Shub

Should I need to take any additional documents

Quick addition on that note, make sure to do what they say on the oath letter itself -- the back of it has a short series of questions and they tell you not to answer them before the day of your oath. As unlikely as any of your answers are to change between now and the day of your interview, you never know, so fill it out after you get to the building while you're waiting!

Hi folks,

My Oath ceremony has been scheduled for tomorrow and I want to clarify few things..

• How long the ceremony will be
• Should I need to take any additional documents
• Will I be able to apply for US Passport immediately
• Should I need to update the status with SSN office immediately

Raj

1. I think that depends entirely on your office. I was scheduled at 11, it took until noon to process all the applicants into the room where the ceremony was to be held, and the ceremony itself took about another hour (there were 42 applicants). Other offices do it completely differently.

2. Only what they tell you to bring in the oath appointment letter. I took all the same stuff I took with me to the interview, just in case, but didn't need any of it.

3. Yes, immediately in the sense that you may do so as soon as you have your certificate of citizenship in hand (don't forget to sign it!). Your citizenship packet should include a blank application form for a US passport, and then you have to appear in person at a passport application acceptance facility, most of which only accept applicants on appointment, so you should look up such facilities in your area first, and if you want, set up an appointment in advance, but that may prove problematic in light of the fact that you don't know how long your oath formalities will take. You should go to the website of the Department of State and read everything you need to know about applying for a passport. It's much more straightforward than all the hoops you've had to go through with USCIS up to this point, but you should read up on it regardless

4. I think I read somewhere that you should wait 10 business days from your oath ceremony before doing anything with the SSA just for your updated status to propagate throughout whatever system. On the whole I don't believe there is any urgency. I haven't done it yet and I was sworn in on Feb 10th.

My wife and step-daughters received a letter from USCIS reminding them about the requirement to remove conditions I think about 6 months prior to expiration.

Is that so? Well good! I don't think they sent me a reminder, but that was a few years ago. Perhaps they do it now, or perhaps they're not consistent with it

Hello everyone I appreciate all the responses I have received and everyone that has taken the time to respond and even the research that was done. Just an update my grandmother and cousin did go to the Embassy yesterday , although it was a little late he was able to speak to an officer, he tried to explain the whole situation from beginning to end. The officer was taken aback from the whole situation, but gave him an appointment for today,told him to go back today, he is there as I'm typing. But from what the officer told him yesterday was that if everything that my cousin told him was true, he is a US CITIZEN but never formally claimed it or got the required paperwork to prove it. So at this point he told him he was able to receive a US Passport if everything that was told was accurate and today is the day that they would see what paperwork will be needed and what items to bring to process one. So ill be waiting to see what they tell him He said he would call as soon as he was home.

Please do update us! It's great that things are already moving along so fast.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be very interested to learn of the outcome, whatever it may be. Admittedly I hope that the outcome is as I have been arguing in this thread since yesterday, if only to selfishly vindicate my argument against the doomsayers and other negative Nancies, but I'll be equally interested to learn why he is not a US citizen, if such is the case.

Having trouble finding the source again. But technically they are not citizens of the USA until the report of birth abroad has been completed. They have the right to apply, but they do not have citizenship until its been determined they qualify, and the state department has sole authority to decide who qualifies and gets citizenship.

The CRBA does not confer or grant US citizenship, it merely confirms and documents the citizenship that the child has had all along.

That is exactly it. Think of the CRBA as a regular birth certificate issued inside the United States. It does not make you a citizen. The fact that you were born on US soil is what makes you a citizen. A birth certificate is simply an easy method of proving that you are a US citizen when required.

You do not need a sponsor when applying for naturalization. If the applicant was petitioned by a US citizen to immigrate to the US as a legal permanent resident, such US citizen would usually have signed an affidavit of support which is valid for up to 10 years after such applicant immigrates to the US, or such time that they become a US citizen themselves.

In other words, the existing affidavit of support is still valid and you need not provide another.

I do recommend that you read all the documentation pertaining to N-400, Application for Naturalization (http://www.uscis.gov/n-400) -- the form itself, its instructions, the document checklist, the eligibility worksheet, and M-476, A Guide to Naturalization, so you don't miss anything.

Actually they are not automatically a US citizen because a parent is a USC when born in the foreign country. They must go through the process of having the birth reported abroad to gain that citizenship. It is up to the state department to determine if they meet the standard of proof required to acquire US citizenship.

I refer you to INA 301(g), which does not line up with what you are saying!

