Gilles

If he sends the money that she currently sends, he would have established dialog and good-will with her family. Thus he would have more control over that.

Precisely. If my wife puts into the family budget a sizable portion of her net income (at least 60 to 70 percent), then she will see that I will give to her family from time to time.

To OP its very simple, you don't know the very fact about how much your wife earns. You really think thats how marriages work? There are couple who do keep their finances separate but I bet almost all of them do know how much the other person is earning given its a marriage of mutual respect and both husband and wife are working towards the same goal.

I know approximately how much my wife earns. Not exactly, but close enough. I've asked her to show me her paystubs, but she refuses. And she knows how much I earn and what percentage of my income goes towards bills. My wife refuses to accept that I don't have a huge stash of cash lying around. She seems to think because I have a relatively high annual salary, that I must have a lot of money left over. But after deductions, 401K, taxes, and bills, there is very little left over. I've told her but she refuses to accept it.

Amigo, this is like a very bad Groundhog Day (movie) for 14 pages over several months. The best recent (and, incidentally) recurring advice that you have received came from Bob 4 Anna very recently:Read and heed, or continue to live in misery, kowtowing to a spoiled brat (a stronger, 5-letter "B" word applies more accurately) for the rest of your miserable, pu$$y-whipped days. Those of us who had similar relationships once upon a time still exult in the freedom and self-respect that washed over us as soon as we finally and rightfully dumped the brat (b****) and could hold our heads up again.

If I didn't love my wife or our marriage was only for immigration purposes, then what you're advising would be a no-brainer. I am naturally an easy going guy and am always eager to please, so as it is not part of my inherent nature to say "no" or to be tough on others, I am here to seek ideas of how to get this to work by being firm and not budging. As she is working part time (20-25 hrs per week) now and will be soon working full time, the parameters have changed and this is a new situation from what it was when I started the thread in December. Perhaps it deserves a different thread, as we're no longer talking about her unwillingness to work along with her demands for unreasonable amounts of money to be sent to her family. We're now talking about her unwillingness to contribute her income to the household budget.

I've tried the nice approach and that hasn't worked, so I've taken a stance of buying absolutely nothing when it comes to household supplies/groceries. And if she asks me to pick something up, I ask her to provide me with money. I am no longer budging.

It's clear to me she's toying with me to see if she can get away with this, but I am at the point where I can put aside my inherent nature to always be nice and giving (when it comes to money or goods). But I can't yet figure out how to get her to contribute her portion of her income to the budget.

I'm sorry to hear about that. Your wife has to realize that you are her husband and not her workhorse. If she wants to give more money to her family, then she must work for it. I also understand that you also want to win your wife's good side and not call you "stingy" but then again, you must choose to be firm on your stand and tell her that she has to take care of you guys FIRST so you can take care of the rest of her family later. Don't budge.

My husband and I have spoken about finances a few months after he left for the US. I was aware of some of his business probs and even suggested to him that I would help us by getting a job once i get to be in the US. I was surprised to hear that he wouldn't let me work! Well, he wanted me to work with him in his business (which was great) but I was thinking of another source of income aside from his company's. That way we have two sources of income in case something happens to the other. I guess for him, it was more of paranoia-- he knew that "other guys" would be there when I work outside--but I assured him of my faithfulness to him :-) But this is another story!

Eventually, he changed his mind and allowed me to get work outside when I get to the US... :-)

I hope your wife starts to realize that she has to work her butt off too, not just yours.

Since my wife is now working, I am reviewing some of the old posts in this thread. While it is very easy for me to not budge, I am at a complete loss as to how to get her to contribute a reasonable portion of her income to where it is most appropriately needed - that being to our household expenses and to save for our future. She isn't open to the idea of a joint bank account and when I attempt to get her to pick up the tab in certain areas, has made threats such as saying she will starve herself if I don't buy the groceries.

The ironic thing is she is repeatedly calling me cheap, yet she is the one who is being cheap.

You are correct, both money sent to family in the PH and the BB Boxes are from the household budget.

I would suggest you get her to read this thread, it contains great input not only from Kano husbands but also from a lot of Pinay wives.

Then maybe next time you have an outing without her if she throws a fit.

She is acting like a spoiled child and will continue to do so until it cost is greater than the benefit. My children never threw a fit in a restaurant because they knew that I would respond by simply paying the bill and leaving. If you want her behavior to change you need to make a decision and stick to it. Let her know just how far you are willing to go in the reverse direction and then don't expect things to change overnight. It might take her missing several fun outings or not getting gifts from you for several months before she realizes that you are serious. Honestly it might take more than that, like her moving out, for her to understand that you are serious.

