leave the airport.

Have you thought about this from the "trained-eye" of the TSA screener? There's no way they're going to allow someone, a real person, to just ditch on boarding in favor of your dog or cat. Maybe seven or eight years ago they would've (not the TSA people who didn't exist, but the rent-a-cops that used to do that thankless job of hassling us before we got on the planes) but now they're going to think the person that ditched loaded your pet carier up with C-4 or even worse, a liquid explosive just prior to handing you that fluffy little ball of death.

An airline can't fill a seat you paid for unless they compensate you for it. You can't make up a human's name for a pet, have that human check in, and then have Fido fill the boarding pass. There's all kinds of security violations in that plan.

Then again, TSA having those "trained-eyes", they might just hustle you on through before they start strip-searching grandma in the wheelchair behind you.

Oh come on. The FAA's rules and regs are mostly nonsensical -- even the ones that are applied consistently. I mean, what harm could a cat in a carrier sitting on a bought and paid for seat bring to the plane that wouldn't be there under the seat? It's ridiculous.

What harm you ask?

If the plane were to hit some turbulence or something similar to that, then that pet carrier could fly about the cabin causing multiple injuries or even worse, the pet could escape! You think two-year-olds are bad, try catching a cat on a plane! (Or Snakes, we've all heard of that movie.)

In reality though, they're probably not permitted on the seats for sanitary reasons and to protect the airlines ability to screw you out of having your pooch ride in a seat that they could be overcharging a human for. (See above.)

[mox 298]

Have you thought about this from the "trained-eye" of the TSA screener? There's no way they're going to allow someone, a real person, to just ditch on boarding in favor of your dog or cat. Maybe seven or eight years ago they would've (not the TSA people who didn't exist, but the rent-a-cops that used to do that thankless job of hassling us before we got on the planes) but now they're going to think the person that ditched loaded your pet carier up with C-4 or even worse, a liquid explosive just prior to handing you that fluffy little ball of death.

An airline can't fill a seat you paid for unless they compensate you for it. You can't make up a human's name for a pet, have that human check in, and then have Fido fill the boarding pass. There's all kinds of security violations in that plan.

No, no, that's not what I'm saying.

Buy 2 tickets with two real names. You and real person show up and checkin. Real person does not show up at the boarding gate. Heck, the real person doesn't even need to go through the screening since you checkin before screening.

Since the person has already checked in, the seat next to you will remain empty. (Usually. If the flight is severely overbooked, once they've called your name on the overhead speaker enough times they might just go ahead and sell the seat anyway.)

From a TSA standpoint this isn't a problem. It happens all the time. Someone checks in for a flight, hits the airport bar, gets schnockered and misses their flight.

So now that you're on the airplane, there just happens to be an empty seat next to you. Funny how that worked out. When the plane is in the air, you take Fido/Fluffy's carrier from under your seat and sit them in the empty seat next to you (still inside the carrier).

I fully admit it's kinda going over your elbow to get to your as*hole, but if you're willing to pay for a seat for Fido/Fluffy, this is how you would do it.

[slim 1,514]

I'm trackin now.

You just keep the extra ticket in your pocket. No screening required. It's so simple it just may work!

[Okiebollweevil 0]

Thanks to everybody for their replies so far... And thanks for that PDF from New York State...

Are there any attorneys, law students, or just people well versed in legalese around that can decode this?

So speaketh NY Dept of Agriculture & Markets:

--

§ 65.5

Dogs or cats exempt from the health certificate requirement.

Dogs or cats passing through the State of New York to points beyond, dogs or cats

which are brought into the State of New York for temporary residence for purposes of

exhibition, and dogs or cats which enter the State of New York for delivery to

research institutions, dealers or other persons registered or licensed and regulated by

the United States Department of Agriculture pursuant to the provisions of U.S. Public

Law 89-544, as amended, are exempt from the provisions of this Part, provided that

such dogs or cats are at all times properly restrained and under the immediate control

of the owner or custodian; that such dogs or cats are accompanied with proof of

proper immunization against rabies: and that those dogs or cats entering the State of

New York pursuant to U.S. Public Law 89-544, as amended, remain subject to its

provisions..

Does this mean, since I'm not a NY resident, that I don't have to jump through the health certificate hoops (getting it, then getting it translated, then getting it notarized, mailing a copy to the Animal Industry director, etc) since my cat will obviously be living with me outside NY? Does landing at JFK and then hitching a ride with a friend to Massachusetts count as "passing through the State of NY to points beyond?" If so, do you think the customs agent will be so well versed about the law?

Think they'll get pissed if I have all the laws printed out in front of me just in case they give me a hard time?

And, while I'd love to leave the cat here in Russia, I just can't do it. Ira's family has some strange ideas regarding the care of cats (eg, the cats fend for themselves), and since the cat is declawed, I'm pretty confident that leaving him behind will be a death sentence. My cat, while Russian born, is most definitely a pampered American. He wouldn't have a clue how to hunt for food, defend himself, or any other skills he'd need being an outdoor cat. And nevermind the expense of feeding him, buying litter for him, taking him to the vet. I could never ask people who work twice more than I do, and earn 20 times less, to take on that kind of burden...

Besides all that, I'd miss the little guy sleeping on my lap while I work every day. Nope, that cat's got to come with me.

Z

My wife brought her cat from the Urals no problem. I think she flew into Atlanta and I met her there, long time ago and memory escapes. She flew Delta and used the Delta carrier, a soft sided affair, and once in the air, she slips the cat out of the carrier and puts it under a blanket on her lap. We have flown back to Russia with the cat and back, using the same technique every time. As to the New York requirements on pets, most states cannot interefere with any interstate movement whether cargo or people or impose local rules on transient cargo or people. That is why the statute cited makes exceptions for animals in transit via the state of New York. Not being a New York lawyer I cannot give you any more certainty than this, but having a copy of the statute you posted on VJ and the applicable federal regs will do no harm. Also, I remember we had to have an international health certificate from USDA to fly our cat overseas, and receive something similar once in Russia. They had a vet in the airport in Russia, a few rubles, a discussion about meeting American men online, the hazards of internet connections, a lunch in a Armenian restaurant and our paperwork was all done (if I remember correctly in the restaurant as we ate). Some concerns about your Russian cat diet, our cat is old, and my wife put her on Royal Canin while in Russia, and we fed her (that is the cat) the same for awhile once the cat arrived here. Now she eats some vet food from Petsmart which also has Royal Canin. Enjoy the visa ride it wil be frustrating but at the same time thrilling as you make headway.

[Satellite 1]

As to the New York requirements on pets, most states cannot interfere with any interstate movement whether cargo or people or impose local rules on transient cargo or people. That is why the statute cited makes exceptions for animals in transit via the state of New York. Not being a New York lawyer I cannot give you any more certainty than this, but having a copy of the statute you posted on VJ and the applicable federal regs will do no harm.

Nothing like making an undue burden on interstate commerce and supremacy clause (federal preemption) argument at the border with your cat! Bravo! Anyway, the individual states still have a way out if you recall:

Maine v. Taylor 477 U.S. 131 (1986) – the court held that a Maine statute prohibiting the import of minnows into Maine in order to preserve the health and integrity of their minnow population was valid, despite the fact that it was facially discriminative, because the state interest was a valid one and no alternate method of protecting such an interest was available. So if any state can make that argument about their pet populations you can have something to argue.