Judge: Same-sex couples can wed in Iowa

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

These gay marriage movements are all about homosexuals demanding the State Seal of Approval from government and a public validation from society. It is an American society that does not see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. So seeing that homosexuals cannot force society at large to validate them, they shop for judges in favorable venues to do it for them.

That said, homosexuals for the most part can already accomplish what heterosexual couples that just "shack up" already do. There is a lot that can already be done through wills, powers of attorney, and other legal instruments that often do the same thing as being married.

Except immigrate to the US. Hardly the egalitarian ideal.

Is there a compelling societal need to import homosexuals solely on the basis that they wish to be with an American homosexual?

Even heteros don't have a "right" to a foreign spouse, but there are provisions in US law that presently allows it if certain qualifications are met. Just because a foreigner marries an American hetero is no guarantee they will be allowed to enter the USA or legally reside here. You went through the process...you know that.

Homosexuality in and of itself does not bar anyone from immigrating to the US for other reasons. The majority consensus of American society doesn't see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. It's not against the law to be a homosexual or to commit homosexual acts between consenting adults.

As I said earlier...it's all about validation and the State Seal of Approval. That is the reason these folks push these special "hate crimes" laws that fly in the face of their whining about equality. So...what does that tell you when there are laws passed that give the murders of homosexuals more severe punishments than the murders of everyone else in society? That is so lame! It's all about state validation of homosexuality.

A vast majority of Americans recognize that they have brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, children, etc. that are gay and lesbian. Most Americans wish them no harm or ill treatment. However, most feel there is no compelling need to validate homosexuality or a need for homosexual marriage.

Americans don't see a compelling need for polygamy either. Is that the next cause celebre' of the Left? Muslims can't petition US-CIS for their 4 fiancees.

There is no visa classification that would allow me to immigrate to the US for the purposes of pursuing a relationship if I were a homosexual. Moreover, were it not for the fact that I met my wife I would likely have never moved here at all. If I'm gay and I meet someone - I couldn't do that.

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Yup ... the Sheriff wanted to shoot at me but can't aim straight. This dad is very proud of his gay son, and hopes his son can someday marry in the USA.

When does standing up for something respectfully become bigotry? No animosity! No disrespect! No hard feelings! That seems like propaganda nonsense to detour good folks from following their own conscience and having an opinion or position opposite to the gay community and their supporters. It's perfectly OK for folks to have different points of view or beliefs. You fight for what is right and just for you and I shall do the same. What's the problem (rhetorical question)? That's not bigotry but of course that just my POV. I’m a Christian, but I don’t believe in mandating prayer in the schools. Does that make me an atheist (rhetorical question)? Of course not… Good grief!

Cheers!!!

Sheriff Uling

p.s. By the by, perhaps you should leave the history lesson for another venue that is more appropriate. Oh, you are correct! My shot is a tad off...

Edited September 1, 2007 by Sheriff Uling

[Marilyn. 340]

oops too late... already been cleared up

Edited September 1, 2007 by MarilynP

[Scott & Lai 12]

I dunno. If I went out of my way just to insist I had nothing against black people, I just found them disgusting and unnatural and socially deviant and that I didn't hate them, I was just pro-white people, I think I'd rightly be called a racist.

So homosexuality is a race? The issue with people have with homosexuals is not so much their "orientation" as it is their behaviour.

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

These gay marriage movements are all about homosexuals demanding the State Seal of Approval from government and a public validation from society. It is an American society that does not see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. So seeing that homosexuals cannot force society at large to validate them, they shop for judges in favorable venues to do it for them.

That said, homosexuals for the most part can already accomplish what heterosexual couples that just "shack up" already do. There is a lot that can already be done through wills, powers of attorney, and other legal instruments that often do the same thing as being married.

Except immigrate to the US. Hardly the egalitarian ideal.

Is there a compelling societal need to import homosexuals solely on the basis that they wish to be with an American homosexual?

Even heteros don't have a "right" to a foreign spouse, but there are provisions in US law that presently allows it if certain qualifications are met. Just because a foreigner marries an American hetero is no guarantee they will be allowed to enter the USA or legally reside here. You went through the process...you know that.

Homosexuality in and of itself does not bar anyone from immigrating to the US for other reasons. The majority consensus of American society doesn't see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. It's not against the law to be a homosexual or to commit homosexual acts between consenting adults.

As I said earlier...it's all about validation and the State Seal of Approval. That is the reason these folks push these special "hate crimes" laws that fly in the face of their whining about equality. So...what does that tell you when there are laws passed that give the murders of homosexuals more severe punishments than the murders of everyone else in society? That is so lame! It's all about state validation of homosexuality.

