Gilles

Honestly, only you truly know your wife and we are just on the outside looking in threw a peephole which you made for us. Im sure there is much more to your situation, if not you seem smart enough to move on when there is no hope.

From what i have read this has been going on for quite some time and she seems to be getting better from what you are saying. She went from not willing to work to working part time and realizing that what she was making was not enough. she seems to be trying even if its at a snails pace ssometimes people are like that, scared of change. If she is just scared to make the next steps in life just help her.

If she wants to go to school, let her. if you have to pay, tell her you will pay for one class and over that she must pay for more. when she starts school and if it goes well she will realize that she needs to make more to get more classes.

Honest, sometimes being married to a woman who acts like a child but is willing to learn is better than being married to an adult who is stubborn and refuses to change.

Just help her to see, if she puffs up and gets a fit. leave her be till she calms down. from what i have read in your posts it seems that knows how to think she just needs time to do it and rationalize everything out on her own. Just present her with the problem and the solutions and let her do the rest.

Very well said. Other than using our reserves to pay for her school, I agree with everything you said. If I don't use our reserves to pay 100% of her schooling, she's going to throw a fit. So why should I pay only a small portion and leave the rest to her if she's still going to throw a fit?

gillies,by offering her schooling in exchange of giving you the control of her income ( which IS controlling ) youre just keeping the cycle going.at this point it seems like YOU are raising a child,you have to give something to receive something,thats not marriage,thats business.i know you want your marriage to work,but trust me buddy,it wont unless you take serious and correct steps.a slap on the wrist and keeping the whole deal going is not how it should be and what she needs

Are you suggesting I pay for her school out of our reserves without asking that she shape up her act? If I don't knock some sense into her, she'll continue to send 100% of her extra money to the Philippines.

his wife has a big fat history with money,and there is a possibility of her lying about sending money to relatives.plus my understanding of Filipino culture is you have to be supportive of your immediate family,not an entire tribe

I have no problem being generous with my wife's family from time to time. What I have a problem with is my wife being unaccountable and irresponsible when it comes to money and the fact that she fails to recognize that our needs must come first. This is why I need to reverse the mistake I made in allowing her to have her own bank account.

Gilles, I'm praying for you and your wife.

I hope she is not a purely evil manipulator as Bob suspects. I hope she will realize that she is in error, and that the good part of her will feel guilty for the way she is acting.

I don't know if I've read your other threads, but in this one you present evidence that can be seen two ways. She may be fighting conflicting emotions, including guilt, because she feels overwhelmingly obligated to help her family, but also knows she should be responsible with you, "her new family". It could also be what Bob says. I hope what he said about her behavior around other men is purely speculation extending from the financial infidelities, and isn't actually happening.

I have a very good sense of how well she covers her tracks and it's very clear to me she isn't looking around for other men. As Bob says, listen to what she does and not what she says. Yes, she'll joke about how she could get another man, but that is obviously a scare tactic she uses to help extort money out of our reserves. I think she does have conflicting emotions, but as long as I have the money, I find it difficult to say "no". In the last several months, I have changed and have a much easier time saying "no" - even in cases where we can justify the expense.

Does she believe in God? If she does, then a simple pair of questions can and should be applied to her actions. Ask her: Do you believe in God? (rhetorical to remind her) Does God approve of this? Explain the consequences of her actions as they pertain to you and her. You could include the comparison Bob made about her acting like the enemy, going behind your back and lying about it.

She goes to church and says she believes in God. She even goes to Bible study and participates in kids groups for her church. I've tried explaining to her that her behavior is in conflict with what the Bible says, and she replies with something like, "you don't even believe in God", as if my belief somehow makes the Bible apply less to her. If she's even a neophyte Christian, she should know that the beliefs of others have absolutely no impact on how much she should adhere to what the Bible says if she wants to be a good Christian. Then again, she has said because she is a Christian, she can engage in sinful behavior - lie to me, steal from me, treat me badly, etc. - and still be forgiven. From that, it seems to me that she looks at Christianity as a license to be bad.