Hi guys, I am compiling the additional documents to send with my form N-400. I am applying for citizenship based on marriage with USC for three years. Two years ago, I left the US for 5.5 months, returned for 10 days, then left for another 5.5 months. I have lived in the US since my return. During my two absences, I was registered (full time) in a PhD program in the US and was required to conduct temporary research in Europe. I have tax returns, enrollment records, pay stubs (from my university), bank accounts, credit cards, and an address in the US, etc. that I didn't break continuous residency and the trips were temporary in nature.

My question is: should I include any of these (other than the IRS returns) if these are trips technically under 6 months? The instructions to form N-400 don't require this type of proof for shorter trips, but my absences were rather close to the limit and successive.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Personally, I would have an explanation and that documentation in your bag, ready to present at the interview, but never submit something to USCIS that they didn't expressly request, and don't bring it up unless they do first. You simply do not need to justify absences under 6 months and the burden of proof rests on USCIS to show that you abandoned your permanent residence. It doesn't sound like you did anyway.

I was out of the US successively in the following pattern:

Left in June 2009, came back in October, stayed 5 days, left again, came back in December, stayed 2 weeks, left again in early January 2010, came back for 2 days in February because of a biometrics appointment (for removal of conditions on permanent residence), left again and came back for good in June 2010.

In other words, lengthy, successive absences, each less than 180 days in length.

At my interview, it wasn't even part of the conversation.

I'm not saying it could not come up in your interview though.

I cannot stress this enough, he is NOT a natural born USC. He was born onto USC parent/parents on the foreign soil. As it was mentioned several times throughout this thread, he held a LPR status for more than 12 years, so he is not a USC in any shape or form, period.

I think the argument here hinges entirely on the veracity of what katie1990 has been telling us. My view, subjective as it is, is that she has no reason to fabricate anything on this forum if she wants accurate feedback. In the end, if they choose to take the matter to the government, then the government will sort it out. Lying on this forum will get you nothing but bad advice, which is counter-productive to ascertaining what she needs to know. Hence my taking katie1990's posts at face value. Some people have raised valid points that may be holes in the story. Katie1990's family knows the whole story, and again, the government will sort it out if the family takes it up with them.

That being said, generally speaking, a child born abroad in 1992, in wedlock between a US citizen and a foreign spouse, is a natural born citizen.

http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-child-born-abroad.html

And pursuant to both paragraphs above, not assuming anything beyond what katie1990 posted, my view is that this person is a natural born US citizen. Why that never transpired earlier in his life is up to the family and the government to figure out. That's all I'm saying!

Pretty sure that there is a deadline to claim citizenship from a naturalized parent. Another requirement is to have good morals!

As far as I know, if you are a minor child legally admitted as a permanent resident, living in the legal custody of your parent, and that parent naturalizes, you are automatically a US citizen, there is nothing to claim. I'm not clear on how the good morals requirement applies when you are a minor child of a naturalized parent, but my understanding is that the person being discussed committed his crimes after turning 18, after his mother naturalized (he was 12 at the time), so he is a US citizen and his crimes do not qualify for denaturalization. Had he been over 18 when his mom naturalized, then the good moral character requirement would be relevant.

Let me educate you a little, it seems your imagination and assumption is way beyond your understanding on how the way uscis systems works.

I do not care for your patronizing, hostile attitude. I'm not a lawyer but having been the beneficiary of immigration benefits and as I like to understand what I'm getting myself into, I know how "importing" your relatives via form I-130 works, you're not teaching me anything.

I will add that your rant contains a lot more assumptions than I am making in this thread.

Base on the US law, it is very legal to jail and deport any nonborn US citizen or Green Card holder if they commit agravated felony such as, heavy robbery, murder.... that is unforgivable.

If you're going to "educate" me, get your facts right.

Of course it is legal to jail someone if they did something wrong regardless of their status as an LPR or USC. It is also legal to deport a green card holder. No one is disputing either scenario.

It is not however legal to deport a US citizen, whether they are natural born or naturalized, even for something like murder. In order to be "deportable", a US citizen would first have to go through denaturalization, and even something as serious as murder is not grounds for denaturalization. If you think I am wrong, then show me the law. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481 is my basis for telling you that the person in the thread at hand does not qualify.

You didn't need to send the tax stuff. However you said you sent copies of your I-551. Does that mean your actual green card, or just the stamp in your passport? The stamp is not acceptable.

Well, did you read where the poster says "the child got his green card at the age of 6years upon arriving to the US. If he had been a usc, he would have gotten passport instead of green card. Something is missing somewhere.

He can't be wrongfully deported if he's a usc. I think the child is in the system as a Green Card holder and not a usc

I read the thread from beginning to end and am taking what the poster is saying at face value. I see no reason for them to lie to us since, in the end, it is the government who will review the case according to the law, so there is nothing to be gained by lying to this forum.

So to your question, again, yes, I saw those comments, and am going on the assumption that errors were committed by his family out of plain ol' ignorance of how things work.