A vast majority of Americans recognize that they have brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, children, etc. that are gay and lesbian. Most Americans wish them no harm or ill treatment. However, most feel there is no compelling need to validate homosexuality or a need for homosexual marriage.

Americans don't see a compelling need for polygamy either. Is that the next cause celebre' of the Left? Muslims can't petition US-CIS for their 4 fiancees.

[peejay 327]

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

These gay marriage movements are all about homosexuals demanding the State Seal of Approval from government and a public validation from society. It is an American society that does not see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. So seeing that homosexuals cannot force society at large to validate them, they shop for judges in favorable venues to do it for them.

That said, homosexuals for the most part can already accomplish what heterosexual couples that just "shack up" already do. There is a lot that can already be done through wills, powers of attorney, and other legal instruments that often do the same thing as being married.

Except immigrate to the US. Hardly the egalitarian ideal.

Is there a compelling societal need to import homosexuals solely on the basis that they wish to be with an American homosexual?

Even heteros don't have a "right" to a foreign spouse, but there are provisions in US law that presently allows it if certain qualifications are met. Just because a foreigner marries an American hetero is no guarantee they will be allowed to enter the USA or legally reside here. You went through the process...you know that.

Homosexuality in and of itself does not bar anyone from immigrating to the US for other reasons. The majority consensus of American society doesn't see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. It's not against the law to be a homosexual or to commit homosexual acts between consenting adults.

As I said earlier...it's all about validation and the State Seal of Approval. That is the reason these folks push these special "hate crimes" laws that fly in the face of their whining about equality. So...what does that tell you when there are laws passed that give the murders of homosexuals more severe punishments than the murders of everyone else in society? That is so lame! It's all about state validation of homosexuality.

A vast majority of Americans recognize that they have brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, children, etc. that are gay and lesbian. Most Americans wish them no harm or ill treatment. However, most feel there is no compelling need to validate homosexuality or a need for homosexual marriage.

Americans don't see a compelling need for polygamy either. Is that the next cause celebre' of the Left? Muslims can't petition US-CIS for their 4 fiancees.

There is no visa classification that would allow me to immigrate to the US for the purposes of pursuing a relationship if I were a homosexual. Moreover, were it not for the fact that I met my wife I would likely have never moved here at all. If I'm gay and I meet someone - I couldn't do that.

And you can't have 4 wives or 4 husbands or a mix and match combination of wives/husbands either. So what? Life isn't always about doing whatever you want to do just because you want to do it. Maybe you should have carried on an internet relationship with a Spaniard or a Canadian...if you were a homosexual? Or immigrate to a country where polygamy is part of their traditional values if you want multiple wives? America isn't about accomodating nudists just because there are some that want to run around naked in the streets either. If all that doesn't make it clear...then I give up! Life has limits...deal with it! As the Rolling Stones tune says..."You can't always get what you want." Not to mention..."I can't get no...Satisfaction."

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I dunno. If I went out of my way just to insist I had nothing against black people, I just found them disgusting and unnatural and socially deviant and that I didn't hate them, I was just pro-white people, I think I'd rightly be called a racist.

So homosexuality is a race? The issue with people have with homosexuals is not so much their "orientation" as it is their behaviour.

Dunno - seems to me thats a rather slender distinction to make. Can a person be gay without having a gay sex life? I'm not so sure...

[Scott & Lai 12]

I dunno. If I went out of my way just to insist I had nothing against black people, I just found them disgusting and unnatural and socially deviant and that I didn't hate them, I was just pro-white people, I think I'd rightly be called a racist.

So homosexuality is a race? The issue with people have with homosexuals is not so much their "orientation" as it is their behaviour.

Dunno - seems to me thats a rather slender distinction to make. Can a person be gay without having a gay sex life? I'm not so sure...

Feeling a desire is one thing, and may or may not be a choice. Acting on it is another matter, and is a choice.

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Is there a compelling societal need to import homosexuals solely on the basis that they wish to be with an American homosexual?

Even heteros don't have a "right" to a foreign spouse, but there are provisions in US law that presently allows it if certain qualifications are met. Just because a foreigner marries an American hetero is no guarantee they will be allowed to enter the USA or legally reside here. You went through the process...you know that.

Homosexuality in and of itself does not bar anyone from immigrating to the US for other reasons. The majority consensus of American society doesn't see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. It's not against the law to be a homosexual or to commit homosexual acts between consenting adults.