I imagine the further away people are from enforcement of that new law, the more likely the hospitals will not release you if you don't pay. I know Bel's sister was held for several days when their baby was hospitalized. We helped, but we couldn't afford to pay the whole thing, and Bel does not want everyone relying on us for every need, just as Bob mentioned:And Adiiann mentioned:

I have a personal "weakness" in that if we can afford it, I'm tempted to help her family there with every thing they need. But this is not good for them. People need to support themselves, especially the siblings who are more than capable of supporting themselves. We've decided to help her mother, because most likely the siblings will stop supporting mom because there's a 'kano in the family now. But we are going to be careful about that, so that it's only for mom, and strongly encourage the younger siblings to get out on their own and live in their own means. Most people who are given a free ride through life become irresponsible and selfish people. Working for a living tends to teach a respectful attitude, and a healthy level of humility.

If you seek counseling BE CAREFUL!!! Not all counselors are equal, and not all counselors actually want to help marriages, even if they are using the Marriage Counselor title. Some female marriage counselors are actually stout anti-male feminists who want to carefully dismantle the marriages of the women who come to them for help. I imagine this is not common, but it definitely does happen. I personally know people who have had this happen to them. Imagine a marriage counselor telling the woman to do this: One night the husband is cooking dinner. When he's almost done she gathers the kids and goes to pick up some fast food. They bring it right back home and eat it at the kitchen table, all without her saying anything to him. She's been informed that if he gets angry about this, then he's an evil, terrible man and she should consider leaving him.

My wife won't go to counseling even if a gun were held to her head. We have an older Filipina friend who has some influence over my wife and we've both spoken with her about the situation. This woman isn't really a counselor, but after hearing my version of the events (she's heard my wife's side too) she tells me that I'm the man of the household. I read between the lines and what she's saying is that my decisions are the ones that we go by.

One of the things that you learn to do Gilles is to watch what people do instead of listening to what they say.

I was deficient that way. It was a personal weakness of mine. Too trusting. Naiive. Gullible.

It isn't worth anguishing over what she says and what it means. The only thing you can go by is what she does.

I can tell you what else she is doing: She's sending out feelers with other men. Dropping little hints, making allusions, turning on the charm and then turning it off. She's evaluating how they are responding. Lining up candidates. Eliminating others.

All of her actions - whether it is work or school & etc. have that component figured into it. I am not saying that she is actively pursuing an affair. What she is doing is keeping that option available in subtle ways, always covered in plausible deniability. By the looks of things, she will dump you if she can engineer the opportunity, rather than vice-versa.

You can talk about what you are going to do when the debt comes due, and how you are going to take full control of her income - but you can't plan with manipulators. You did not plan for her borrowing money in secret and against your will, and you can't plan for whatever she does next.

About the only thing you can count on is that like now, she will treat you as an enemy: do it behind your back and lie about it.

Like a lot of men, all she's got to do is charm you in bed and the most aggregious kinds of acts are forgotten. But what you have to remember is manipulative people are not capable of love and empathy. They can just as easily snuggle up to a rotting corpse as they can with you.

She's going to paint you in the eyes of other people in the manner that best suits her objectives. With potential lovers you are the manipulative, controlling, abusive ogre. They'll be set up to play the hero, rescuing her from your clutches. That is an irresistable role for a lot of men.

A person who demonstrates such brutal infidelity about money wouldn't think twice about other forms of infidelity. Your feelings are immaterial. People are objects to attain ends. The things that matter to her are cold calculations like where she is on permanent residency, what options she has available - not marriage vows.

When the next infidelity comes, and the next one after - I am not one to gloat with "I told you so". It's a sad thing.

So many beautiful, kind, and giving Filipinas out there pining away for a man. That's who I think about in these situations. The nice girls that would knock themselves out to take her place.

But Hey! I could be totally wrong and tomorrow she shows up with two of her scorching-hot younger friends and says "honey, I want to make this up to you..." Might be a game-changer in the offing, y'know?

Best of luck.