If she loves you then she will give-up the childish behaviors. If she won't then she never really was what you thought.

I have some expenses (which I'm still paying on a monthly basis) that pre-date my marriage with my wife that don't really provide any benefit to her. Would it be reasonable in a budget arrangement for me to consider this part of my "fun" money? Or would it make more sense - not to mention fair - to simply drop these amounts off my income when figuring out the ratio of my income to her income?

My Asawa respects me and appreciates how well I provide for our family. She shares my priorities (Our household including the 3 kids first, then extended family both in the US or PH). She is the one tasked with managing our money and has done a fine job of it, in fact we are currently in the process of moving into a house almost twice the size of the old one due in part to her handling of our money.

She doesn't work yet as our son requires a lot of care having been born severely hard of hearing. She will be starting her education towards Nursing this fall when he enters full day preschool for Deaf or Hard of Hearing.

We send her mother between $50 - $100 per month as we can afford it. We plan to send 2 - 3 BB Boxes per year, the expense comes out of the household budget.

When she is able to work then she will contribute towards the household bills at a rate commiserate to how her income compares to mine. Until such a time my income covers all expenses and we both draw a monthly allowance for personal "fun" spending.

I am in complete agreement with you that the household bills should be paid commiserate to how her income compares to mine. I have suggested that we get a joint third account for paying household bills and draw out equal amounts for "fun" spending or discretionary cash. But she has rejected that. I am thinking of spelling out a plan & presenting it to my wife that is similar to yours. I gather the $50 to $100 per month that goes to her family comes not from your wife's "fun" money, but from the household budget before the fun money is taken out.

You have received a lot of great advice in this thread already but seem unable to act on any of it. I'm not trying to be harsh or anything but seriously if the marriage is causing you this much trouble then it is broken and you've got nothing to lose by walking away if she doesn't care enough about you to be more respectful and considerate. She's treating you like the Gravy Train that her family will ride for many years to come. At this point it's your fault for letting her do it.

This is a long thread and I'm sure there has been some good advice. I've tried to be tough with her, but when I do that, she just makes things difficult around the house or "ruins" any outing we go on that is meant to be for fun.

Well, if you won't put her on a plane back to the PH then tell her you want a divorce and she needs to move out of YOUR house ASAP so you can rent to a room mate (or two depending on the size of the house) as you have been financially ruined as a result of being married to a selfish child.

Seriously, if you won't stand-up for yourself then you deserve to be treated however she pleases.

Before taking things to such an extreme measure, perhaps I should ask how do you and others in here deal with your spouse if she makes unreasonable financial demands of you and/or doesn't contribute a reasonable portion of her income to the household expenses?

This is a long thread, with active OP participation.

Suggest to OP to get out to a church, talk with a minister, about all this stuff.

Just you. Go.

First post was 15 December 2009 and you still not have a working resolution - all has been reactionary.

Have you had a chance to review this ? --> http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/228838-my-beautiful-wife-is-very-irresponsible/page__st__75__p__3498431#entry3498431

IMO - tis the definitive 'game plan' for not only financial planning, but tough love on the family, as well.

Darnell,

Very interesting post and not something I am unfamiliar with.

The wife is now working and is sending perhaps 50% of her income to her family in the Philippines. She won't tell me exactly how much, but I suspect it's about 50% of what she's making. In part because she hasn't helped out with the finances and because she manipulated me into sending large amounts to her family, I am operating on a very tight budget. And now she is working, yet she continues to not help out with bills and insists that I "hate" her family because "I haven't sent them money" - even though I have. Additionally, she expects me to pay for certain expenses (sending goods to her family, recharging her calling card, her auto expenses) when she now has the money to take care of these things herself. She's doing things like sending things I gave her as Christmas or birthday gifts to her family and is expecting me to replace these items with cash I can't justify spending. We need my wife's income to help take care of our needs first and then if there is money left over, I have no problem giving some to her family - but not all of what is left over. I am at my wits end, as all I can tell the wife is that I have no money to spare. And then I have to listen to her spew lies by telling me I hate her family and that I am cheap.

I've tried to get her to agree to setting up a joint account for joint expenses, but she won't go for that.

How often over the last 13 pages has this comment or one like it been offered? OP, at this point, either be proactive or quit beefing.

