Angry Atheist win in Washington State

[Danno 1,228]

Thanks to "those Atheist" who have too much time on their hands, various religious groups in Washington St. will no longer be allowed to

place displays in the State CapitaL during the Christmas Season.

Apparently a few Atheists were certain that somehow a Menorah or nativity scene were in danger of "establishing" a state religion.... though they could not name which religion was in danger of being established.

Now I know a few Atheists and are the, "live and let live" types, they have no problem with the majority of the community having their different faiths reflected in the public square so I suspect it's just a small minority within Atheists who feel compelled to limit the holiday spirit in towns and cities all across the country.

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Updated November 27, 2009

Washington State Bans Holiday Displays Inside Capitol

FOXNews.com

The new rules -- set to take effect Dec. 1 -- came after repeated protests from The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Washington-based atheist group, over holiday décor inside Capitol campus buildings in Olympia.

Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire in a headshot, May 27, 2009 (AP)

The nativity crèche and the menorah are no longer welcome inside the Washington state Capitol after Gov. Chris Gregoire banned non-government displays, including religious ones, from inside the building.

The new rules -- set to take effect Dec. 1 -- came after repeated protests from The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Washington-based atheist group, over holiday décor inside Capitol campus buildings in Olympia.

The rules, which were officially signed into order by Washington's Department of General Administration on Oct. 30, still allow the annual state-sponsored holiday tree inside the Capitol rotunda. The new restrictions reportedly apply to all buildings and four parks managed by the general administration on the Capitol campus.

Last December, the atheist group erected a plaque on Capitol grounds that read: "There is no God and religion enslaves minds and hardens hearts" -- sparking a heated dispute over holiday-season displays inside Capitol buildings.

"The state government caved to a select few Scrooges or atheists, where 95 percent of U.S. citizens celebrate Christmas," said Ron Wesselius, a resident of Olympia, Wash., who has previously displayed his nativity scene inside the Capitol and who challenged the state in court over the new rules.

Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation, told the Associated Press in November she was pleased about the new rules but added that they don't go far enough.

"I don't think Nativity scenes belong on the outside of Capitols either," Gaylor said.

She promised to erect a large sign if a Nativity is allowed this year on the Capitol campus.

"We will match whatever they do," she said. "I don't think the public will be any happier about it on the outside than they would be on the inside. I encourage the state to avoid the entire debacle."

[Chica Yeyé 41]

aha, and?

[Heracles 417]

It's interesting that intolerance and hatred of those with opposing beliefs, is now acceptable. What other first world country does not allow the government to celebrate with their constituents? With their people. Is that what such groups call progress? But anyways, the lack of any religious symbol is technically endorsing atheism; which in itself is against the constitution. A belief in nothing is still a belief.

I just whish all religions got together and sued such disingenuous hateful organizations back. People won't say anything because it's religion. Had this been a racist group suing for freedom of speech, the same group would cry bigotry, ignorance, hatred yada yada yada.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Isn't government supposed to be a secular endeavor? when did it become the champion of whichever faith?

[slim 1,514]

Here in Cincinnati we have a cross from the Ku Klux Klan, a Menorah placed by the local Jewish alliance, we had some kind of multi-cultural something or other last year or the year before. Anyway, all this came about because the Klan wanted to put their cross up on the square and they weren't allowed. There was actually a federal injunction giving them the right to do it. Since then, it's kind of faded away but now pretty much anyone can place whatever they want up on the square as long as they get a permit.

[Heracles 417]

Isn't government supposed to be a secular endeavor? when did it become the champion of whichever faith?

The same time separation of church and state entered the constitution. Regrettably, as a foreigner I am still trying to find this clause. Whenever I search for it, only some letter seems to come up with that concept.

Anyone fluent in English would realize what the clause in the Constitution actually means. That is, no preference to one denomination; as was the status quo with the church of England in the UK.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I honestly do not see why this is news. At all.

[Aubrey 10]

Separation of church and state, please. Is it not enough that there's still "In God We Trust" on our bills and "Under God" added to our pledge of allegiance?