Well taken points about watching actions more than listening to words. But one area I disagree with you on is that they'll dump their American husband to get their way. We know dozens of American/Filipina couples in the community - many of whom are not even as well off financially as us. (perhaps that's because the wife is manipulating the husband into sending thousands of dollars every year to the Philippines) These women are young, often beautiful (compared to typical American women) and could easily snag a better looking man who made two or three times as much money as their husband does. But we don't see this happening even in a very small percent of the cases. My wife would not have gone to work if I continued to give her a reasonable amount of money per month and sent a bunch of money to her family on a periodic basis. Almost all of these other Filipina wives we know in our community have gone to work full time. So I know if we reach the limits of our finances and I no longer give in (or no longer give in independent of our finances), that she'll be motivated to get a higher paying job.

She's had opportunities to go to work full-time, but she rationalizes them away. She's filled out online applications and never followed up with the potential employer. She has friends who promised they'd get her a full-time job, but she never follows up and calls the friend back. There have been other similar instances. She rationalizes these opportunities away by saying that her Filipina friends lie about the opportunities or that the employers don't have openings. And in one instance, one of her friends got a full-time job somewhere where she had applied, but failed to follow up on or call the employer back. I've told her I'm aware of this and that I don't want us to invest in her schooling unless she can show that she's no longer going to rationalize away these opportunities.

Hi Giles!

I happened to pass by to your thread.... so while I am resting in front of my computer.... I would give my one-fourth cent.... LoL

About your situation in hospital bills, you wife can help them but probably to a certain extent only that your financial side will not suffer. My one-eighth cent on this, she probably not the only family member and shouldn't be paying all the bills. Her other relatives could contribute in paying hospital bills as hospital bills are really expensive. Like for instance, I have uncle-grandpa that doesn't have kids, so when he got hospitalized, I gave money for the bills but I only gave what I really can afford to give (which mean the extra money that we usually have to buy some non-necessities stuff). The rest of my family members contributed to help paid his bills.

This is just my mere observation and I don't intend to insult anybody nor hurt feelings by addressing this. Most Filipinas have this so-called "kayabangan" and sending money to their family implicate progress to their family. It will give their neighbors the notion that they are getting rich and they would be above them in terms of status in life (esp. if they came from a poor way of living). So no matter how much money they will send to their family in the Philippines, it will never be enough.

My one-eighth cent of your situation, did she marry you in order to get here and work to earn money for her family? or did she marry you in order to build a family of your own? and which reason weighs more?

You said you asked your wife about the future of your kids(if you already have), my husband asked me that too because we're comparing the way of living here and in the Philippines. I told him that we will save for our kids education and probably send them to Philippines for college if the quality of education is the same.

I am probably bias on my opinion or probably I am addressing some truth, I don't send money to my family in the Philippines like how most of the Filipinas regularly do because for me, helping is necessary but it always have boundaries. I have family here to take care of (though, just my husband and our little pup only for now). I have to think ahead of my family's future. I sound probably selfish, but come think of it, I didn't go in this foreign land to earn money for people that probably not thinking of my future but only what their present, I went here to build a family that I will call my own and have them until I could work no more.

Thanks for reading and responding. This line of yours caught my attention:

So no matter how much money they will send to their family in the Philippines, it will never be enough.

That being the case, you're greedy & stingy if you send them $1000 when you can only afford/justify $500 and you're greedy & stingy if you send them $0 when you can afford $500. So why not put the $500 in a retirement or baby fund to save for your own future?

I've heard that the families that receive money from their American based relatives don't use it wisely - they don't save it or they buy things that are considered luxuries by comparison. What I don't quite understand is how these Filipina families would pay for these things if they didn't have a relative in the USA who is sending them money. It's not like they would just fall down and die if they didn't get the money.

My wife said she wanted to marry me to have someone to love her and someone she could love in return. We had a discussion about sending money to her family prior to the time we committed to each other and she did indicate that we should come first. I try to remind her of that, but she just wines, saying her family needs the money.

Hi Gilles.

As you know I kept up with the thread on her manipulative behavior.

What she is doing now is called the "double bind" and it's a pretty cruel, cold calculating tactic of a manipulator.