As I said earlier...it's all about validation and the State Seal of Approval. That is the reason these folks push these special "hate crimes" laws that fly in the face of their whining about equality. So...what does that tell you when there are laws passed that give the murders of homosexuals more severe punishments than the murders of everyone else in society? That is so lame! It's all about state validation of homosexuality.

A vast majority of Americans recognize that they have brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, children, etc. that are gay and lesbian. Most Americans wish them no harm or ill treatment. However, most feel there is no compelling need to validate homosexuality or a need for homosexual marriage.

Americans don't see a compelling need for polygamy either. Is that the next cause celebre' of the Left? Muslims can't petition US-CIS for their 4 fiancees.

Preach!!! I'm reading intently...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

These gay marriage movements are all about homosexuals demanding the State Seal of Approval from government and a public validation from society. It is an American society that does not see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. So seeing that homosexuals cannot force society at large to validate them, they shop for judges in favorable venues to do it for them.

That said, homosexuals for the most part can already accomplish what heterosexual couples that just "shack up" already do. There is a lot that can already be done through wills, powers of attorney, and other legal instruments that often do the same thing as being married.

Except immigrate to the US. Hardly the egalitarian ideal.

Is there a compelling societal need to import homosexuals solely on the basis that they wish to be with an American homosexual?

Even heteros don't have a "right" to a foreign spouse, but there are provisions in US law that presently allows it if certain qualifications are met. Just because a foreigner marries an American hetero is no guarantee they will be allowed to enter the USA or legally reside here. You went through the process...you know that.

Homosexuality in and of itself does not bar anyone from immigrating to the US for other reasons. The majority consensus of American society doesn't see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. It's not against the law to be a homosexual or to commit homosexual acts between consenting adults.

As I said earlier...it's all about validation and the State Seal of Approval. That is the reason these folks push these special "hate crimes" laws that fly in the face of their whining about equality. So...what does that tell you when there are laws passed that give the murders of homosexuals more severe punishments than the murders of everyone else in society? That is so lame! It's all about state validation of homosexuality.

A vast majority of Americans recognize that they have brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, children, etc. that are gay and lesbian. Most Americans wish them no harm or ill treatment. However, most feel there is no compelling need to validate homosexuality or a need for homosexual marriage.

Americans don't see a compelling need for polygamy either. Is that the next cause celebre' of the Left? Muslims can't petition US-CIS for their 4 fiancees.

There is no visa classification that would allow me to immigrate to the US for the purposes of pursuing a relationship if I were a homosexual. Moreover, were it not for the fact that I met my wife I would likely have never moved here at all. If I'm gay and I meet someone - I couldn't do that.

And you can't have 4 wives or 4 husbands or a mix and match combination of wives/husbands either. So what? Life isn't always about doing whatever you want to do just because you want to do it. Maybe you should have carried on an internet relationship with a Spaniard or a Canadian...if you were a homosexual? Or immigrate to a country where polygamy is part of their traditional values if you want multiple wives? America isn't about accomodating nudists just because there are some that want to run around naked in the streets either. If all that doesn't make it clear...then I give up! Life has limits...deal with it! As the Rolling Stones tune says..."You can't always get what you want." Not to mention..."I can't get no...Satisfaction."

I'm not sure I understand the correlation between homosexuality and polygamy. Someone mentioned incest in the other thread - and the same argument would seem to apply here. It seems the only way to critique a minority social group who engages in a non-standard lifestyle is to bring in another, more extreme example. Polygamy, like incest and bestiality is far from common and in the specific case of polygamy its reasonable to question whether or not the participants are in their right mind or going into it of their own free will (e.g. Mormonism). As I see it - the comparison is pretty much irrelevant. More than that - it seems rather insulting.

You mention America being a conservative country, that may be so. Yet Homosexuality has gained more acceptance than it previously had in the 20th century (and even before that). As I see it the question is whether or not law-abiding, well-adjusted people pursuing a relationship should be subject to all the legal freedoms that apply to everyone else. Whether or not its called 'marriage' is pretty much irrelevant to me - as its the 'legal elements' which are the core of the thing. Even then the assumption is that Christianity somehow 'owns' marriage. Of course given that other religions practice marriage, and indeed you can even have a completely secular ceremony - the distinction is nonsensical and entirely semantic. If it weren't such a huge waste of everyone's time to worry about what to call it, it might actually be funny.

I dunno. If I went out of my way just to insist I had nothing against black people, I just found them disgusting and unnatural and socially deviant and that I didn't hate them, I was just pro-white people, I think I'd rightly be called a racist.

