trust issues

[peezey 0]

Ok I'll ask the question in another way. For the dudes that never ask their fiance's/wives for money, do they live at home?

That would be a good poll!

I never asked for money from Hicham, and he never asked for money from me. I wouldn't be too impressed if he asked for money on a regular basis from me.

I absolutely agree! I guess what is bothering me is that there are all these blanket statements about how "myman is a good man because he _________". If it were that easy to distinguish the good men from the bad ones, we wouldnt see so many women get duped around here.

I worry about the VJ member who is reading all this oversimplified (and sometimes misleading) posts and starts to doubt her own judgement because her fiance/husband doesnt conform to the accepted VJ MENA behavior and he really is a god guy.

And I worry about the VJ member who reads a post like this and gets the impression it is normal for a woman to send money to her husband. People have different values, and if a man asking his wife for money is a total deal breaker, a woman gets to have that opinion.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There's nothing in Islam against a man taking money from his wife if she freely gives it.

[doodlebug 3]

I sure hope no one means to, but posters sure seem to be implying in this thread that if there is an exchange of money that there must be something wrong with the man.

Sure, there are a lot of scammers out there and women are being duped. BUT sending money in and of itself does not signal a flawed relationship. All the boasting about how my hsbands doesnt take money - what does that prove?

My thoughts exactly. Sorry to be so crude but it's like a P!ssing contest amoung some women on here about who's husband spent the most on them and who's never took money when times were tough. That's not really the way I would measure a man. Some people's men say that a middle eastern man who would take money from a woman are less than a man, yet those same men are chatting with 16 year old girls on the internet..not exactly the type of person I want to take advice from.

The point of my question is that I know most of the men who live in the poorer countries, (Kuwait appears to have no citizens below poverty level according to the cia guideline, though I don't know how up to date that is), also live with their parents. Is it that big of an achievement to pay for thier fiance/wife when they really have no other responsibilities? Not imho.

Again, I think you have to judge each situation individually and look at ALL the facts. You can just broadsweep and say that if a mena man takes money from his wife then he is less than a man. What happens when he comes to the US and pays it all back and then some? Did he suddenly move up to a "real" man? I know men who pay for everything and they're cheatin' lyin' sob's. You have to look at the entire picture.

That's all I'm saying. Some may come on here and read this stuff and rethink their relationship because *gasp* they sent their husband about $200 one time when things were rough. All because some people on a message board say that they never sent money and their husbands/fiances would never take it. I know for a fact at least one of the women on this thread is lying. Why? To make others on here think you're all that 'cause your husband never took money from you? Honestly who gives a sh!t what other people think? It's YOUR relationship and quite frankly if you're old enough to have traveled and gotten married I *think* you're old enough to know when something smells fishy and when something is authentic. If not then oh well I guess you'll learn a lesson (hopefully) but please don't make a decision based on what some people here and on other boards say. People are not always what they make themselves out to be.

How come only the women who send money to their husbands are treating the ones who don't with such hostility??

You can tell yourself whatever you want, but the fact remains, it is totally, 100% agains the culture and Islam to take money from one's wife, and is grounds for divorce. You make your own decisions and rationalize how you choose and do with your money as you see fit. But for you to be pissy because someone else's husband refuses to take money from a woman (following his religion and culture) is outrageous.

I'm not pissy because someone else's husband refuses to take money from a woman. I'm pissy that some women who's husbands have displayed less than stellar behavior are mocking men who may receive money from women. The gist that i got in the beginning of this thread is that some women were jumping on this bandwagon and couldn't wait to post that their man would NEVER receive money from a woman and not only that but THEIR husbands think that men who do that are less than a man. Meanwhile these same husbands are doing things that imho make them MUCH less of a man. It's just the hipocrasy of it all that got me. Especially the one that outright lied about not giving to her husband when it's right here on vj that she did.

And you can say that *I* am the ones treating *them* with hostility but I'm sorry implying that men who may take a handout every so often from his wife is "less than a man" is quite a hostile statement imho and I'm not one to let a diss like that just go unanswered.

That's all I'm sayin'. My husband will be the first one to say that it's wrong of him to take money, but when you're in a situation where you are being ousted from your place and you have zippo funds to move and none of your friends have any cash on hand then I think if your wife offers $100 you should take it and forget about the culture thing for now, and it's not grounds for divorce in Islam to take it as I have shown above.

