sandinista!

What now?


Well it's true, a good portion of them are. I give ####### to my sisters all the time for saying, I really need to get married so I don't have to work anymore. Idk if they are my sisters, I tell them to get off there #### and support themselves and quit whining.

Maybe that's where the assumption came from, your own words?

My husband's father takes care of his unmarried daughter, if at any point he was not able to, then my husband would. From here or there, or wherever he was. What he wouldn't do is talk about any of them derogatorily online, regardless of anything, for any reason ever. Or make reference to inflicting violence on any living being. Least of all any female, ever. One of many ways he differs...

Because if they don't want to work they don't have to. Whether he likes it or not. scampering off to the US while not providing for all of the women in your family, instead of just the ones you pick and choose is, well, shameful. As is talking ####### about them to a bunch of strangers, and MOST OF ALL making any references to inflicting violence on them. But whatever. Selective outrage. Sheesh.

MENA culture lesson: some people don't post photos out of ghayra reasoning. Mileage varies.

Some people on the board are more hand holdy touchy feely in their interactions here than others. Some are more acerbic. Honestly, when I was in major information seeking mode here, I learned more from the latter than the former. Mileage will vary. That's how Internet boards work. All kinds of personalities post on them, some you'll like more than others.
But even Peter Pan was relatively civil in this thread, which was like, whoa. It was weird how suddenly things got so derailed after really pretty tame commentary.

Nice.

Bumping your post because I thought you made some really great points that got overlooked in all the crazy.

MENA culture lesson: islamically, women are under no obligation to support themselves. If they're not married, it's their fathers and brothers job.

MENA culture lesson: some people don't post photos out of ghayra reasoning. Mileage varies.

I'm cool with charges of pseudo intellectualism coming from the likes of the ethnocentric bigot with the badass degree in international relations any day of the week.

Doh, there it is again. What's funny is that over the years, the very same people you've ranted and railed against in this thread have had countless discussions here about things to look out for in imported fiances and husbands, what signs or red flags could exist in MENA, things that look like American women are being majorly scammed or treated crappy or second rate by MENA people and allllll that, but without all of the ethno-religious baiting bs you flung out here from the very beginning. Whatever points you wanted to make, or experiences you wanted to share were irrevocably tainted by your own ####### you chose to spew all over your posts. Sorry you picked the wrong place for that particular kind of baiting, and had the misfortune of dumping it where some people don't swallow that brand of #######. You might find some better camaraderie on those Daniel Pipes forums. Best of luck!

I'd like a checklist of Arab vs western stuff, and a scoring guide.
If you ate tagine at least once in the last 5 days give yourself 2 points, if your husband has put on a jellaba 3 or more times in the last year give yourself 5 points, etc. It could be country specific, what with the OP having a masters in international relations it should be a cinch.
Under whose standards, and why do those standards count or mean anything?

yeah, my husband's putting in the last few hours of his 60 hour work week as i type this, and i can't help but think how much more effort he'd put into it if only i myself were moroccan too...
you're quite the anthropologist here!

Some people on the board are more hand holdy touchy feely in their interactions here than others. Some are more acerbic. Honestly, when I was in major information seeking mode here, I learned more from the latter than the former. Mileage will vary. That's how Internet boards work. All kinds of personalities post on them, some you'll like more than others.
But even Peter Pan was relatively civil in this thread, which was like, whoa. It was weird how suddenly things got so derailed after really pretty tame commentary.

Ding ding ding!
Now we've reached the "Alleged Moroccan guy talking ####### about Moroccan women" mark. These threads all follow the same trajectory.

Adding, I am actually a couple years older than my husband. (insert token phrase about gee, it's a good thing he's such an old soul and I'm not really all that grown up, and am lucky to look so much younger, etc etc)

The numbers jive. My kid will be nearly as old as the the OP's fiancé when I'm her age. How that's hateful is beyond me, it's just numbers. No one's been rude or hateful about it. On the other hand, you've been rude and snippy since you first chimed in here, as well as being completely off point.Non MENA people can study MENA norms, cultures, and standards until the cows come home. What ultimately matters in the situation of an American woman who is significantly older than her fiancé, with a significantly larger amount of adult life experiences is what that man's life experiences are and his relationship skills and abilities to relate to a wife who is at a completely different place in life, with those life experiences formed in a completely different place from where the guy is coming from. If he doesn't have the actual experience, as is common in MENA, does he at least seem promising? Squawking at Futureberberwife, like it's anthropology pop quiz time, doesn't have anything to do with what she was asking. Yea, north African norms are way different from north American. Everyone's clear on that. What matters, and what I think Futureberberwife was getting at, is how does the OP plan on dealing and adjusting to that? Can she? Will he contribute and try equally as hard? That'll be up to them. Hopefully it works. Lots of people have tried, and some have succeeded. Lots haven't. But anything less than Pollyanna is like hateful, blah blah blah.