She's borrowed the money and not told you about doing so, because of course you would not approve. The intention is coming to you later with the debt and saying that you either pay the debt or else the consequences of loss of face to the lender etc. are your fault.

While she won't tell me who she borrowed the money from, it's clear to me she borrowed it from a friend. When my wife says it's time to pay the friend back, I'll pick up the phone, call the friend and tell him/her that my wife will pay out of her paychecks.

A double bind is where you lose no matter what you do. If you don't pay the debt then there are bad consequences. If you pay the debt you have been blackmailed, which is a bad consequence too. You lose no matter what you do.

Manipulative people are experts at this tactic. The important thing for you to see is how savage this kind of behavior is. She knows exactly what she is doing. The secrecy is critical. Without the decepetion she cannot put you in the double bind.

There is a feeling of anguish and hopelessness with the double bind. An expert manipulator puts you on an endless conveyor belt of double binds in order to wear you down, break your will, and make you easier to dominate and control.

The very best of them also know that a good parasite does not kill its host. So when it looks like you are going to divorce them or do something really serious to threaten their gravy train then they know just how much false hope to instill in you by pretending to become reasonable, shedding tears, making false promises, etc.

The most clever manipulators will not actually tell you about the debt when it comes due. They will act like something is obviously wrong, cry, and force you to pry it out of them that they borrowed money and oh gosh they feel so horrible about it boo hoo hoo. They'll get their victim feeling so sorry for them that the victim is actually comforting their ruthless tormentor.

She wants to go to school and is inevitably going to want me to pay for her schooling. I haven't yet told her, but I won't do that unless she turns over complete control of her income to me. (with her income, she could save up enough for the first part of her schooling in less than six months) Although she's been paying some household bills and has been taking care of a good portion of the household expenses (primarily groceries), she hasn't been responsible with the remainder of her money and hasn't been accountable either. She hasn't saved up any money and has sent practically 100% of her excess to her family in the Philippines. She'll inevitably throw a fit when I tell her she's going to have to pay for her schooling herself, but once she settles down, she'll either have to give up the idea of schooling or turn over her entire income so I can manage it with our best interests in mind.

It is quite true that some hospitals will not let you out unless you pay. I told my wife that was preposterous once, but sure enough when she was admitted and I wanted to leave, a guy with a shotgun would not let us off the grounds until we paid in full.

I find that difficult to understand, as if it were true, the hospitals would be overrun with people who received treatment but couldn't pay their bill. It would essentially turn the hospital into a prison. Someone in this thread said they'll eventually let you go after 7-10 days, as they just cannot hold that many people in the hospital.

I had wanted to leave because we could not find the administrators to pay the bill, but if we stayed they would charge us for another day. Talk about blackmail! Good Lord was it a nightmare just paying them. We never went there again.

But this does not make it your obligation to pay. I recently had to say no to our family for that exact same thing - and it was not extended family. It was my wife's mother.

We have been sending money, but the rule is that's all they get. Medical expenses are not an emergency. Nor is a funeral, a wedding, or a typhoon. These are events to be expected in the course of life. If you are not saving for them then that means your plan was to come to us for them.

We do not agree to that plan. The answer is no.

I am so grateful for my wife. My God how wonderful life has been with her, standing together as a team. Communicating honestly and openly. Saying the difficult but truthful things to her family.

They have respected us for it, and things are just fine between us.

I've lived how you are too with a black-hearted manipulators that were capable of insufferable cruelty. I wouldn't wish that life on anyone.

I would leave her. You mentioned children. My God, you think it's bad now - just wait until you have children.

She has said she wants to have children and I've asked her to put her money in a baby fund instead of sending money to her family. She insists that it doesn't cost any extra money to have a baby. I've asked her if she had X extra dollars to either put in a baby fund or send to her family, what would she do with it and she refused to answer. I had to ask her some 5 or 6 times before she finally said she'd send half and put half in the baby fund. If she really wanted to evade the question and/or manipulate me, then why didn't she say, "I'd give you the money and let you decide"?