[peezey 0]

Italy and Spain are full of illegals from Morocco. Theycant get a work permit so they work in the streets selling ####### and CD's/ They live six to a room....kinda of reminds me of the illegals here.

He couldnt even use the Consulate there is he wanted to.

you fell for a street vendor??

Sheesh....

Anyway, I agree with Carolyn. No, I never sent any money to my husband before he came here, and he didn't ask. But if he'd needed help with something, I would have. We're partners in all things. I think paying someone's rent is a bit much, but if there is an emergency, of course you're going to help. And when we traveled together in his country before he came here, I paid for it. He made about $200 a month, so after helping his mother with the house expenses, food, etc, he really only had enough to pay for his prepaid cell phone and occasionally go out for a cup of coffee.

When you're together, you're together, and your finances are joined. His family is my family, and if they need something we're going to help. I wouldn't make a blanket statement saying that someone asking for money is a "red flag."

Not everyone believes this, and in fact, is not the way of Islam. The man is supposed to support his family and the woman chooses what to do with her money. This idea of comingled finances is a western one, and an American one, really.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I sure hope no one means to, but posters sure seem to be implying in this thread that if there is an exchange of money that there must be something wrong with the man.

Sure, there are a lot of scammers out there and women are being duped. BUT sending money in and of itself does not signal a flawed relationship. All the boasting about how my hsbands doesnt take money - what does that prove?

My thoughts exactly. Sorry to be so crude but it's like a P!ssing contest amoung some women on here about who's husband spent the most on them and who's never took money when times were tough. That's not really the way I would measure a man. Some people's men say that a middle eastern man who would take money from a woman are less than a man, yet those same men are chatting with 16 year old girls on the internet..not exactly the type of person I want to take advice from.

The point of my question is that I know most of the men who live in the poorer countries, (Kuwait appears to have no citizens below poverty level according to the cia guideline, though I don't know how up to date that is), also live with their parents. Is it that big of an achievement to pay for thier fiance/wife when they really have no other responsibilities? Not imho.

Again, I think you have to judge each situation individually and look at ALL the facts. You can just broadsweep and say that if a mena man takes money from his wife then he is less than a man. What happens when he comes to the US and pays it all back and then some? Did he suddenly move up to a "real" man? I know men who pay for everything and they're cheatin' lyin' sob's. You have to look at the entire picture.

That's all I'm saying. Some may come on here and read this stuff and rethink their relationship because *gasp* they sent their husband about $200 one time when things were rough. All because some people on a message board say that they never sent money and their husbands/fiances would never take it. I know for a fact at least one of the women on this thread is lying. Why? To make others on here think you're all that 'cause your husband never took money from you? Honestly who gives a sh!t what other people think? It's YOUR relationship and quite frankly if you're old enough to have traveled and gotten married I *think* you're old enough to know when something smells fishy and when something is authentic. If not then oh well I guess you'll learn a lesson (hopefully) but please don't make a decision based on what some people here and on other boards say. People are not always what they make themselves out to be.

How come only the women who send money to their husbands are treating the ones who don't with such hostility??

You can tell yourself whatever you want, but the fact remains, it is totally, 100% agains the culture and Islam to take money from one's wife, and is grounds for divorce. You make your own decisions and rationalize how you choose and do with your money as you see fit. But for you to be pissy because someone else's husband refuses to take money from a woman (following his religion and culture) is outrageous.

I'm not pissy because someone else's husband refuses to take money from a woman. I'm pissy that some women who's husbands have displayed less than stellar behavior are mocking men who may receive money from women. The gist that i got in the beginning of this thread is that some women were jumping on this bandwagon and couldn't wait to post that their man would NEVER receive money from a woman and not only that but THEIR husbands think that men who do that are less than a man. Meanwhile these same husbands are doing things that imho make them MUCH less of a man. It's just the hipocrasy of it all that got me. Especially the one that outright lied about not giving to her husband when it's right here on vj that she did.

And you can say that *I* am the ones treating *them* with hostility but I'm sorry implying that men who may take a handout every so often from his wife is "less than a man" is quite a hostile statement imho and I'm not one to let a diss like that just go unanswered.

That's all I'm sayin'. My husband will be the first one to say that it's wrong of him to take money, but when you're in a situation where you are being ousted from your place and you have zippo funds to move and none of your friends have any cash on hand then I think if your wife offers $100 you should take it and forget about the culture thing for now, and it's not grounds for divorce in Islam to take it as I have shown above.

