"The documents should cover, but not limited to, the following examples"

[Permanent Ban 0]

I-751 8/1/2006 said:

The documents should cover, but not limited to, the period from the date of your marriage to the filing of this

petition. Examples of such documents are:

I-751 7/30/2007 says:

"The documents should cover, but not limited to, the following examples:"

Both sets of text are followed by the same list of evidence. The last item in the list is the affidavits.

My conclusion: Affidavits are now required.

Anyone disagree?

[tweety 1]

I-751 8/1/2006 said:

The documents should cover, but not limited to, the period from the date of your marriage to the filing of this

petition. Examples of such documents are:

I-751 7/30/2007 says:

"The documents should cover, but not limited to, the following examples:"

Both sets of text are followed by the same list of evidence. The last item in the list is the affidavits.

My conclusion: Affidavits are now required.

Anyone disagree?

That's how I would read it as well. I didn't even know they've made such a drastic change to the form.

However, my best bet would be that this change wasn't intended, just someone messing with the form.... otherwise we might see a lot of RFE's in the future.

[Permanent Ban 0]

I-751 8/1/2006 said:

The documents should cover, but not limited to, the period from the date of your marriage to the filing of this

petition. Examples of such documents are:

I-751 7/30/2007 says:

"The documents should cover, but not limited to, the following examples:"

Both sets of text are followed by the same list of evidence. The last item in the list is the affidavits.

My conclusion: Affidavits are now required.

Anyone disagree?

That's how I would read it as well. I didn't even know they've made such a drastic change to the form.

However, my best bet would be that this change wasn't intended, just someone messing with the form.... otherwise we might see a lot of RFE's in the future.

Maybe it's just me, but aren't we seeing more RFE's on I-751s? I seem to be reading about more, don't recall this many before.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

The documents should cover, but not limited to, the period from the date of your marriage to the filing of this

petition. Examples of such documents are:

They are just examples...... that does not meen you have to send them it just mean it is an example of what you could send.....

Kez

[James 2]

The key word here is "should." Note it doesn't say "must." For example, birth certificates are listed as the first item, but how can you include them if you don't have kids (or "issue," as they say in the biz)?

Like all government agencies, USCIS has its own rules that it must follow. These instructions are directly derived from the Code of Federal Regulations -- 8 C.F.R. § 216.4(a)(5) to be exact -- and you'll note that in the regs it says that an I-751 "shall be accompanied by evidence that the marriage was not entered into for the purpose of evading the immigration laws of the United States," and that "uch evidence may include":

(i) Documentation showing joint ownership of property;

(ii) Lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence;

(iii) Documentation showing commingling of financial resources;

(iv) Birth certificates of children born to the marriage;

(v) Affidavits of third parties having knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship, or

(vi) Other documentation establishing that the marriage was not entered into in order to evade the immigration laws of the United States.

So while evidence is required, no one specific piece of the evidence listed is. But if you don't send close to everything you possibly could, you're likely to get an RFE. If we didn't have kids, we would have likely sent in affidavits because a lot of our financial resources are still in my name only (bank account, etc.).

And as I have bored people to tears with elsewhere, affidavits mean affidavits, not just a letter or even a notarized letter.

[Permanent Ban 0]

And as I have bored people to tears with elsewhere, affidavits mean affidavits, not just a letter or even a notarized letter.

And thank you for yet another monkey wrench

That was an informative and helpful reply - which is very much appreciated! Even if it doesn't exactly jive with what I had in mind (notarized letter)...

Thanks

The documents should cover, but not limited to, the period from the date of your marriage to the filing of this

petition. Examples of such documents are:

They are just examples...... that does not meen you have to send them it just mean it is an example of what you could send.....

Kez

That's the old language. Please read my initial post again.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

And as I have bored people to tears with elsewhere, affidavits mean affidavits, not just a letter or even a notarized letter.

And thank you for yet another monkey wrench

That was an informative and helpful reply - which is very much appreciated! Even if it doesn't exactly jive with what I had in mind (notarized letter)...

Thanks

The documents should cover, but not limited to, the period from the date of your marriage to the filing of this

petition. Examples of such documents are:

They are just examples...... that does not meen you have to send them it just mean it is an example of what you could send.....

Kez

That's the old language. Please read my initial post again.