If she had agreed to counselling and was serious about admitting her destructive behavior and throwing a lot of effort into changing - that would be one thing. But that is not the situation.

I wish you well. My life sure is wonderful now, being free of manipulative people.

She has made progress in the last six months and I am hopeful that this recent uprising is the crossroads our relationship has to reach so that she gets her head in gear. I think she knows I'm far more comfortable saying "no" now then I was earlier.

Give your wife an allowance that she can spend or ship off if she likes. Tell her that she can spend the money on hair products, clothes, boots, or she can wear old clothes and not get her hair done, etc. Just do what you can to protect your finances.

She's going to want me to pay for her schooling and I won't do that unless she turns over complete control of her income to me. (with her income, she could save up enough for the first part of her schooling in less than six months) Although she's been paying some household bills and has been taking care of a good portion of the household expenses (primarily groceries), she hasn't been responsible with the remainder of her money and hasn't been accountable either. She hasn't saved up any money and has sent practically 100% of her excess to her family in the Philippines. She'll inevitably throw a fit when I tell her she's going to have to pay for her schooling herself, but once she settles down, she'll either have to give up the idea of schooling or turn over her entire income so I can manage it with our best interests in mind.

I was joking because I am 30 years older than her. It has been really rewarding to see what a great mother and companion she has become, along with being a mentor and example to her siblings.

If you try google with different keywords like "filipina scammer" or more generally "green card scam" and "visa fraud", etc. you are going to see stories of people who sent $10K and more to the Philippines, and their "fiance" was already married to a Filipino along with being engaged to a third person in Australia & etc. So yes, money scams are common. There are even cases of attempted murder and successful homicides.

Not exactly things to take comfort in. We can find examples of spousal abuse, incest, yadda yadda too. It's just best to avoid all of the above.

With the case you mentioned, this is over the line for unacceptable behavior. No telling what a person is capable of if they are repeatedly pulling scams like that.

Since the last post in this thread, my wife has gotten more understanding of me saying "no" when it comes to her financial demands. For the most part, she's been on good behavior and has been making increasing contributions to our household expenses. And she has been showing other signs that she understands that we come first and her family comes second. But recently she insisted on sending large sums of money to her family in the Philippines because one of her relatives was going to be held "hostage" in a hospital. Read more at http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/280345-sending-money-to-your-wifes-family-for-hospital-expenses/

As she's working and has been sending money regularly to her family, I wouldn't give her the money. So she wined and complained and ultimately borrowed the money from someone else. When I asked her where she got the money from, she refused to tell me.

Great post, hehe i cant say that Kant doesnt apply to my family because it does hehe. And thats why i feel sooo lucky to have my wife and her family and my kids will spend almost every summer of their lives in teh phils learning those same values my wife was raised on so they dont become spoiled american bratz

@ Gilles think it was YGR who said this first, but yeah you need counselling. My suggestion is find a philipina marriage counselor and send her there if you want to try to give your marriage a shot. if not, you will put yourself in a very early grave or she will eventually leave you.

Food for thought, i know a guy from california that married a young filipina and she came here and left him after a few years to be with someone else who had less issues than he. he wasnt perfect but she didnt believe int eh for better or worse and when and found better.

sucks, fix your problems now or be alone later

I just found out that she sent an additional amount to her family in the Philippines that was equivalent to half a month's income for her. And she failed to consult with me ahead of time. Now she wants to go to school so she can work full-time and make a higher hourly wage. I can't imagine why I shouldn't insist that she save up her money and pay the initial tuition fees herself.

the fact that compared to her family back home, she's a bit better off is not an excuse to give you all this stress. she needs to stop acting like everything needs to revolve around her. she is sooo lucky to have found a guy as patient and as nice as you...pero nilalapastangan ka nya my friend. and guys like you don't deserve to be treated the way your wife is treating you.

maybe you're better off not having a child yet as of this time...given your situation and your wife's selfish attitude. at least until your wife starts to get her act together. your wife needs to be taught a good hard lesson when it comes to finances and being married.