I feel like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. How would you feel about sending someone you love back to the Philippines on a one way ticket?

If we got married strictly for immigration purposes and there were no emotionally feelings involved, then I agree that this would be a no-brainer.

As to the money, let her send most of it to her family - but don't give her any spending money, and don't contribute to the money sent either.

I've thought about doing this and asking her to simply contribute by paying for groceries and to pitch in a small amount for insurance. But she has shown she won't manage her money properly and she'll not only send it all, she will then come begging to me to ask for more. But more importantly, I am trying to show to her that we need to tend to our needs first. And if I let her do what she wants with her money instead of putting it away for the future, there won't be enough around when we need to do something like have children or pay for a trip to the Philippines.

It sounds like her getting a full-time job could improve your situation. She would have less time for spending money, and she could better learn the value of money.

From what she's shown, it will only make things worse. She'll send everything she makes to her family and will have nothing left over. Then when she wants something that she should be paying for (example, sending goods to her family), she'll ask me to pay.

Give her a one way ticket back to her parents' house in the Philippines. If she asks when she'll return reply, "When you learn to appreciate what you have here and want to act like an adult and partner."

I forgot to mention that she now has an offer for a full time job. Her income from that would really help us both out, but she's insisting that she keep it all for herself. The threat of her losing that job because she doesn't have transportation I am hoping will knock some sense into her. I just don't want to send her back to the Philippines.

She's been working part time for about three months, but has contributed very little to the household budget. She's bought a few small items on a couple of occasions - household supplies, groceries, etc. But probably 90% of the money she's earned, she's sent back to the Philippines. Now she wants me to pay for a couple Balikbayan (sp?) boxes to be shipped and I told her she should pay for that with her income. I ask her if she has any money from her job to pay for the shipment and she says no. So she calls me stingy.

She constantly complains because she doesn't have the kind of car my first wife had (my first wife worked full time from about the time we got married). Also, my financial situation was quite a bit different then. I had told her she would have to chip in for her portion of the auto insurance after she started working, but I let that slide. So after repeatedly asking her nicely to stop pestering me about my first wife, I told her that I would cut off her insurance if she did that again. Well, she did. But she said she would just drive anyway - without insurance. So I cut off the insurance and took the keys to the car. I hate having to treat her like a child, but if she behaves like one, I have no choice. Will this get her to go into counseling? I don't know. Will this wake her up that she needs to contribute to the budget? I don't know. If she throws a fit, which is what I expect, what should I do?

Sounds to me like she's very good at getting what she wants from you. She acts a fool, and you give in. Seems to me like she is the one training you.

I'm really not trying to be nasty but that's the way it looks from what you're posting.

I'm too much of a "nice guy", am too eager to please and want to maintain a peaceful environment. That's why I give in. I know I need to be more tough. Can you elaborate when you say, "She acts a fool"?

What do you mean by saying "but that didn't work?" Did you actually turn off her computer access? Is it still off? Or, did you threaten to turn it off and then back down when she wouldn't change?

I did turn it off for a couple days thinking she would come around. But instead of going to counseling with me, she made things unbelievably miserable around the house. As it was imperative that I restore a reasonable amount of peace and order, I restored her access to the computer.

I know she wants things to work and is proud to have me as a husband. She just doesn't know how to go about getting the things she wants. I try to teach her, but she doesn't learn and keeps making the same mistakes.

From everything I'm reading (which took a while I must say to read it all!) it appears that you have a "parent/child" relationship with your wife.

A rough analysis of your relationship with you wife (based strictly on your posts):

- your communication is basically non-existent

- your happiness means nothing to her

- you are expected to provide for her and she is to be a woman of leisure

- if she steps "out of line" you tell her mummy and daddy or find ways to punish her

I think you need to ask yourself what you want from a relationship.

- Do you want your wife to be your partner in life, mutual respect and love... or simply someone you know that lives with you and you may or may not have sex with occasionally?

- Do you want to respect your partner and have them respect you?

- Do you want to know that if you get ill and unable to work that your partner will do anything and everything to help out?

A true partnership is one of mutual respect and love. I know if my husband was unable to work I would work my butt off to make sure we were okay, and to make sure he didn't worry. I respect my husbands opinion and I would never do anything to disrespect him in public, or embarrass him, just as he wouldn't me. I look forward to him getting home from work. I feel bad that I can't work right now but he goes out of his way to make sure I'm happy and makes sure I don't stress too much about money. Personally I want my husband to be my best friend. I want to be happy to see him every day and him me.

