rayman26

Yes, that is why I am asking before I book a trip there-  if it is possible, in anybody else's experience, to participate in that remotely by offering a sample a lab here that could then be matched up to a sample given there by my son.  

Hello -

I recently had a son in Vietnam and am in the middle of the process for the K1 visa for my fiancé.  We are waiting to schedule the k1 interview until we have the CRBA done and we have his passport at least pending.  

We have an interview scheduled for the CRBA.  It is difficult for me to fly back and forth to Vietnam with my work schedule, as I've been there 3 times in the last year and last month for his birth.  I am hoping to complete the CRBA in my absence and then be there for the K1 appointment.   

I am assuming the US Consulate will require a DNA test for the CRBA, particularly if I am not present.  Do you know if I can participate in that test remotely by working with a lab here and then having those samples matched up?  About how long after the CRBA interview will he be approved?  I am trying to time this whole thing so we have her visa, his passport, and do it in as few trips back and forth as I can.

Any advice would be appreciated.    

Thank you!

1 hour ago, Going through said:

So what's your plan B if she refuses to sign a prenup?

 

It's a great question.   That is why I was seeing what anyone else had to say.  At the end of the day we all want to be together, and I can't see leaving a child behind over money.  So, to the extent that I'm exposed it will be worth it in the end (hopefully).   I don't really have a plan B.  Probably just hope for the best.  

It does seem there should be some opportunity to find a middle ground.  The absense of one I think may lead to people bailing out early.   I won't be doing that however.

Just now, Going through said:

Does she know yet that you are proposing a prenuptial agreement/trust?  You'd said earlier that a lot depended on her reaction..

I am going to bring it up after the baby is born because I want that to be unspoiled for either of us.  I have been letting her know subtly that certain things are only for my side of the family (our business), etc and she doesn't seem to be too worried about it. 

We are very happy together and the prenup has little to do with her being from another country.  However, it does raise a number of issues, including enforcement, etc. 

13 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

Except you had a USC spouse with a lawyer for a father. All the legal advice she needed between him and her own attorney. 

 

Try a foreign spouse who is being told you can't come to the US with our child unless you do this. And he is pretty much saying that. Go read his post. He wants to bring the child here away from her and find another way to bring her here. So it's sign or lose your child.

 

You can bet your last dollar her lawyer will use all this against the prenupt and if he is in California,  from what I've seen on  VJ the immigrant will get what they want in court. 

 

This is what we are trying to explain. 

If he wants a prenup it needs to be iron clad here, there and in both languages and with multiple attorneys in both countries. For it  to have any chance. 

 

Just to add, I definitely don't want to take her away from the baby at any point.  My assumption is that if we were to become divorced, she would continue to reside in the USA in housing that I pay for.  I've let my attorney know to be favorable in terms of support - not because I can't get away with less but because I would want to do what's right and make them both comfortable.  

11 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

Except you had a USC spouse with a lawyer for a father. All the legal advice she needed between him and her own attorney. 

 

Try a foreign spouse who is being told you can't come to the US with our child unless you do this. And he is pretty much saying that. Go read his post. He wants to bring the child here away from her and find another way to bring her here. So it's sign or lose your child.

 

You can bet your last dollar her lawyer will use all this against the prenupt and if he is in California,  from what I've seen on  VJ the immigrant will get what they want in court. 

 

This is what we are trying to explain. 

If he wants a prenup it needs to be iron clad here, there and in both languages and with multiple attorneys in both countries. For it  to have any chance. 

 

This was also the concern I had, you can tell he is addressing my concern by focusing on the encforcebility.  I truly don't want to be in a position where this is ever necessary, but it is prudent.  His response seems to be "calm down, it'll be fine as long as she get's her own counsel.  I am actually still not convinced of this, and that is partially why I've made the post in the first place to see what other real world stories people may have, as I may have to challenge my own attorney. 

1 minute ago, Going through said:

I am very much curious the question(s) you posed to your attorney to garner this type of response.  Off the cuff, the response reads as though you were asking if you can "get away with" having a prenup without your wife seeking legal counsel before signing it/hoped to encourage your wife to sign it without seeking legal counsel, for fear that any attorney may question it's fairness to her?

Absolutely not, I very much want her to get her own advice and will encourage her to do so in whatever form she feels is necessary.   I'm interested in it holding up if it ever had to, and so would be foolish for me to attempt to interrupt that process.  

1 hour ago, missileman said:

Huh?  Hiding assets?  not at all.....A trust is a perfectly legal way to privately allocate estate assets.

From my attorney:

Also, free to anybody who may find it useful.   I am simply posing on this board to get real world advice/anecdotes to get every piece of information I can. 

Hello Brian,

Your email addresses multiple issues. After review and discussion with other attorneys in the firm, a prenuptial agreement is the best fit for your situation. Creating an irrevocable trust (blind trust) with a termination date in order to hide your assets is more likely to harm you. You can set up a trust without disclosing your assets. If a divorce occurred and the trust somehow became common knowledge it would be very negative for you. The court would likely ignore the trust and decide that it is all community property. Also, if you were to do an irrevocable trust you can have no control over any of the properties that you rent or how the money is to be invested. If you retain any interest or control the court will ignore the trust and consider it  property that can be equitably split at divorce.  We can set a purpose or termination date but the trust can’t go against public policy. If you create a trust that can be seen as hiding assets from your spouse, it will go against public policy.

Also, any money or assets that was disbursed from the trust would be considered income, and therefore community property once you were married. If you used this income to pay off the debt of a commercial building, that building would be owned by you and your spouse. Therefore, there would not be any benefit of doing a trust and a prenuptial agreement.