My husband doesnt have the stuff that alot of these other girls husbands have and if I did not help with money when I go there, we could do absolutely nothing when I am there. He makes up for things in his constant care, help navigating very dangerous areas ( I was almost knifed in a neighborhood called DERB in oran) He is an amazing interesting person who grew up in the worst part of Oran and I love him so much.... I just want him here with me and I cant wait to go see him in Algeria in 4 weeks

[peezey 0]

The reality is people will tell themselves what ever they have to to make themselves feel o.k. with what they choose to do. You never know about someone else, really, until they break your trust. Just becasuse you give money or they ask does not mean anything. Either a person is honorable or they are not and you will find out in the end. Just do not be too naive.

This is exactly the point. I think a muslim man not only asking but accepting a woman's money has a long way to go to prove his credibility.

[JODO 2]

Peezey I tell you, you're a breath of fresh air

I would say ((((hugs))) but do you do hugs

Edited November 14, 2007 by JODO

[doodlebug 3]

Peezey I tell you, you're a breath of fresh air

[JODO 2]

Peezey I tell you, you're a breath of fresh air

Problem?

[doodlebug 3]

The reality is people will tell themselves what ever they have to to make themselves feel o.k. with what they choose to do. You never know about someone else, really, until they break your trust. Just becasuse you give money or they ask does not mean anything. Either a person is honorable or they are not and you will find out in the end. Just do not be too naive.

This is exactly the point. I think a muslim man not only asking but accepting a woman's money has a long way to go to prove his credibility.

So the Prophet Mohammed, pbuh, had a long way to go to prove his credibility??

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I sure hope no one means to, but posters sure seem to be implying in this thread that if there is an exchange of money that there must be something wrong with the man.

Sure, there are a lot of scammers out there and women are being duped. BUT sending money in and of itself does not signal a flawed relationship. All the boasting about how my hsbands doesnt take money - what does that prove?

My thoughts exactly. Sorry to be so crude but it's like a P!ssing contest amoung some women on here about who's husband spent the most on them and who's never took money when times were tough. That's not really the way I would measure a man. Some people's men say that a middle eastern man who would take money from a woman are less than a man, yet those same men are chatting with 16 year old girls on the internet..not exactly the type of person I want to take advice from.

The point of my question is that I know most of the men who live in the poorer countries, (Kuwait appears to have no citizens below poverty level according to the cia guideline, though I don't know how up to date that is), also live with their parents. Is it that big of an achievement to pay for thier fiance/wife when they really have no other responsibilities? Not imho.

Again, I think you have to judge each situation individually and look at ALL the facts. You can just broadsweep and say that if a mena man takes money from his wife then he is less than a man. What happens when he comes to the US and pays it all back and then some? Did he suddenly move up to a "real" man? I know men who pay for everything and they're cheatin' lyin' sob's. You have to look at the entire picture.

That's all I'm saying. Some may come on here and read this stuff and rethink their relationship because *gasp* they sent their husband about $200 one time when things were rough. All because some people on a message board say that they never sent money and their husbands/fiances would never take it. I know for a fact at least one of the women on this thread is lying. Why? To make others on here think you're all that 'cause your husband never took money from you? Honestly who gives a sh!t what other people think? It's YOUR relationship and quite frankly if you're old enough to have traveled and gotten married I *think* you're old enough to know when something smells fishy and when something is authentic. If not then oh well I guess you'll learn a lesson (hopefully) but please don't make a decision based on what some people here and on other boards say. People are not always what they make themselves out to be.

How come only the women who send money to their husbands are treating the ones who don't with such hostility??

You can tell yourself whatever you want, but the fact remains, it is totally, 100% agains the culture and Islam to take money from one's wife, and is grounds for divorce. You make your own decisions and rationalize how you choose and do with your money as you see fit. But for you to be pissy because someone else's husband refuses to take money from a woman (following his religion and culture) is outrageous.

I'm not pissy because someone else's husband refuses to take money from a woman. I'm pissy that some women who's husbands have displayed less than stellar behavior are mocking men who may receive money from women. The gist that i got in the beginning of this thread is that some women were jumping on this bandwagon and couldn't wait to post that their man would NEVER receive money from a woman and not only that but THEIR husbands think that men who do that are less than a man. Meanwhile these same husbands are doing things that imho make them MUCH less of a man. It's just the hipocrasy of it all that got me. Especially the one that outright lied about not giving to her husband when it's right here on vj that she did.