I've asked my wife if she had X dollars and it were extra money, would she prefer to put it away for having a child or send it to the Philippines. She repeatedly avoided the question, but after about the 10th time I asked it, she finally said she would send half to her family and save half for a baby fund.

She wants me to use our bill paying account to send money (we'll call it xxx dollars) to her family. It would put a strain on the budget by using that account (or any of our accounts) to send xxx dollars to her family. She has her own account which she uses to pay for groceries and personal expenses, but she said she had only about 25% of xxx dollars in the account. I asked her if she had xxx dollars in her account, would she send it to her family. She repeatedly (perhaps about 5 times) avoided the question. Then the following day, slightly over xxx dollars showed up in her account (it was obviously not a deposit from her part time job) and it immediately went out as a transfer to her family in the Philippines. I've asked her where the money came from and she completely avoids the question. I'm not very happy about this :-(

Danger Danger Will Robinson, the is the first of many tests on you releationship, and if you send them the money you will have failed the test and that will open up the flood gates for tons of future urgent requests. That in turn will put additional preasure on you releationship. By the way officially the law was changed so they are not allowed to hold a patent hostage for payment, but they will do it if you let them.

Good rules to follow:

1. Immediate family only

2. Trust but verify

3. Trust but Verify

4. Trust but verify

I've been tested many times and initially I dipped into our cash reserves a little more than what was comfortable. Since then I've cut back. You may read more at http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/232940-financial-support-to-my-wifes-family-in-the-philippines/

I've been in this situation. I'm the wife of the USC, just that it's my younger sister who has to be operated. And of course, family in PI. ask me a little help for the expense in the hospital but not to pay all the expense. Same with the hospital said that they will not discharged the patient with unsecured bill. So I told my problem to my husband and he did help. I'm glad that me and my husband is so transparent to each other, and we're able to talk everything even the most ackwards one. I don't know, I think it's already a Filipino mentality to ask someone, specially on money matters.

Part of the problem is that my wife is under the illusion that I'm "cheap", "stingy" and "hate her family". None of those are the case. As the one who is managing our finances, every important financial decision that doesn't involve each of our discretionary money needs to come through me. I make the decision to not send the money not out of hate or stinginess, but out of a concern for our own welfare. I try explaining this to my wife and she acts like I have some kind of hidden stash of tens of thousands of dollars.

if you yourself is low on funds....DO NOT SEND ANY MONEY. i understand your wife wants to (supposedly) help a relative, but is your wife even considering your financial situation?

My wife does not consider our financial situation. She acts as if I have a hidden stash of money which can be used at any time for any reason. She has had opportunities to work full time to earn more money, but she hasn't pursued any of them.

She wants to have children and I do too, but when I ask her if she would rather put money in a baby fund to help cover the added expenses of having a child or sending the money to her family in the Philippines, she refuses to give me an answer.

One, Gilles is tight with money right now as he admitted in his earlier post. Second, its a relative, not an immediate family. The relative could be his wife's cousin's cousin's counsin's cousin's in law. I'm not trying to be funny here. In the philippines, anyone could be a relative. Third, i read before that his wife has an attitude and this could be a way to get some money from him to send to her family.

Gilles could correct me if i'm wrong.

My wife says it's a sister in law and I believe her. But I don't know how much my wife's family is yanking her chain in an effort to test her to see how much money they can extract out of her.

I invite others in this discussion to read my previous threads in which I discuss my wife's efforts to extort money from our reserves.

My wife has asked me to send money to her family in the Philippines for medical expenses. She says one relative was a patient in the hospital. When my wife's relative was due to get released from the hospital, her family couldn't pay the bill, so the hospital wouldn't allow her to leave. My wife says that's normal in the Philippines - they keep you imprisoned in the hospital until you pay the medical bill. It doesn't make sense to me. If that were true, people who were out of money would flock to the hospital all the time and then live at the hospital. That would clog up the hospitals and those who needed medical care wouldn't be able to get any. Can anyone shed any light on this?

I know I'm not alone here, as I've been in contact with another American man whose Filipina wife repeatedly tries to extort money from him. She'll do things like register for a class and then after the class starts tell her husband that the school needs another $1,000. When he asks for a bill or statement from the school, she doesn't provide one and throws a fit. So he just doesn't give her the money.