Everything I read about your relationship seems, like I said, a parent/child relationship. She doesn't care what you have to say or what you think. She becomes moody and expects you to make her happy, no matter the cost. She doesn't understand and doesn't CARE to understand how your budget works (which says to me the relationship is irrelevant to her, she doesn't care HOW it works but you need to MAKE it work). Rather than feel you can talk to her rationally and explain things (like her behaviour) you're thinking about ways to punish her, or get her into trouble so she'll "step back into line".

I'm sorry but I do not think this relationship is based on love.. not from everything i've read and i truly believe that everyone deserves to be loved. I'm not sure if your wife cares about being loved so much as cares about money and it's a shame but there are people out there like that (in EVERY culture!) where money is more important but it appears that you (the OP) DO care about being loved and respected. I think it's time to really sit down and think if this relationship is for you.

As side note... remember you signed and submitted and I-864. If she does not return to the Philippines then you will be required to ensure she doesn't become dependant on the state (unless she works 40 quarters) and she can remove conditions herself if you divorce (and you still need to support her) and she can prove a valid relationship. Even divorce does not end this obligation. It sounds like she's the type where if you told her that you want to divorce her and here's her "settlement" and you'll pay for her flight home that she'll go. It will give her a chance to get re-married again and find another "rich American".

Best of luck.

She wants a relationship based on trust & respect and doesn't want us to part ways. And I feel the same. She simply has these backwards ideas that I should provide her with all of her spending money, that I should send lots of money to her family and that I should pay all the bills - while she gets to do whatever she pleases with her earnings. That type of attitude towards finances is unacceptable and disrespectful to me and I've let her know.

Update. She still doesn't understand - after my repeatedly telling her - that our needs come first and once our entire expenses have been covered, then and only then can we send money to her family. She has now been working part time for about two months (she's probably made about $500 per month) and hasn't contributed one dime to our household budget. And during that time, I've given her above $500 spending money, yet she has continuously called me cheap for not sending money to her family. I've told her she needs to contribute to the budget, but she feels that's my job and that all her money is hers to send back to her family. And to top that, she insists I should continue to give her spending money. I've suggested to her that if she doesn't have spending money that perhaps her employer hasn't been paying her, so I've hinted to her I'm going to call her employer to ensure she indeed has gotten paid. She gets furious when I say that, saying she'll quit her job if I call her employer. Since she isn't contributing to the budget, the only thing I can think of is to stop paying for groceries.

I tried to get her to go into counseling by saying I'd turn off her access to the computer unless she would go, but that didn't work.

If I'm understanding things correctly, you have very little to no communicative relationship with your wife beyond giving her money or restricting her spending. Seems like a pretty unhappy and rather untenable situation. I hope you figure things out.

There's actually quite a bit of communication and we have a lot of interests in common. In here I have chosen to highlight the issues surrounding the fact she's trying to drain us financially rather than the issues of things we have in common and/or the good times we have together.

I'm no expert but professional marriage counseling seems your only alternative short of divorce. Your situation sounds untenable if she ignores your concerns and refuses to discuss them like an adult.

She has refused to go to counseling to the point I have had to take away "privileges" until she goes. I'm trying to find a way to let her know I'm serious.

I am wondering what others who have had their wife come over on a K1 visa do with respect to checking/bank accounts. Do you have one joint account? Do you each have separate accounts?

I'm sorry to hear about that. Your wife has to realize that you are her husband and not her workhorse. If she wants to give more money to her family, then she must work for it.

She's unwilling to work. All she will do is fill out online applications and then doesn't follow up. I've gotten her names and phone numbers of contacts in the places she's applied to, but she thinks I should do the calling. I tell her it doesn't work that way. She says she'll look for work when she gets her driving license, but she refuses to take the bus anywhere.

I also understand that you also want to win your wife's good side and not call you "stingy" but then again, you must choose to be firm on your stand and tell her that she has to take care of you guys FIRST so you can take care of the rest of her family later. Don't budge.

Now she's pissed because I'm using some money to pay for a vacation for us. She wants us to not spend money on vacations and instead send it to her family or save it for children. I work hard and need a vacation from time to time. As the primary breadwinner, I think that's a legitimate need and it should take precedence over her sending the money to her family.

I hope your wife starts to realize that she has to work her butt off too, not just yours.

I hope so too.

This whole thing is completely absurd... did you agree to this "sending money to her family" before you got married??