If he was a US citizen by birth, then he shouldn't have gotten a green card in the first place as he was already a citizen.

If he wasn't a citizen at birth, then he automatically became a citizen at age 12 when his mother became a citizen.

His being a member of a gang and serving a prison term is not grounds for denaturalization, and he should not have been deported to begin with, but having been deported also does not affect his status as a US citizen.

On the topic of wrongful deportation of US citizens -- it should not happen, but it does happen, and victims can sue the government for damages.

explain why

I believe it's already been discussed in detail throughout this thread, but anyway:

1) If he is a US citizen by virtue of his birth to a US citizen, he is what is called a "natural born" US citizen and that status cannot be revoked unilaterally (meaning the only way to lose the status is to do something, on purpose, with the intention of relinquishing US citizenship). Aside from the criminal background, he could be president, unlike naturalized citizens.

2) If #1 above does not apply and if he became a US citizen through his mother's naturalization before he turned 18, his status as a US citizen cannot be revoked except through denaturalization, which can only occur within specific circumstances, none of which apply here. In any case, the fact that he was deported in the first place was illegal and does not affect his status as a US citizen.

NO NO NO NO! HE'S NOT A USC...... EVEN THO IF HE WAS NATURALIZED AND HAD USC PASSPORT, EVERYTHING WOULD BE REVOKED UPON DEPORTATION. IF HE'S NOT A US BORN CITIZEN, THEN HE'S CITIZENSHIP CAN BE REVOKE AT ANYTIME

You are mistaken.

Thanks for all the replies. It's apparent we need to do this (N400) quickly.

One follow up question:

Suppose we go to Thailand for 5 years and she loses her green card status. Do we have to go through the whole green card nightmare to get her back in the US (peramanently)? Or is there some kind of easier reinstatement?

I know, hoping for an easy way out with the US Government is wishful thinking...

You would have to start the process from zero, although it would (or at least could) be different from when you first did it. The first time you did it was a K-1, but now that you are married, you can apply for an IR-1 visa which would automatically confer your wife the status of legal permanent resident in the US upon entering the country.

Thanks so much for your reply, really appreciate it. Would you mind sharing with me the questions your were asked at your interview.

I don't mind at all, in fact I posted an account of what happened at my interview in a thread of its own, which includes the questions they asked me:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/479361-my-interview-experience-at-the-philadelphia-field-office-february-2014/

Hello,

My wife is a 10 year green card holder, which she obtained through marriage to me almost 7 years ago. She received her green card in 2008. We spent the last 5 months in Thailand, and the immigration officer in Boston recommended we get a reentry permit next we're out of the US for so long. The immigration also mentioned it might be easier to go ahead and become a US citizen. What we didn't tell the immigration officer is that we are planning on moving to Thailand permanently in May. We always planned on moving to Thailand later in life, but a recent life event has caused us to accelerate our plans. Hence, I was caught off guard with the whole Permanent Resident not really being permanent if you don't stay in the States.

Looking at N400 timelines it could take 6 months to go through the whole process, and our house might already be sold!

My questions are this:

• Can she become a US citizen while living in Thailand?
• Can we start the process here, and complete it in Thailand?
• Is there a way to maintain permanent residence status while living in Thailand full-time?

Thank you,

David

1. No, you have to live in the US in order to apply for citizenship.

2. Maybe, but don't quote me on that as I've never looked into it. I would imagine that you would have to return to the US for the biometrics, interview and oath ceremony in any case. Once you become a citizen, your green card is taken away, so I don't know how traveling would work. Of course you can travel to Thailand without a US passport, but I'm not sure what the airport staff will do when you try to leave the country on a Thai passport, no green card and no valid I-94.

3. No, sorry.

For being out of the country for less than 6 months though, I feel like the CBP officer went a little overboard in telling you you should get a re-entry permit.

Travel under 6 months is within acceptable limits, travel over 6 months but less than a year can be problematic in some situations, and travel over one year requires a re-entry permit.

Husband receive the oath letter mailed out from National Benefits center but wife received orange oath letter mailed from Boston office at different dates. The oath date is the same for both husband and wife. Wife's letter doesn't have A# and but does have a T# number.

I know this is probably not an issue but just wanted to see if others had something similar happen to them? T number sounds like a temporary file may have been created for wife.

I don't have the letter anymore, but since it was given to me right after my interview, I do remember the IO affixing a sticker to it with what I believe was a number starting with a T followed by a string of digits. I don't know what its significance is but what you described sounds similar to what I experienced.

I don't know why you got separate and different letters, though, but I wouldn't worry about it.

