Mosocw Medical Exam Controversy

[Buck and Natalia 0]

We did consider all of the options and the bad reports from MOM were of concern to us, but after seeing that things have improved we have decided to go there anyway, mostly because you get the results the same day. Anyway, we'll be doing it in just about a week. I'll be happy to post a report.

THANKS...... AN UPDATE FOLLOWING THE EXAM WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. -))))))))))))))))

[Chris Parker 11]

My SO has made it pretty clear that she's not abandoning Russia. She fully expects that we'll be heading back from time to time, and I fully expect to deliver on that promise. She is giving up a lot to come to me, and not because of what a western world might offer her, but because she wants to be with me. I have no doubt in my mind that she'd go back to Russia if I gave her cause, even if she had permanent residency by then. I'm perfectly fine with that, because it means she's starting a new life to be with me, not because of what she can gain from being in the West.

Good for now, it will probably change after she's adjusted to USA for maybe a year or so.

In general, the rule of thumb is once someone's lived in USA for long enough, the only place in Russia they would consider living in is Moscow or St. Petersburg.

[visaveteran1 33]

My SO has made it pretty clear that she's not abandoning Russia. She fully expects that we'll be heading back from time to time, and I fully expect to deliver on that promise. She is giving up a lot to come to me, and not because of what a western world might offer her, but because she wants to be with me. I have no doubt in my mind that she'd go back to Russia if I gave her cause, even if she had permanent residency by then. I'm perfectly fine with that, because it means she's starting a new life to be with me, not because of what she can gain from being in the West.

Good for now, it will probably change after she's adjusted to USA for maybe a year or so.

In general, the rule of thumb is once someone's lived in USA for long enough, the only place in Russia they would consider living in is Moscow or St. Petersburg.

Yes...agreed. Just to prove the point, there are many single, divorced or separated Russian women living in America. They chose to remain here even as their relationships failed. There is a respected "match-making" company called Encounters International. It is run by a Russian woman located in the Washington, DC area and has a large number of Russian women living in the USA and looking for American men...as well as women still living in Russia or the Ukraine in the database. Even with failed marriages to American men, the women want to stay in the USA. They could go home to Russia, but they don't.

I think sometimes American men want to overly romanticize the situation with the Russian ladies. The Russian women want into America...not Europe or Australia or Asia...but the USA. Who can blame them? So, we, the American men are the beneficiaries of this situation. Frankly, I think the concept of "love" means something very different to Russian women versus American women. The Russian women are pragmatic and looking for stability, comfort and opportunity. I have n o problem with that.

[Satellite 1]

The Russian women want into America...not Europe or Australia or Asia...but the USA. Who can blame them? So, we, the American men are the beneficiaries of this situation.

A lot of FSU women wind up with men in Europe, the UK, and Canada. Jump on to any Russian dating sites and you'll find lots of profiles for women who want a man in Germany, mostly due to the fact that German is one of the primary foreign languages taught in Russia.

I don't know what "a lot" means, but lets not forget that the MAJORITY of Russian women marry Russian men and the MAJORITY live in Russia. Therefore, the ones you find on these dating sites are the MINORITY. If you don't count the people living in the former Soviet Republics as Russians living outside of Russia the number is pretty small compared to the total population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_diaspora

[Buck and Natalia 0]

Frankly, I think the concept of "love" means something very different to Russian women versus American women. The Russian women are pragmatic and looking for stability, comfort and opportunity. I have n o problem with that.

I would argue that stability, comfort, and opportunity are why anybody gets married. For American women, this translates into more of a "partnership." For Russian women, it means that each partner takes on a more traditional role. (if you think this is going to get you out of housework, however, you've got another thing coming! )

As for the concept of "love" meaning something different...back in my Navy days, I attended a lecture given by a Soviet defector. She was trying to explain the Russian "character" to us, in order that we should know their mindset better. She pretty much summarized that while there are wide cultural differences, they are in the end just human beings. They find humor in the same things we do, and they carry the same set of emotions that we do. They are not somehow "wired" differently. With that in mind, love means something different to everyone. Finding someone who has a compatible view of "love" is key. So going into a marriage thinking that she has some mysterious alien ideas about love is also a sure-fire way of winding up extremely unhappy.