We can set up a trust if that is what you want. A trust will be much more expensive than a prenuptial agreement, and in our opinion, less effective.  If you create an irrevocable trust (giving up all rights to the property) with a termination date set  We understand your concern of starting a marriage with your fiancé knowing that you don’t want her to have an effect on the other assets. This is something that you will need to explain to her, the same way that you explained it to us. Divorce is a worst case scenario and you have a legal right to declare your separate property before marriage.

Next, is the issue of your wife seeing an attorney about the agreement. One, she does not have to seek counsel but will have to sign off, stating that she did not feel like she needed to. Two, the court almost always will approve a prenuptial agreement if the spouse sought legal counsel. Three, her attorney will likely explain to her what the agreement means and what the overall effect would be on marriage and divorce. This is why the court will almost never void a prenuptial agreement where both parties had counsel. It is unlikely the counsel  would suggest not to sign an agreement or to bargain for more.

Finally, is the issue of your wife coming on a 90 day visa requiring marriage. The court could weigh this and decide that it made the prenuptial agreement void (highly unlikely if she gets counsel). With that said, as long as she signs the prenuptial agreement within a reasonable time it is fine. The longest the court has overturned in Washington is 3 days before the wedding (was sole reason). The court will take everything as a whole and decide. The farther out from the wedding, the better it will look for you. It would be best to get these documents to your fiancé as soon as possible and then have her review them with an attorney once she gets to the States.

To sum it up, there are many disadvantage to doing a trust and not as many benefits. The only negative (or positive) to a prenuptial agreement is that you will have to tell your future spouse about what you own. The assets will be more protected through a prenuptial agreement and less likely to be touched in the case of a divorce. Nothing is set in stone because all the factors can be weighed. If we do things appropriately the factors will weigh in your favor.

1 hour ago, Ontarkie said:

~~Related threads merged. Please do not start more than one thread for related questions.~~

Great - thank you - sorry, may have posted on this before, been doing a fair amount of research/posting.  Thank you for bringing it to my attention. 

11 minutes ago, bakphx1 said:

You should be talking to an attorney.  Since these a premarital assets you may have better options.  

 

But there’s no visa to bring an almost-spouse over.  You’d just have to enjoy your things and the knowledge she’ll never see them instead.

Yes, the idea was somehow to bring her over as a relative of our child.   

13 minutes ago, little immigrant said:

Does this mean she can't get a K1 visa if she doesn't sign the prenup? 

Not necessarily

8 minutes ago, junkmart said:

Perhaps one option would be to put those assets into a trust so that they wouldn't have to be probated with the remainder of your estate.

I'm told by my attorney that this would he akin to hiding assets and would cause me more harm than good.

Hello all,

Allow me to describe the situation before me.  I am engaged to a vietnamese woman who is currently pregnant with our child.   We have had a great relationship and the child is a welcome blessing for us.

I happen to have some assets and as we approach the reality of marriage and raising a child, there is the practical matter of understanding how those assets migrate through all possible outcomes.  Of course nobody wants a marriage to fail, but one has to be responsible about such things.

I've had a pre-nup drafted and am going to ask her to sign it when I visit Vietnam next month.  

If she objects to signing it, are there other ways to legally emmigrate both of them to the USA?  She very much wants to come here, and I very much want them both here.  However, as some of my assests are inherited they really are earmarked for my siblings (if I die soon) or would then be for my future child.  Under no scenario could they be made available to her extended family, unless our child chose to give it away after I'm gone.

I hope this doesn't sound heartless, and rest assured the instructions for the pre-nup provide for the comfort of all inolved, just not the transfer of my separate property. 

One idea is have the child, get the US passport, then petition as part of chain migration as the mother of the child?  I believe I've read the child must be 21 years old for that.  

I don't know of any good options but I am wanting her to come here but ber reaction to the prenup question will be a factor.   

2 minutes ago, adil-rafa said:

Read  and understand the terms of the I 864   the support agreement

 

Take out a life insurance policy to  give her an income if  something happens to you /you can't  expect  to marry a girl  and bring her here to the USA with no family and friends and not be prepared to care for her if something happens

you can prepare a prenup to protect the inheritance

 

but your post is so much about money and not love

you need to protect her as well as your kids if in the future you pass before her that is an obligation we all have when we marry

This is good advice, I will do so.

Yes, this is a post about money.  There are time for posts about love and a time for posts about fundamentals that we need to be aware of.  

Wow, you guys have been exceptionally helpful, and it almost no time!

I think the best thing to do is to get married here in the USA, at least that way I can have some visibility into everything and not get surprised because my pre-nup I used in Vietnam doesn't hold up, etc.  

Yes, a meeting with an estate attorney is necessary.  

Ok, thank you

I think the crux of the question is: will a US family court judge review the marriage from a Vietnamese ceremony, or just declare that we were never married in the USA so it is out of their jurisdiction to divide up assets?  

I can see ordering child support, etc... but if we are not married in the USA will they be able to grant them any property?

Hello all,

 
I am in a relationship with a woman in Vietnam, and have been for some time.   I visit her as often as I can and we would like to continue our relationship in the USA.   I am prepared to marry her and support her when she moves here.

This may be more of a legal question, and I appreciate that the best advice will be from a lawyer, but I thought I'd throw this out on this forum. 

I want to be sure that my assets go to my children in the event of my death or divorce.   I am wondering, if we choose to get married in Vietnam, and come in on a K3 visa, would we ever have to marry in the US?  If not, would I be pretty safe in terms of my estate here in the USA?   I very much want to take care of her with my monthly salary and am absolutely prepared to do that, however there is an inheritance that I have received and out of an abundance of caution, want to isolate that for my children when I die.  Obviously I am not planning on anything bad happening in our marriage, but a question that is worth asking.

Thank you very much for any feedback.