Divorce Decree - seal?

[mox 298]

Oops, I meant rebeccajo who is correct.

No problem, I'm always ready to take credit for someone else's ideas.

And I just want to say that I absolutely understand the strategy that I recommended carries some risk, and the OP should understand those risks too. I made that pretty clear in a followup post to my original advice. The OP needs to understand those risks before they make a decision based on that advice. To be 100% sure of not losing time and money, the OP should wait until they have a sealed decree in hand.

[rebeccajo 14]

I certainly cannot speak for other jurisdictions, but when I left the courtroom after my final divorce hearing, I had no copies of any kind of papers. Everything that was pertinent was still lying on the judges desk.

Okay, I just went back and read the OP, and see that I misunderstood the bit about the stamp. For some reason I read that it was a Judge's stamp (i.e., certified), but I see now that it was a stamp of his signature. (that's why I said it was the county's problem about the filing.) So I understand now why the paper they have in hand isn't "official."

So I amend my advice slightly to say that if the OP is going to submit early, they should feel 100% confident that the date of the decree is going to be pre-filing. Otherwise it's a waste of $455. Your (rebeccajo) advice to hold off until the actual decree is in hand is prudent and sound, and 100% guaranteed not to waste the application fee.

Mox, you're a good guy. I think it's important around here that we not try to be RIGHT, but that our advice is right to the readers. I hope I didn't come across as trying to be RIGHT, because it's better that we learn and not argue.

Here's what 'certified' means. It means something has been entered in the record. Only the Clerk/Recorder or whatever they are called in your county/municipality/parish has the legal authority to attest to the entry of a document. That's why the judges stamped siggy won't work. The judge is saying "OK I now pronounce you NOT husband and wife", but the Clerk is saying "here's proof that happened".

It's also noteworthy that rushing a petition in this instance could have some really bad consequences. Not being free to marry causes a denial. Which means when you refile, you have to explain the previous filing, etc. It's a pain in the butt to wait on your certified divorce decree - I know cause I did it. But it's really not a document you want to try and 'fudge'.

Edited January 14, 2008 by rebeccajo

[DerekJ 0]

.... In most jurisdictions, a divorce decree is not final until it is filed. It is usually up to the person who was granted the divorce to do this filing. Can't speak for other jurisdictions but in NY the filing place is the clerk of the county in which the divorce was granted. No one should take a chance on their visa application by ignoring this simple step. Having the divorce decree filed and available from the county clerk's office also has the added benefit of being able to receive a certified copy of the decree that would satisfy the USCIS.

Interesting that in NY such an important step would be left up to the involved parties.

Here the judge enters the final order. And the judges sign nothing at the hearing. They usually tend to paperwork later on that day privately in chambers.

Yeah, it is interesting. While I don't have stats, I'm sure many people fail to file and go merrily on their way thinking they are divorced. Doesn't surprise me that NY does it that way....that filing is an extra ~$20 in the counties' coffers.

[mox 298]

Mox, you're a good guy.

Oh stop it!

I think it's important around here that we not try to be RIGHT, but that our advice is right to the readers. I hope I didn't come across as trying to be RIGHT, because it's better that we learn and not argue.

I think we're on the same page.

[rebeccajo 14]

.... In most jurisdictions, a divorce decree is not final until it is filed. It is usually up to the person who was granted the divorce to do this filing. Can't speak for other jurisdictions but in NY the filing place is the clerk of the county in which the divorce was granted. No one should take a chance on their visa application by ignoring this simple step. Having the divorce decree filed and available from the county clerk's office also has the added benefit of being able to receive a certified copy of the decree that would satisfy the USCIS.

Interesting that in NY such an important step would be left up to the involved parties.

Here the judge enters the final order. And the judges sign nothing at the hearing. They usually tend to paperwork later on that day privately in chambers.

Yeah, it is interesting. While I don't have stats, I'm sure many people fail to file and go merrily on their way thinking they are divorced. Doesn't surprise me that NY does it that way....that filing is an extra ~$20 in the counties' coffers.

Oh, there's always a recording fee. Everywhere. So that shouldn't be the reason for that kind of policy. If you have representation, does the lawyer take the responsibility for filing the final order? They should, IMO.

The only way I can see it being the parties responsibility to file would be in a pro se action. By 'responsible' I mean - I can only see the policy making sense in that case. If that's their normal procedure, that's pretty - loose.

Edited January 14, 2008 by rebeccajo

[DerekJ 0]

.... In most jurisdictions, a divorce decree is not final until it is filed. It is usually up to the person who was granted the divorce to do this filing. Can't speak for other jurisdictions but in NY the filing place is the clerk of the county in which the divorce was granted. No one should take a chance on their visa application by ignoring this simple step. Having the divorce decree filed and available from the county clerk's office also has the added benefit of being able to receive a certified copy of the decree that would satisfy the USCIS.

Interesting that in NY such an important step would be left up to the involved parties.

Here the judge enters the final order. And the judges sign nothing at the hearing. They usually tend to paperwork later on that day privately in chambers.

Yeah, it is interesting. While I don't have stats, I'm sure many people fail to file and go merrily on their way thinking they are divorced. Doesn't surprise me that NY does it that way....that filing is an extra ~$20 in the counties' coffers.

Oh, there's always a recording fee. Everywhere. So that shouldn't be the reason for that kind of policy. If you have representation, does the lawyer take the responsibility for filing the final order? They should, IMO.

The only way I can see it being the parties responsibility to file would be in a pro se action. By 'responsible' I mean - I can only see the policy making sense in that case. If that's their normal procedure, that's pretty - loose.

Yes, if there is representation, then the prevailing party's attorney does the filing. My implied reason for the practice was just a bit of cynicism on my part. There are so many arcane practices in NY law that it is no wonder that we are one of the costliest states to live in/do business.

[j4k 0]

I have a question on the divorce decree, mine too is about 20 pages long. The first page reads "Divorce Decree in A.V.M." it is signed by the judge with a raised seal and also stamped certified and signed by the court prothonotary and dated. I'm wondering if this first page will do, or will I need to make copies of every page?

What's on the other pages? If it's stuff like the parenting plan and division of assets, then no, you don't need it. Most likely you only need that first page.

Yes, it's stuff about division of assets, etc, no children THANK GOD! so no parenting plan included! THANKS!