Yeah, I agree that people are emotionally wired pretty much the same. As I have gotten to know my fiancee and many of her female Russian friends, I find that they cover the full spectrum from very pragmatic to deeply romantic. It just depends on the woman. However, I also agree that the concept of marriage means something a little different to American women versus Russian women. American women tend to want an "equal partnership"....... whatever that means. Russian women tend to be very comfortable in more traditional female roles at home. However, their preference for a traditional role at home does not preclude them from being very accomplished in their chosen fields of work. I think Russian women are just a lot more comfortable being women than most of their female American counterparts. In contrast, I find that many American women (even accomplished women) are not very comfortable with themselves at home or at work. If they stay at home, a small part of them always feels a little guilty as if being a good wife and mother is "not enough." I have witnessed more than one dinner party where a woman has stated that she has decided to focus her energies at home and the other women have given little regard to her opinions after making this admission. The unspoken response seems to be, "So when did you have your lobotomy?" My heart goes out to such women because in this country it takes some moral courage on their part to endure some of the scorn that comes from their American "sisters" for being content to be a good wife and mother.

[slim 1,533]

I do think the window may be closing on this phenomena.

I believe that has more to do with another of the common man's traits, laziness, than with the fact that the women in Russian society are changing.

Ukraine requires no visa. And since Ukrainian and Russian women are pretty much in the same boat (a.k.a. non-Asian, non-Latina) when shopping for a wife, men will revert to the easiest form in most cases and that ends up being Ukrainian women over Russians. Russia is making it harder, not easier, to acquire a foreign bride from their country while Ukraine is taking active steps to facilitate the process. I don't have any numbers (Google, anyone? I'm too lazy (see above) to jump on Wikipedia and find numbers here) but it seems to me that the Russian "mail-order bride business" is starting to slow down and the Ukrainian end is filling the void quite nicely.

I could be off, so hit me with the numbers..... anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[Buck and Natalia 0]

I do think the window may be closing on this phenomena.

I believe that has more to do with another of the common man's traits, laziness, than with the fact that the women in Russian society are changing.

Ukraine requires no visa. And since Ukrainian and Russian women are pretty much in the same boat (a.k.a. non-Asian, non-Latina) when shopping for a wife, men will revert to the easiest form in most cases and that ends up being Ukrainian women over Russians. Russia is making it harder, not easier, to acquire a foreign bride from their country while Ukraine is taking active steps to facilitate the process. I don't have any numbers (Google, anyone? I'm too lazy (see above) to jump on Wikipedia and find numbers here) but it seems to me that the Russian "mail-order bride business" is starting to slow down and the Ukrainian end is filling the void quite nicely.

I could be off, so hit me with the numbers..... anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Slim - I found no stats on the question that you raised but during the course of my search I found an interesting survey completed by 144 husbands (to date) of Russian and Ukrainian brides. Here is the link for anyone that is interested:

http://rbsurvey.opendns.be/russianbrides/data/pie2007.pdf

Buck

[shikarnov 7]

Wow, interesting survey. I haven't completely digested it yet, but for the most part it seems to present a pretty (statistically) optimistic outlook. Also, most of the questions that could apply to an American couple seem to track pretty closely with what I would expect out of a normal USC-USC relationship.

I agree. That survey is going to take some time to think about. Is there a version available in spreadsheet format with the raw numbers? I'd love to be able to put this into a filtered analysis (maybe even a web app) system to quickly see what applies specifically to me (or others, in the case of a web app) based on criteria I input...

Z

[visaveteran1 33]

I think sometimes American men want to overly romanticize the situation with the Russian ladies.

I think sometimes American men want to overly analyze Russian women's motives. The truth likely lies somewhere in between.

The Russian women want into America...not Europe or Australia or Asia...but the USA. Who can blame them? So, we, the American men are the beneficiaries of this situation.

A lot of FSU women wind up with men in Europe, the UK, and Canada. Jump on to any Russian dating sites and you'll find lots of profiles for women who want a man in Germany, mostly due to the fact that German is one of the primary foreign languages taught in Russia.

Frankly, I think the concept of "love" means something very different to Russian women versus American women. The Russian women are pragmatic and looking for stability, comfort and opportunity. I have n o problem with that.

I would argue that stability, comfort, and opportunity are why anybody gets married. For American women, this translates into more of a "partnership." For Russian women, it means that each partner takes on a more traditional role. (if you think this is going to get you out of housework, however, you've got another thing coming! )

As for the concept of "love" meaning something different...back in my Navy days, I attended a lecture given by a Soviet defector. She was trying to explain the Russian "character" to us, in order that we should know their mindset better. She pretty much summarized that while there are wide cultural differences, they are in the end just human beings. They find humor in the same things we do, and they carry the same set of emotions that we do. They are not somehow "wired" differently. With that in mind, love means something different to everyone. Finding someone who has a compatible view of "love" is key. So going into a marriage thinking that she has some mysterious alien ideas about love is also a sure-fire way of winding up extremely unhappy.