So homosexuality is a race? The issue with people have with homosexuals is not so much their "orientation" as it is their behaviour.

Dunno - seems to me thats a rather slender distinction to make. Can a person be gay without having a gay sex life? I'm not so sure...

Feeling a desire is one thing, and may or may not be a choice. Acting on it is another matter, and is a choice.

So what? You're heterosexual. I presume you choose to 'act' on your feelings and desires. Do you expect others to judge you for doing so?

Edited September 1, 2007 by Number 6

[Sheriff Uling 3]

No one is writing that people can't be homosexual. Nobody is suggesting to limit the feelings or desires of Americans who are or want to be homosexual. We're just against homosexuals being able to legally marry in America. It's a pathway with ramifications that nobody has been willing to discuss or the conversation becomes dismissed by gay rights activist and/or supporters for their own selfish gains. This is Pandora’s Box! Don't open it!!!

Edited September 2, 2007 by Sheriff Uling

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No one is writing that people can't be homosexual. Nobody is suggesting to limit the feelings or desires of Americans who are or want to be homosexual. We're just against homosexuals being able to legally marry in America. It's a pathway with ramifications that nobody has been willing to discuss or the conversation becomes dismissed by gay rights activist and/or supporters for their own selfish gains. This is Pandora’s Box! Don't open it!!!

What ramifications are these?

[Sheriff Uling 3]

No one is writing that people can't be homosexual. Nobody is suggesting to limit the feelings or desires of Americans who are or want to be homosexual. We're just against homosexuals being able to legally marry in America. It's a pathway with ramifications that nobody has been willing to discuss or the conversation becomes dismissed by gay rights activist and/or supporters for their own selfish gains. This is Pandora’s Box! Don't open it!!!

What ramifications are these?

Peejay eluded to some of them. Read his post...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No one is writing that people can't be homosexual. Nobody is suggesting to limit the feelings or desires of Americans who are or want to be homosexual. We're just against homosexuals being able to legally marry in America. It's a pathway with ramifications that nobody has been willing to discuss or the conversation becomes dismissed by gay rights activist and/or supporters for their own selfish gains. This is Pandora’s Box! Don't open it!!!

What ramifications are these?

Peejay eluded to some of them. Read his post...

You mean the one about nudists running rampant in the streets, and people losing all sense of perspective and marrying as many people as they can get their hands on?

That seems a tad hysterical to me...

Edited September 2, 2007 by Number 6

[Sheriff Uling 3]

No one is writing that people can't be homosexual. Nobody is suggesting to limit the feelings or desires of Americans who are or want to be homosexual. We're just against homosexuals being able to legally marry in America. It's a pathway with ramifications that nobody has been willing to discuss or the conversation becomes dismissed by gay rights activist and/or supporters for their own selfish gains. This is Pandora’s Box! Don't open it!!!

What ramifications are these?

Peejay eluded to some of them. Read his post...

You mean the one about nudists running rampant in the streets, and people losing all sense of perspective and engaging in multiple marriages? That seems a tad hysterical to me...

Anything that does not go in-line with your perspective would. That's just human nature... To accept just anything opens the door to almost everything. I'm not here to convince you otherwise. I'm just expressing my opinion not to accept alternative lifestyles in the form of marriage.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No one is writing that people can't be homosexual. Nobody is suggesting to limit the feelings or desires of Americans who are or want to be homosexual. We're just against homosexuals being able to legally marry in America. It's a pathway with ramifications that nobody has been willing to discuss or the conversation becomes dismissed by gay rights activist and/or supporters for their own selfish gains. This is Pandora’s Box! Don't open it!!!

What ramifications are these?

Peejay eluded to some of them. Read his post...

You mean the one about nudists running rampant in the streets, and people losing all sense of perspective and engaging in multiple marriages? That seems a tad hysterical to me...

Anything that does not go in-line with your perspective would. That's just human nature... To accept just anything opens the door to almost everything. I'm not here to convince you otherwise. I'm just expressing my opinion not to accept alternative lifestyles in the form of marriage.

There's no proof of that. That's why I find the arguments about incest and polygamy to be ludicrous. To suddenly assume that because a gay consenting adult, in their own right mind and of their own free will decides to marry (again the semantic distinctions are irrelevant) another like-minded individual that suddenly all these 'deviant' people will suddenly crawl out of the woodwork demanding that the authorities allow them to marry siblings and livestock.

Its totally unsubstantiated.

Edited September 2, 2007 by Number 6