Lol @ the persecutory complexes here. Good grief. You realize a lot of the same people who
supposedly hate alllll the MENA guys are the very same ones who adamantly speak up in defense of the very real good guys coming out of MENA when people post about relationships gone wrong, and how it must be alllll of MENA guys' fault and they're all bad when that happens. But whatever, MENA baddd.

Yes! I totally have nothing good to say about all the MENA guys, all the time. Without fail.
Yessss! It's the big meanies on VJ saying meanie stuff just to be jerks. No
basis at all! MENA consulates, especially in the cases of dramatically large age gaps where American women are older, are just randomly some of the most difficult, scrutinizing consulates in the entire world out of sheer coincidence. No basis at all!
Lol, the mods should babysit and open a thread about this. One would think if it's the undeniable, dominant, prevailing phenomenon where the majority of totally mismatched and culturally bizarre relationships where American women marry MENA guys young enough to be their kids were outdistancing everyone else in marriage longevity, the threads wouldn't need mod creation to come into existence. But ok. No one denies there's a few scattered long term age gap couples out there. But the odds are heavily stacked. That's all anyone is saying here.

Msheesha!! It's Groundhog Day!

Successful visa issuance isn't the same as a successful marriage. What others are suggesting is that the rate of still being married after visa issuance/green card/citizenship for these relationships is very low. If your only judge of success is getting a visa then yes most are.

I'm sorry but that above is ridiculous. 23 year old men from any country can be capable of being lazy and childish just the same as 23 year old men can be mature and responsible. It's not where they're from that matters, it's how they were raised, their own personality, and what they've been exposed to.

This thread meets all the marks. SuperMENAmen wise beyond their (young) ages, a healthy amount of "My Mohammad is totes different", and a drizzle of "American mens are all lousy slobs". I feel an American Queen lurking out there, just waiting for the right time to
make its entrance though.

Lol @ the persecutory complexes here. Good grief. You realize a lot of the same people who
supposedly hate alllll the MENA guys are the very same ones who adamantly speak up in defense of the very real good guys coming out of MENA when people post about relationships gone wrong, and how it must be alllll of MENA guys' fault and they're all bad when that happens. But whatever, MENA baddd.

Yes! I totally have nothing good to say about all the MENA guys, all the time. Without fail.
Yessss! It's the big meanies on VJ saying meanie stuff just to be jerks. No
basis at all! MENA consulates, especially in the cases of dramatically large age gaps where American women are older, are just randomly some of the most difficult, scrutinizing consulates in the entire world out of sheer coincidence. No basis at all!
Lol, the mods should babysit and open a thread about this. One would think if it's the undeniable, dominant, prevailing phenomenon where the majority of totally mismatched and culturally bizarre relationships where American women marry MENA guys young enough to be their kids were outdistancing everyone else in marriage longevity, the threads wouldn't need mod creation to come into existence. But ok. No one denies there's a few scattered long term age gap couples out there. But the odds are heavily stacked. That's all anyone is saying here.

There's a wide range of MENA male capabilities and norms among guys in their 20s living at home, just like any other group of guys. My husband came to the US knowing some basic cooking and cleaning and self sufficiency skills, and actively worked to learn more of these skills while we have been married. No women in his house wait on any males in his house hand and foot. But there's plenty of stories and experiences shared here in MENA over the years of utter incompetence in these areas, and the guys seeing absolutely nothing wrong with that incompetence, and not looking to make any changes or improvements there. Some relationships with American females are totally ok with that. Others it takes completely by surprise, and it becomes a big source of conflict. Reading experiences shared on this website since 2006, I've seen a lot of complaints and frustration expressed about it. Far too many to write off. And far too many to agree with general statements about how it's silly not to assume that guys in their 20s, MENA or not, are totally prepared to run households with women of any age. That's ridiculous.
Money has been a major source of conflict too, I've read countless complaints about MENA guys who once they start working in the US contribute absolutely zero to the financial needs in the house. This has to be discussed beforehand. There are no guarantees at all that a MENA guy in his 20s, or any other guy, is financially responsible, or knows how to or wants to contribute to household expenses, just because Madeinmorocco2 says they " understand the meaning of money and how to spend money wisely at a very young age as we start working and helping our families live." No. That is not even remotely a universal truth. MENA guys can be just as big of losers in this area as any other guys.
Comparing broken marriage rates in the US of same age couples to couples with age differences in Morocco is like trying to compare apples to bowling balls, Madeinmorocco2. Sociologically, there are HUGE differences, reasons, and consequences that make it impossible to compare side by side the way you're trying to do here. Pointless comparison really.