Each of our truths is based on our experiences and whatever views and baggage we carry along as well. I have had 5 Russian girlfriends since 2002...two from Russia, one from Denmark (yes. unique), one from Kyrgyzstan and one from the USA. I have been to Russia 5 times and Kyrgyzstan two times). So, I speak from a sample of 5 women. Not a lot but probably more than the average Joe.

Russian women to my mind carry beauty, intelligence, common sense, femininity and power...an incredible combination, and so hard to find in the USA. And, even if they may happily accept traditional male-female roles, they do expect you to act like a man...be decisive, protective, honor the family, be strong of heart and be masculine...and show them some depth of male character. I think Russian women raise the bar pretty high for men but the rewards are very great.

The "wiring" may be the same but the history and culture are not. I think some of the "magic" between American men and Russian women flows from our differences, not our sameness.

[Buck and Natalia 0]

Russian women to my mind carry beauty, intelligence, common sense, femininity and power...an incredible combination, and so hard to find in the USA. And, even if they may happily accept traditional male-female roles, they do expect you to act like a man...be decisive, protective, honor the family, be strong of heart and be masculine...and show them some depth of male character. I think Russian women raise the bar pretty high for men but the rewards are very great.

Very well said..... and spoken from experience it appears.

[slim 1,533]

Each of our truths is based on our experiences and whatever views and baggage we carry along as well. I have had 5 Russian girlfriends since 2002...two from Russia, one from Denmark (yes. unique), one from Kyrgyzstan and one from the USA. I have been to Russia 5 times and Kyrgyzstan two times). So, I speak from a sample of 5 women. Not a lot but probably more than the average Joe.

Russian women to my mind carry beauty, intelligence, common sense, femininity and power...an incredible combination, and so hard to find in the USA. And, even if they may happily accept traditional male-female roles, they do expect you to act like a man...be decisive, protective, honor the family, be strong of heart and be masculine...and show them some depth of male character. I think Russian women raise the bar pretty high for men but the rewards are very great.

The "wiring" may be the same but the history and culture are not. I think some of the "magic" between American men and Russian women flows from our differences, not our sameness.

I too have had more than one (subject to monitoring so we'll keep the numbers fuzzy) Russian girlfriend and also lived with a Russian girl roommate for several months in Korea. The whole experience was somewhat of an "inside" peek into what was, in essence, a case study of the interactions between Russian women and American men. Very interesting stuff, to say the least.

That survey was interesting and obviously engineered by men. Are you still married? How much sex do (did) you get?

There were several times I had to chuckle. There is an interesting dynamic between the RW/AM union but when it comes right down to it, the things that make men and women happy are pretty much the same across the board.

[Buck and Natalia 0]

That survey was interesting and obviously engineered by men. Are you still married? How much sex do (did) you get?

There were several times I had to chuckle. There is an interesting dynamic between the RW/AM union but when it comes right down to it, the things that make men and women happy are pretty much the same across the board.

Ahem.... yesssss..... if the numbers are not inflated it seems that RW/AM couples spend a lot of time focusing on what could be politely referred to as "non-verbal" communication. I will need to begin an exercise program or something if I am going to keep up.

[Chris Parker 11]

Okay, for folks who have done the Medical Exam at AO Medsina, were you given a copy of the report contained in the sealed envelope, or could you request a copy? At least of the blood test results?

[Buck and Natalia 0]

Ahem.... yesssss..... if the numbers are not inflated it seems that RW/AM couples spend a lot of time focusing on what could be politely referred to as "non-verbal" communication. I will need to begin an exercise program or something if I am going to keep up.

LOL yes. What I thought was hysterical, and also makes me question the accuracy of the study, is that 40% of respondents had either sex or "light sexual activity" within an hour of meeting. Seriously? Within an hour? Just wow.

hahaha..... its possible.... its possible..... if "meeting" is defined as first physical meeting. Think about it. Spending several months together on the net....... the sexual tension building and building..... then the plane arrives for the first visit. The pent up energy is probably released with tsunami force......... LOL

[Chris Parker 11]

LOL yes. What I thought was hysterical, and also makes me question the accuracy of the study, is that 40% of respondents had either sex or "light sexual activity" within an hour of meeting. Seriously? Within an hour? Just wow.

Wouldn't just kissing upon arrival qualify as "light sexual activity"? If so, nothing surprising about this at all. Actually, I'd think it would be higher.

Edited December 21, 2007 by Chris Parker