That seems to be the general assumption. Are there studies that support it?

? You mean that some of the Filipinas you've met view white husbands as having unlimited/regenerating money?

Leeches.

Widen your circle. There are actually a lot of FIlipinas who are smart, independent, decent, can earn their own money, knows math, has integridad.

Several of my wife's Filipina friends here in the US hold down full time jobs. While I don't know in what manner they contribute to their household budget(s), I can't imagine all or even half of them hog the money for themselves. Perhaps I should reach out to them in the hope that they'll knock some sense into my wife. Every time a full time work opportunity arises for my wife, she finds some way to rationalize out of having to go to work.

You have to take a gamble when you marry, period. Otherwise, why would US have a high divorce rate in general.

Very good point. There are so many people who ask, "why go to the Philippines (or Russia or South America) to find a bride when you can find one here?". It's very easy to respond that the divorce rate among imported brides is probably lower than that among Americans who marry other Americans.

This is the impression I have gotten of my wife and some other Filipina wives: If you have five units of money to spend and you spend one unit, they think you still have five units left to spend.

'Discussion' meaning on the phone and online, yes? Did you actually watch her budget money and see how she spends it? Did you witness her managing her finances in a responsible manner?

To be honest, if I came from a poor family instead of a relatively well-off family in India and all I really cared about was getting my butt to the U.S. just so that I could get a job (or guilt my husband) into sending money for my family back home, I too would lie through my teeth about how I didn't give a ####### about fancy cars or Louis Vitton bags as well. Nobody ever says they are 'materialistic' or a 'gold digger.'

For example, $22,000 a year sounds like a lot of money when you come from a poor family in a Third World country. When you arrive here and realize that it's not the $ amount that matters, but rather, 'purchasing power' is what becomes really important, it's bit of an adjustment to make. Heck, I've been here for five years now, and I remember how shocked I was the first time I discovered that a set of four tires cost nearly $700.

You have to take a gamble when going with a foreign bride. You are right that the bright ones will withhold certain facts or embellish other facts to increase the likelihood that you'll choose them. The only ones you can weed out are those who blatantly manipulate you.

Here's a novel idea. Why not actually get to know your spouses and how they deal with things in life -- and finances, is usually number # 1 issue for folks -- before tying the knot? Instead of getting married to someone (usually after a short online courtship) from a completely different culture -- where there very might well be different expectations and ideals regarding money and family -- without discussing these issues prior to marriage?

My husband comes from a very well-off family but he is not spoilt. He understands the value of money and never wastes it or is extravagant with it, even though he has it at his disposal. That is something I respect about him. Neither of us have any 'princess issues' and we knew that about each other even before we got married.

I discussed finances with my wife long before she came to the US. She made it clear to me that she would not expect me to support her family. She described herself as a "simple person" who didn't need a lot of fancy material goods. And I made it clear to her that I was not very wealthy, nor did I portray myself in that manner when I went to visit her. We also had a discussion about the advantages & disadvantages of her either working, going to school or doing nothing when she arrives here in the US. She pretty much chose to do nothing, but has failed to understand that the disadvantages have affected her.

I didn't realize it was six months, Darnell- but you know Dr. Simon's book and the others talk about extremely intelligent, successful people who have been driven to complete psychological destruction by manipulators. So even if he does not deal with the manipulation effectively, someone else can be helped by reading this.

ca-babe - my heart goes out to you. It is extremely difficult emotionally to call your parents and siblings on their bad behavior. They use your kindness and compassion against you. It is especially dangerous in a culture where the children are taught to take care of their parents. While there may be some element of truth in that, it is not a proud heritage of Philippine culture to support drunken, lazy, abusive parents.

You mentioned keeping your sanity by refusing to speak with your family. Making you feel insane is a classic covert aggression tactic, and you did the right thing. You are also right that this is a behavior they learn in childhood, and unless you break the cycle yourself, you will in turn pass it on to your children.