I-751 7/30/2007 says:

"The documents should cover, but not limited to, the following examples:"

Both sets of text are followed by the same list of evidence. The last item in the list is the affidavits.

My conclusion: Affidavits are now required.

Anyone disagree?

Again they are just examples..... so no Affidavits are not now required..... they are just an example of the sorts of evidence you could send....

Kez

[James 2]

And as I have bored people to tears with elsewhere, affidavits mean affidavits, not just a letter or even a notarized letter.

And thank you for yet another monkey wrench

That was an informative and helpful reply - which is very much appreciated! Even if it doesn't exactly jive with what I had in mind (notarized letter)...

Thanks

It's not really that big a deal -- just put what the person would write in the letter in the affidavit instead. Look at the example affidavit I posted in the pinned thread. (You have to change "Customs" to "Citizenship" on the first line -- I spaced on the spelled out name of USCIS.) Write it up, have it notarized, and voila -- a sworn affidavit that, unlike all of the other letters and notarized letters ####### people talk about here, actually follows the I-751 instructions.

[Cassie 8]

When I put together my packet, I wanted to have a wide range of evidence from multiple sources. I included notarized letters as part of that. I am sure that if I listed everything that I sent in my packet, people here would denounce me for going overboard, but it matters not to me.

[James 2]

When I put together my packet, I wanted to have a wide range of evidence from multiple sources. I included notarized letters as part of that. I am sure that if I listed everything that I sent in my packet, people here would denounce me for going overboard, but it matters not to me.

What the hay, we'll denounce you anyway!

BTW, I'm waiting for your coming-out obsessing party in a couple of weeks. Will there be drinks and a live band?

[Cassie 8]

When I put together my packet, I wanted to have a wide range of evidence from multiple sources. I included notarized letters as part of that. I am sure that if I listed everything that I sent in my packet, people here would denounce me for going overboard, but it matters not to me.

What the hay, we'll denounce you anyway!

BTW, I'm waiting for your coming-out obsessing party in a couple of weeks. Will there be drinks and a live band?

hehehe *puts on denouncing deflecting suit*

No need for the obsession party--- aren't they processing April petitions now???? :whistle:

(Just in case I've got the side of beef defrosting and some good ole Okie boys tuning up their banjoes )

[Permanent Ban 0]

And as I have bored people to tears with elsewhere, affidavits mean affidavits, not just a letter or even a notarized letter.

And thank you for yet another monkey wrench

That was an informative and helpful reply - which is very much appreciated! Even if it doesn't exactly jive with what I had in mind (notarized letter)...

Thanks

It's not really that big a deal -- just put what the person would write in the letter in the affidavit instead. Look at the example affidavit I posted in the pinned thread. (You have to change "Customs" to "Citizenship" on the first line -- I spaced on the spelled out name of USCIS.) Write it up, have it notarized, and voila -- a sworn affidavit that, unlike all of the other letters and notarized letters ####### people talk about here, actually follows the I-751 instructions.

I downloaded a sample affidavit off of the state of New Jersey's Notary Public guide website. It looks very similar to the one you linked to. I'll have my parents affirm both this evening and I should be all set!

As for the question of whether the change in language on the I-751 makes a material difference to how we should interpret the instructions, James your point about the CFR is well-taken. My only concern is that the actual people doing the initial processing may not be legal beagles but $8/hour vendor employees working off a script. Further, I'm concerned that some of these clowns may read the I-751 language as I did.

[James 2]

My only concern is that the actual people doing the initial processing may not be legal beagles but $8/hour vendor employees working off a script. Further, I'm concerned that some of these clowns may read the I-751 language as I did.

Nah, they're not going to reject it at initial processing because you don't have affidavits or anything else (except for the petition itself and the fee). Assuming you didn't submit enough, you would just get an RFE at a later date -- never a flat out denial (because they interview first before denying).

[Permanent Ban 0]

My only concern is that the actual people doing the initial processing may not be legal beagles but $8/hour vendor employees working off a script. Further, I'm concerned that some of these clowns may read the I-751 language as I did.

Nah, they're not going to reject it at initial processing because you don't have affidavits or anything else (except for the petition itself and the fee). Assuming you didn't submit enough, you would just get an RFE at a later date -- never a flat out denial (because they interview first before denying).

Oh, I see. Thanks!

[Kez/JWolf 6]

There are 1000's of us who have not included them in our removals packet and have not had them returned or received a RFE.....

Kez