Not all atheists are hateful and have "too much time on their hands." I'm very tolerant of all beliefs and I'm a very happy atheist. Why should Christianity get to be above any other religion in a country with many beliefs? Should we start to allow all religions to put up displays? That's what your church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship is for. Mixing religious symbols with the state is asking for displays of intolerance. I think that the Founders realized that given the nature of so many immigrants to our country -- banished and unwanted in their own countries due to religious intolerance. Wise men beyond their years, I say.

[Heracles 417]

I honestly do not see why this is news. At all.

It should not be news. Christmas is once a year and the millions of Americans who believe in it should have the right to celebrate it. That is what tolerance, diversity, and living in a community is all about.

Unfortunately certain Americans don't seem to get this and prefer to rely on technical loopholes in a 260+ year old document, to get their way. After all, its not as if this country and the pilgrims had a religious background. Aka precedence.

[slim 1,514]

The Founders wrote about a Creator and a generic God. There's nowhere in there anywhere where it says, "our Christian God."

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Isn't government supposed to be a secular endeavor? when did it become the champion of whichever faith?

The same time separation of church and state entered the constitution. Regrettably, as a foreigner I am still trying to find this clause. Whenever I search for it, only some letter seems to come up with that concept.

Anyone fluent in English would realize what the clause in the Constitution actually means. That is, no preference to one denomination; as was the status quo with the church of England in the UK.

I assume you are referring to the Establishment clause, which is also the basis for tax and other exemptions for faith based institutions so that they will not be burdened by government demands. How can a government not show a preference if it only displays the symbols of certain faiths at a particular time of the year when Christians celebrate Christmas? I haven't seen government building decked out for Ramadan lately, and that's ok. Christmas music in elevatorsfor two months is enough for me.

I honestly do not see why this is news. At all.

It should not be news. Christmas is once a year and the millions of Americans who believe in it should have the right to celebrate it. That is what tolerance, diversity, and living in a community is all about.

Unfortunately certain Americans don't seem to get this and prefer to rely on technical loopholes in a 260+ year old document, to get their way. After all, its not as if this country and the pilgrims had a religious background. Aka precedence.

Who's stopping them from celebrating it in their homes and churches, clubs and rented halls, like the rest of us celebrate our holy days? Does that require shoving it down everyone's throats?

Edited November 28, 2009 by Sofiyya

[Heracles 417]

The Founders wrote about a Creator and a generic God. There's nowhere in there anywhere where it says, "our Christian God."

What other God would there be? It was a given back then.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The Founders wrote about a Creator and a generic God. There's nowhere in there anywhere where it says, "our Christian God."

What other God would there be? It was a given back then.

Not really.

[slim 1,514]

How can a government not show a preference if it only displays the symbols of certain faiths at a particular time of the year when Christians celebrate Christmas? I haven't seen government building decked out for Ramadan lately, and that's ok. Christmas music in elevatorsfor two months is enough for me.

Often times there's not a preference shown, there's an application for public display or request made by a certain group to display something in or at a public place. Provided there's equal opportunity to all to make this request, how does that favor anyone?

There is a huge difference between a private group being granted permission to display something in public and the government itself displaying something on their own accord.

(I know it kind of messes up the Atheists, but then again, if you have nothing to display, how can you claim you're not getting the same right to display something.... you have nothing to display!)

[Heracles 417]

I assume you are referring to the Establishment clause, which is also the basis for tax and other exemptions for faith based institutions so that they will not be burdened by government demands. How can a government not show a preference if it only displays the symbols of certain faiths at a particular time of the year when Christians celebrate Christmas? I haven't seen government building decked out for Ramadan lately, and that's ok. Christmas music in elevatorsfor two months is enough for me.

And for obvious reasons. The largest religion in this country is Christianity. Whenever I have gone to a Muslim nation, Islam is obviously in my face 24/7.

Who's stopping them from celebrating it in their homes and churches, clubs and rented halls, like the rest of us celebrate our holy days? Does that require shoving it down everyone's throats?

You or your ancestors must have missed the memo coming in. The same way you missed it in Aus, UK Europe etc.

Don't confuse our hospitality for stupidity. I am not afraid to fire up the oil vats again

The Founders wrote about a Creator and a generic God. There's nowhere in there anywhere where it says, "our Christian God."

What other God would there be? It was a given back then.

Not really.

Must have been Allah. Sorry but your ancestors obsession with the west, is only recent. So that rules him out. Hindu maybe. Buddha?

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!