And you can say that *I* am the ones treating *them* with hostility but I'm sorry implying that men who may take a handout every so often from his wife is "less than a man" is quite a hostile statement imho and I'm not one to let a diss like that just go unanswered.

That's all I'm sayin'. My husband will be the first one to say that it's wrong of him to take money, but when you're in a situation where you are being ousted from your place and you have zippo funds to move and none of your friends have any cash on hand then I think if your wife offers $100 you should take it and forget about the culture thing for now, and it's not grounds for divorce in Islam to take it as I have shown above.

Doodle bug I am completely with you. My husband may not have money to offer me but just try to go to algeria... navigate the rough areas, avoid islamists and long beard people who may not dig your american passport, keep me safe... walahi . I have been to algeria 4 times and travelled in areas that no american citizens have been in in years.. This is due to the fact I have an Algerian husband and he is amazing and good to me... and if I wanna buy his family a sheep... or his cousins clothes.. thats my thing.. He has been an amazing resource and help to me and we are a team... I am not buying all this condescending #######.

[doodlebug 3]

Peezey I tell you, you're a breath of fresh air

Problem?

No just returning the eyeroll from the one you gave me on how to tell you're from Boston thread.

[peezey 0]

FYI, Ganja_Girl, Muslim women can and do give men money. Khadijah, the Prophet's first wife, was his employer; she married below her social status when she married him, and financed his mission with her own money. Not to mention, their large age gap, 15 years, for those who are also hung up on that. There is precedent for a lot of things we otherwise think are beneath us, and Allah has put no barrier between a woman helping a man financially, should she choose to do so.

No one said muslim women can't choose what to do with their money, but invoking Khadija time and again conveniently skips the fact that a muslim man is to take care of his family and if he doesn't, it is grounds for divorce.

[SaadBell 0]

You are right I am not your typically MENA girl, and don't want to be. I am who I am, grew up in the hood, if you want poor men we have them right here in good old America. I am not at all religious, don't really believe all of it, but I think everyone has the freedom to believe how they feel and not be with a scarlet letter on them. I see no compassion, if someone says something you just don't like you attack. What happen to freedom of speech, or would you like to amend that law too? So you don't like my signature, what is that about, you know anything about me, you grow up as a poor Puerto Rican girl in Compton. I doubt it very much, so maybe my experiences in life are a little different than yours. I have seen the street, cons all over the place. Will people use you, you better believe it. Don't really know the quran that well but my husband told me that man is suppose to support his wife. I don't really care what it says, if it makes him happy than let him. That is one thing he finds interesting about me, cause he has been to America before, and he never met a Puerto Rican with an attitude. Hit me, I will hit ya back, it won't hurt you cause I am really small girl, but I will go down trying. If you treat me right, I will give you the world, and that doesn't mean my paycheck. Of course I would help, but if Hesham ever called me and asked I know that he is in some serious trouble, since he makes more than me. This is not a good time for him to do that till I get paid, cause I have -8 right now in my checking account. Just everybody let it ride, who cares what others think, it is your life and only you are the one to live with your decisions. If we can't get along on a forum what chance is there that the world will ever get alone. I see too much real pain and tragedy everyday to worry about what some woman has to say about me on some forum.

The only alternative to coexistence is codestruction.

Jawaharlal Nehru

[JODO 2]

Peezey I tell you, you're a breath of fresh air

Problem?

No just returning the eyeroll from the one you gave me on how to tell you're from Boston thread.

You seem extra sensitive tonight,did someone strike a nerve? Like I really care anyway.

FYI, Ganja_Girl, Muslim women can and do give men money. Khadijah, the Prophet's first wife, was his employer; she married below her social status when she married him, and financed his mission with her own money. Not to mention, their large age gap, 15 years, for those who are also hung up on that. There is precedent for a lot of things we otherwise think are beneath us, and Allah has put no barrier between a woman helping a man financially, should she choose to do so.

No one said muslim women can't choose what to do with their money, but invoking Khadija time and again conveniently skips the fact that a muslim man is to take care of his family and if he doesn't, it is grounds for divorce.

And this is not just confined to Muslim men, my husband is a Copt and he would be horrified if I ever tried to give him money. Much less ask for it. Seems like some of these men finally had their ships come in