"Wet Signatures" For N-600 Physical Custody Evidence

[butmajor-leagueas 17]

4 hours ago, top_secret said:

 

We probably went WAY overkill on the proof of actual physical custody because when we got her US passport that was the one area where the passport agency said we needed more evidence than we had initially provided.  The passport agency was really focused on us showing school records in particular, though USCIS may have different priorities.  We filed online so we had one big multipage pdf named "proof_of_actual_pysical_custody.pdf.

 

Inside we had:
Scans of her California State DMV ID card and moms California driver's license, both showing the same address.
Scan of her school ID from our local neighborhood school.
Her enrolment and attendance printout as provided by her school.
A report card covering the trimester when mom naturalized.
A copy of a California State annual standardized testing report letter they mailed to her home address.
A scan of her health insurance card and the mailer it came in.
An "Explanation of Benefits" letter from her health insurance regarding some vaccine she got.
A medical appointment letter.
An after-visit summary report from a checkup appointment we downloaded online.
An insurance notice letter they mailed to our home address regarding some change in their billing system.
Her Social Security card and the mailer it came in showing her home address.
We separately included a tax transcript where we had claimed her as a dependent.

 

Other than the DMV ID and driver's license, none of that had any kind of signatures.  We were mainly focused on proving her home address was the same as moms at the time mom naturalized.

BTW, I didn't see if you mentioned having your US passport already.  While we totally agree it is important to file the N-600, a US Passport requires exactly the same evidence but is faster, easier and cheaper so it makes sense to do that first. We got our daughters US passport in just one day with an expedited appointment at a passport agency (requires rather flimsy proof of planned international travel in the next 14 days to get an expedited appointment)

 

Very interesting indeed. I guess I shouldn't be too concerned about signatures, then.

Now, I do want to ask a few questions regarding these specific records:

• For the Social Security card and the mailer it came in, do you know if that letter has some of sort generic title / name to it? If so, can you please share?

1. I'm trying to see if I can FOIA / PA that. Reason being that I have two SSN cards throughout my life - The first one has the "NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT" notice on top, while the other one does not. I logged into my ssa.gov account, and noticed that I don't get the notice that says that the SSA has me in their records as someone who is not a U.S. Citizen. Afterwards, I checked with my parents who said that they THINK that they might have also updated my status with the SSA as soon as I got my first U.S. passport. If there is evidence of action done by my parents on behalf of me via the SSA, then perhaps that could be good evidence of actual physical custody.
2. However, from what I heard, the SSA does not really like FOIA / PA requests that are "all records" requests. So, I'd want to figure out what I'd want to ask them for.

• For the "tax transcript" part, forgive my ignorance, but what's exactly the difference between a tax transcript and IRS 1040 form? I know that the IRS 1040 sort of serves as a "cover page" for tax return filings, which includes many additional forms that are supplemented to it. But what exactly is a tax transcript? Which one is better for this purpose?

I do have a U.S. passport, and my very first one was issued only shortly after both my parents became U.S. citizens. Several, in fact throughout the years. And in fact, the point that people were making about how it has "the same evidence" resonated with me, until I realized that when I got my first U.S. passport around 20 years ago, the DOS had a completely different interpretation of the "physical custody" portion of INA Section 320. Back in those days, they had interpreted it as where the child is physically with the parent at the acceptance facility when submitting the passport application. When I realized that this was the case, I was crushed, since I was hoping that I could FOIA / PA past passport applications.

 

I actually wonder if an approved DS-11 application can serve as proof of physical custody for USCIS Form N-600, if I could FOIA / PA it. If you think about it, it has a lot of info about the parents' and child and we they all live and also a date for when the application was signed and submitted.

 

Other than that, I was able to get a bunch of medical and school records, but they weren't always quite during the exact year that my parent became a US citizen, though, they were still from when I was a minor.

[butmajor-leagueas 17]

4 hours ago, OldUser said:

@top_secret considering one has only one chance at N-600, providing as much proof as possible isn't a bad idea

 

So, you have a point, but keep in mind that providing too much evidence could often lead to additional delays and longer processing times.

Although, a person has only one chance at a N-600, USCIS won't just straight up deny an application unless the person was determined to not be a citizen at all. If they want more evidence, they'd simply issue an RFE.

[Crazy Cat 45,259]

4 minutes ago, butmajor-leagueas said:

USCIS won't just straight up deny an application unless the person was determined to not be a citizen at all. If they want more evidence, they'd simply issue an RFE.

It is always at their discretion. 

[butmajor-leagueas 17]

12 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

It is always at their discretion. 

 

Well, USCIS' field manual does say "the officer may not exercise discretion arbitrarily, inconsistently, or in reliance on biases or assumptions", but maybe in practice you are right.

[OldUser 10,383]

32 minutes ago, butmajor-leagueas said:

So, you have a point, but keep in mind that providing too much evidence could often lead to additional delays and longer processing times.

I disagree with this statement. Based in my experience, officers don't study all evidence. 

 

The way I understand it works:

1) You file a well organized case with as much quality evidence as you can produce.

2) You provide table of contents for your packet. E.g. "page 10-20 - bank statements, page 20-30 - school records" etc.

3) Officer checks table of contents, goes to page 10 for bank statement. Checkes the box. Goes back to table of contents, then to page 20 for school records. Checks few pages. Checks the box. And so on.

 

They'd only read the whole thing if they need more insight. If things look straightforward, officer checks few things and moves on satisfied.