I am eligible to file for my N-400 on September 1st. I have been a resident of MN for 5 years. I am planning on going on a vacation in August for a 6 weeks. What is the exact meaning of the 3 year requirement - should I be continously living in MN 3 months before filing N-400?

If I go on the vacation and come back, do I have to wait 3 months before filing the N-400 ?

Thank you,

Raghu

It simply means that if you move from MN to, say, NY, you have to wait until you've lived in NY for 3 months before you can apply for citizenship even if you meet all the basic requirements for citizenship. Go ahead and take your 6-week vacation and don't worry about it!

When she gets her green card, look at the date next to "resident since" on the card, then count three years from that date, then subtract 90 days -- that's the earliest day you can apply. Unfortunately it doesn't matter when she arrived in the US or when you got married. Since presumably she will get her green card before your second wedding anniversary, you will need to worry about applying for removal of conditions first, so make absolutely sure to remember to look into that and actually do it.

Applying for citizenship is strictly voluntary, but applying for removal of conditions is mandatory, and you will get no reminders from USCIS.

Thanks all for the answers .

I went over the link provided by Shub too.

Wow June 1st 2015 is not as close as I was thinking...

It's only a little over a year, it'll be gone faster 'n you think!

If applying based on 5 years of residence, her eligibility window starts after June 1st, 2015.

You can check if you meet all the basic requirements by looking at the eligibility worksheet at http://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (third link from the top).

I've been quite active on Immigration forums as well (for the past 10 years or so), and I have helped people with their paperwork as well. I never judge, but I am quite surprised on how this fight for proving U.S. Citizenship came about 12 years after being a LPR, only after having been deported for a criminal offense. It makes me wonder. That's all. I'm done here and I wish them good luck.

Yes, I see your point, it seems convenient when you put it like that, but on the flipside, perhaps it never occurred to them until everything was said and done.

Anyway, a lot of Americans don't even know that they are legally required to present evidence of US citizenship when entering the US. Most Americans don't really need to know that since most of them are not citizens of another country, but my point is that it isn't far-fetched that it would not occur to an American citizen abroad to file a CRBA for their child for immigration purposes.

Shub,

Hey, wait a minut here. You just stated in your previous post: "Note this is all a bit above my comfortable level of knowledge with immigration law (and I'm not a lawyer to begin with) so take that with a grain of salt"

Now you are an expert. I don't think averycates gave any legal advice, but you sure seem to be conflicted?

I'm not conflicted and I am no expert.

The simple fact is that I see this sort of post on immigration forums a lot (funnily enough, I was just telling someone else about it yesterday) and it pisses me off because people use it as a platform to proselytize, to pass judgment on people they know nothing about because they did something bad, to offer no help at all, and often do so in the face of the law, sometimes lying through their teeth to get their point across. I move that these people should just shut up, but they have the right to express their opinion, just as I have the right to point out that their attitude is obnoxious and unbecoming.

Here's how I see it.

Someone initially said: "your cousin is a criminal and should stay outside of the US where criminals belong and oh by the way he lost his US citizenship because <no reason provided>" -- that's a textbook BS post you see on immigration forums when someone did something bad and is asking about immigration. Useless, bitter, opinionated and just plain wrong.

I said: "oh well I'm not a lawyer so you should do further research, but hey, you said this and that, so I think he may be OK because A and B". At least I'm trying to be neutral and helpful. I may not like criminals but criminals have rights, that is the rule of law, and part of it is putting aside personal feelings. To me, that is the crux of the issue.

My only fault is perhaps jumping to conclusions too quickly about Avery Cates' post, but I've been around immigration forums (not just this one) for long enough to be reasonably confident in my ability to detect an embittered individual over one who simply doesn't know any better.

A child of a USC born abroad, is not automatically a USC.

"Parents of a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen or citizens should apply for a CRBA and/or a U.S. passport for the child as soon as possible. Failure to promptly document a child who meets the statutory requirements for acquiring U.S. citizenship at birth may cause problems for the parents and the child when attempting to establish the child’s U.S. citizenship and eligibility for the rights and benefits of U.S. citizenship, including entry into the United States. By law, U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States."[/size]

Since the guy was a Permanent Resident, that means, he his parents never applied for CRBA and he must have entered the U.S., later in life - perhaps after his 18th birthday. He is treated the same way as anyone else who becomes a Permanent Resident. I hate to say this, but he committed a felony and with that, he became a subject to deportation. I highly doubt he can ever come back to the U.S. For more info, please read:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html

You're speaking in absolutes when the piece of text you quoted says "Failure to promptly document a child who meets the statutory requirements for acquiring U.S. citizenship at birth may cause problems for the parents and the child when attempting to establish the child’s U.S. citizenship (snip)"

So yeah, it may be a problem, but that doesn't mean it can't be fixed.