No, I didn't agree to send any money to her family before we got married. She expects me to do it because she compares notes with her friends and has learned that their husbands send money back to their families in the Philippines.

Did you know about this aspect of their culture and what you were getting yourself into? Is she much younger than you?

Yes and Yes

What kind of a stupid arrangement is this and what in return did she offer to do for you for this "money being sent to her family" ??

What she offers is to "be happy" or to not get angry. In other words, she's emotionally blackmailing me so I'll agree to money being sent to her family.

Well now at least you know where her priorities lie... she came over because she's the familie's cash cow, and you're her ATM... it's the price you pay when you marry a young girl from a poor family... sad to say but sounds to me like some sort of form of prostitution...

Every man/woman relationship can be identified as a form of prostitution. Man is the provider and in exchange gets sex. Of all the relationships you know of, what percentage does the man do more of the providing than the woman? And of all the relationships you know of, what percentage does the man want sex more than the woman?

I don't get why guys/girls do this... marry someone in your league for pete's sake, then these types of ridiculous situations will not occur...

I think it's because people know they can let their guard down once they're in the door.

"Are you suggesting it's better to merely act without the preceding thread as opposed to offering a threat/promise and then acting?"

My comment was a general one. In all relationships the best situation (actually, I would think the normal situation) is that the two people make decisions as partners, and are open and honest with each other.

If something your partner is doing is causing you to be upset or aggrieved, and it's reasonable to ask them to stop (and this is all quite subjective), and they persist, then threatening in a 'if you do X then I'll do Y' tends to escalate issues rather than solve them. You want the person to stop what they are doing because they understand and accept that what they are doing is having a negative impact on your relationship, not because they are scared of the consequences.

I've gotten a mixed bag of responses here. Some say administering consequences works and others say it's best to "walk on eggshells" - essentially giving her what she wants to keep her behavior in line. But what if what she asks for to keep her behavior in line is way too unreasonable? e.g. She engages in unacceptable behavior, you ask her to stop, she gets angry with you for asking her to stop, so the next time, you just give her more spending money or send more money to her family. IMO, that will escalate the problem until you're broke. Some have said threatening to cut off support to her family or reducing the amount of discretionary cash I give her should fix the problem.

I've tried to have heart to heart discussions with her, but it becomes one-sided, thus accomplishing nothing. Then what is the best course of action if she refuses to accept her actions are having a negative impact on the relationship, she doesn't care about the consequences or she doesn't listen when I try to have a two way discussion about the issue?

Like punishment?

Idle threats show weakness, actions are effective. Whatever money you save by not feeding the bears will cost you 2X fixing the damages caused by a new level of unacceptable behaviour.

Some things just don't work out, and this show is over. Cut your losses and don't do it again.

I'm a little confused. I'm not making idle threats. I'm taking action. But she insists on retaliating - to which all I can do is either withhold or take other action. We agreed we want to have children, and agreed it would be a good idea for her to get some work experience before we start a family - but she's done practically nothing (despite lots of help from me) to find work.

What reason did your wife give you when you asked her why she would not stop her unacceptable behavior?

Good question. She either doesn't respond, complains or does something else unacceptable. I am considering contacting her family, as I've heard from some that the last thing a Filipina wants is for her family back home to know she's engaging in unacceptable behavior.

Agreed with this, and I strongly fear that you're in for it if & when she achieves access to your "family" financial accounts. Do you want to come home one day to learn that checks have bounced because she has wired copious amounts of money to the Philippines? Alternatively, do you want to have to log in to your bank accounts several times a day to make sure that she hasn't siphoned money? Remember that she may do this [1] if you have any argument of any sort, and [2] whenever she feels that the amount that you have sent is "insufficient" or "tardy." Remember that you need "joint" bank accounts for AOS.

There either needs to be a serious "come to Jesus" meeting, or you need to divorce her and send her back, whereupon she can support her family there full-time. Having experienced one awful marriage because of disagreements about money, I fear that you face a lifetime of around-the-clock misery unless the situation is changed or ended.

I've already established that there won't be joint bank accounts and there won't be until she shows she can be fiscally responsible. She got her AOS without joint accounts of any type.

Having to resort to threats in any relationship is troubling, and seems indicative of bigger issues.

And, you don't need a joint bank account for the AOS - it's just one thing that can help. You can also set up joint bank accounts to require joint signatures on certain transactions - wire transfers being one of them.

Are you suggesting it's better to merely act without the preceding thread as opposed to offering a threat/promise and then acting?