 

This is based on my AOS experience. I brought tons of evidence, officer asked me for some samples, filtered through those quickly and kept what he was interested in. It took less than 30 seconds.

 

Submitting less has issues:

1) RFE and NOIDs add time. Isn't it what you want, to get quicker approval? Then why prolong it unnecessarily?

2) USCIS is known to sometimes skip straight to NOID or denial, without issuing RFE. This is wrong, but it happens. Would I want to deal with it? No.

 

This is just my $0.02.

 

P.S. some instructions for forms, for example I-751 explicitly asks for as much evidence as possible.

 

 

Edited August 6 by OldUser

[butmajor-leagueas 17]

34 minutes ago, OldUser said:

I disagree with this statement. Based in my experience, officers don't study all evidence. 

 

The way I understand it works:

1) You file a well organized case with as much quality evidence as you can produce.

2) You provide table of contents for your packet. E.g. "page 10-20 - bank statements, page 20-30 - school records" etc.

3) Officer checks table of contents, goes to page 10 for bank statement. Checkes the box. Goes back to table of contents, then to page 20 for school records. Checks few pages. Checks the box. And so on.

 

They'd only read the whole thing if they need more insight. If things look straightforward, officer checks few things and moves on satisfied.

 

This is based on my AOS experience. I brought tons of evidence, officer asked me for some samples, filtered through those quickly and kept what he was interested in. It took less than 30 seconds.

 

Submitting less has issues:

1) RFE and NOIDs add time. Isn't it what you want, to get quicker approval? Then why prolong it unnecessarily?

2) USCIS is known to sometimes skip straight to NOID or denial, without issuing RFE. This is wrong, but it happens. Would I want to deal with it? No.

 

This is just my $0.02.

 

P.S. some instructions for forms, for example I-751 explicitly asks for as much evidence as possible.

 

 

 

Understood. Thanks for this information (you learn something new every day). So, that basically clears the misconception I have and I understand that - More evidence is better esp for something like physical custody.

 

I'm still unsure about if for physical custody, does it always have to be in the exact and precise year that the parent(s) naturalized in. I do have some evidence from that specific year, but not nearly as much as evidence from later years when I was still a minor.

 

I guess I'm not only worried about a denial, but also if they end up incorrectly concluding that I became a citizen later than I actually did.

 

Also, although I will be submitting my currently valid U.S. Passport as evidence of U.S. Citizenship, with the general idea that "more evidence is better" - although USCIS doesn't recognize expired U.S. Passports as evidence that a person is a U.S. Citizen today, I still wonder if it would act as evidence of U.S. Citizenship for the period of its validity in the past? Would it hurt to submit U.S. Passports from the past? 

[OldUser 10,383]

2 hours ago, butmajor-leagueas said:

Would it hurt to submit U.S. Passports from the past? 

In my opinion this is excellent evidence of being US citizen (not necesarily physical presence) but others who went through process can correct me.

 

CC @top_secret

[butmajor-leagueas 17]

On 8/5/2025 at 2:38 PM, top_secret said:

 

We probably went WAY overkill on the proof of actual physical custody because when we got her US passport that was the one area where the passport agency said we needed more evidence than we had initially provided.  The passport agency was really focused on us showing school records in particular, though USCIS may have different priorities.  We filed online so we had one big multipage pdf named "proof_of_actual_pysical_custody.pdf.

 

Inside we had:
Scans of her California State DMV ID card and moms California driver's license, both showing the same address.
Scan of her school ID from our local neighborhood school.
Her enrolment and attendance printout as provided by her school.
A report card covering the trimester when mom naturalized.
A copy of a California State annual standardized testing report letter they mailed to her home address.
A scan of her health insurance card and the mailer it came in.
An "Explanation of Benefits" letter from her health insurance regarding some vaccine she got.
A medical appointment letter.
An after-visit summary report from a checkup appointment we downloaded online.
An insurance notice letter they mailed to our home address regarding some change in their billing system.
Her Social Security card and the mailer it came in showing her home address.
We separately included a tax transcript where we had claimed her as a dependent.

 

Other than the DMV ID and driver's license, none of that had any kind of signatures.  We were mainly focused on proving her home address was the same as moms at the time mom naturalized.

BTW, I didn't see if you mentioned having your US passport already.  While we totally agree it is important to file the N-600, a US Passport requires exactly the same evidence but is faster, easier and cheaper so it makes sense to do that first. We got our daughters US passport in just one day with an expedited appointment at a passport agency (requires rather flimsy proof of planned international travel in the next 14 days to get an expedited appointment)

I also wanted to ask if a majority of this evidence was contemporaneous? I'm assuming that it was...

[butmajor-leagueas 17]

On 8/6/2025 at 12:00 AM, OldUser said:

In my opinion this is excellent evidence of being US citizen (not necesarily physical presence) but others who went through process can correct me.

 

CC @top_secret

What about a copy of the child's original passport application itself (I'm just brainstorming / thinking out loud) for proof of physical custody?

It wouldn't necessarily be evidence of US citizenship status per se, but I was thinking that it could be evidence of physical custody, since it would require the parents to the child's name, address, and also their names too. And then sign it too.

 

Here is a archive of how that form was from that era (2006) -

https://web.archive.org/web/20061207054435/http://foia.state.gov/Forms/Passport/ds0011.pdf

 

It asks for both the mailing address and permanent address of the child.

Edited August 8 by butmajor-leagueas
Updated the list of items that DS-11 asks to fill out...

[butmajor-leagueas 17]

Bump!