They observe in childhood someone saying something but doing the exact opposite. They also see someone else struggling endlessly trying to reconcile the two completely opposite things. So for example the child learns that you can lie right to someone's face, slap them while saying "I Love You" and the victim will go for years anguishing over "If he loves me then why does he beat me...". They see the victim is emotionally disabled, too weak to stand up against the aggressor, lying in bed depressed & etc... and the aggressor is happy, carefree - and gets what they want.

It works and therefore it is copied. You are exactly right that shielding your child from emotionally manipulative people is important. We do not place children in the hands of uncles who are pedophiles just because they are family. Same with emotional abusers.

You can bet that Gilles' wife doesn't have a care in the world by comparison to his suffering endlessly over her behavior. She is capable of crocodile tears and phony "hurt", sure. If it works, she will just keep using that tactic. But these people lack morals and empathy.

"Culture" is not an automatic excuse for bad behavior. In some cultures there are long histories of slavery, cannibalism, child sexual abuse, lying, stealing, whacked-out superstition, etc. So do not automatically accept this idea of children supporting parents just because it is "culture".

You don't marry a Filipina so that you can impoverish yourself like them. Many cultures do not save for retirement. It is not because they are poor. That is the REASON they are poor. So the wrong-headed Filipina says "we beg and steal because we are poor". The right answer to them is no, you are poor because you beg and steal.

Thanks for the links and your feedback. I have been aware that my wife is a good manipulator. Had I given in to all her demands, we would be bankrupt by now. As she knows I'm "sending her back to the Philippines" if she doesn't shape up her act (good manipulators will sense threats are idle unless you either show that you've followed through on threats in the past or share the threat with someone who has influence over them - and I have done both), she has cleaned up her act. But we're not completely through the woods yet. She's said she wants to have children and I've told her that we can't afford children on my income alone. Yet she insists on keeping a large portion of her income (if and when she starts working full time) to send to her family.

You are so right that they have selective memory and twist around facts to suit their needs. I'll use logically sound responses or questions to her illogical stances and she turns quiet.

There are some in here who say it's a no-brainer - that I should send her back to the Philippines. Obviously if I didn't love her, that's what I would do. I'm trying to work things out, to at least give her a chance. But she keeps begging for money when it's obvious she's got plenty which she has saved from her job. She says if I got her a ticket to go back to the Philippines, she wouldn't go - she'd stay here. If we can't get things worked out, is there a way I can force her to go back to the Philippines? She hasn't yet had the conditions removed on her green card.

Anyone have a link to what the conditions are before the conditions on the green card get removed?

Gilles, I hope you can get this whole situation straightened out, but if she has not changed one iota after all these months, I don't like your chances. You have to call her bluff so she can see that she doesn't have all the control in the relationship.

The one question that kept coming to mind as I read this - do you know she is actually sending the money to her family? She sounds so selfish that she would actually keep it for herself, and just use the excuse that she needs it for her family.

I have seen the receipts. The money is going to her family. But she pesters me to give her money, saying she is out of money when - if I do some simple math - I know she's saved close to a thousand dollars from her job.

You are assuming her family is nagging her for money. From what we have heard, I am inclined to think that she may be sending/demanding so much to make herself look good in PI, not necessarily to help her family - that's just an end product.

Both are true. Her family is nagging her for money and she feels an obligation to help out.

Giles, you can try this to bring this situation under control. I think it should work:

1) Ask her how much she now sends her family each month.

2) Propose to her that YOU send exactly that amount of money to her family each month, no more, AND that her pay goes towards the bills. She will probably agree to that.

3) When she starts working full-time, do not allow her to send the extra money there. The extra money can go towards house things and things your wife wants. Just not her family.

That should help dispel her belief that you are cheap, and bring the amount that is sent to her family under control.

Lou - Very intriguing idea. I think at #2, she'll be extremely confused. However, it won't work because her income isn't enough to cover the bills. How about a slight variation: I offer to send out of my pocket all my net income to her family and she covers all the bills. When she sees that she can't pay the bills, then she'll have to come to her "family money" for help.