HELP me Compute pls!

[Jim♥Michelle 0]

Good Day to ALL VJers.. Please help me compute my husband's travel IN and OUT the USA.. Me and my hubby both confused maybe if you guys compute his travels we will be at ease.. co'z you're all knowledgeable when it comes with this..

FIRST STEP IN USA..

June 27, 2000 - Nov. 11, 2001 - USA

1 Yr, 4 months, 15 days = 502 days.

Nov. 11, 2001 - Sept. 5, 2002 - PHIL

9 months, 25 days = 298 days. <-- he stayed here in the Philippines for 10 months so we assume that his counting is automatically back to zero right?...

-------------------------------------------------------------

START OF COUNTING AGAIN..

Sept. 6, 2002 - March 20, 2004 - USA

1 Yr, 6 months, 14 days = 561 days.

March 21, 2004 - Sept. 21, 2004 - PHIL

6 months, 0 days = 184 days.

Sept. 22, 2004 - June 21, 2006 - USA

1 Yr, 8 months, 30 days = 637 days.

June 22, 2006 - July 15, 2006 - PHIL

23 days = 23 days (3 weeks)

July 16, 2006 - up to present - USA

------------------------------------------------------------

So guys,, what do you think.. I'm sure that he's eligible to file citizenship by next year but we're confused if what month either February, March or April.. <--3 months before he reached 5 years..

Thank You in advance..

Mabuhay!

[warlord 72]

Well yes, the 9 months is surely going to run him into problems unless he can prove that he was there and maintaining US residency, however that would be up to him to prove to INS that not INS trying to prove he didn't.

Now since you restarted the clock, hopefully the INS doesn't think he abandoned his Green Card during that time (which doesn't seem to happen to often). So looking at his time out of the country, they might have him prove during that 6 months that he was maintaining US residency and didn't abandon it at that time. He would have to show all the documents, leases, taxes paid etc to show he wasn't a) working aboard or B) living abroad at all. So get as much information you can together to show the IO during the interview so that there is no doubt he was living in the US and just took a 6 month trip out of the US that time.

You would be eligible 90 days (not 3 months) before the PR of your husband. Since I'm not sure when he got his original PR, I can't say when the date is. So you'll just want to do the math and subtract 90 days from that...

[Jim♥Michelle 0]

Well yes, the 9 months is surely going to run him into problems unless he can prove that he was there and maintaining US residency, however that would be up to him to prove to INS that not INS trying to prove he didn't.

Now since you restarted the clock, hopefully the INS doesn't think he abandoned his Green Card during that time (which doesn't seem to happen to often). So looking at his time out of the country, they might have him prove during that 6 months that he was maintaining US residency and didn't abandon it at that time. He would have to show all the documents, leases, taxes paid etc to show he wasn't a) working aboard or B) living abroad at all. So get as much information you can together to show the IO during the interview so that there is no doubt he was living in the US and just took a 6 month trip out of the US that time.

You would be eligible 90 days (not 3 months) before the PR of your husband. Since I'm not sure when he got his original PR, I can't say when the date is. So you'll just want to do the math and subtract 90 days from that...

Good Day Warlord..

THANK YOU so much.. we're pretty sure we can prove the IO that he didn't abandon his residency because he continued to file taxes and paid bills etc and up to now he's still living in the US. We're looking forward to file his Naturalization this coming February 2008.. what do you think? That was June 27, 2000

I think he became LPR the day he arrived in the USA, am I right Sir?... And one more question Warlord, he's planning to file next year but after he file he's planning to visit me here in the Philippines for 3- 4 months.. does the immigration allow that?.. You know traveling outside the USA while naturalization is still pending..

Again, Thank You So Much for helping people like me.

GOD Bless YOU!

[lucyrich 19]

does the immigration allow that?.. You know traveling outside the USA while naturalization is still pending..

They do, but there could be problems. He should be ready to come to the interview (or at least to reschedule it) when they ask him to. And he's got to meet the "3 months in district or state" residency requirement at the time he naturalizes.

But more importantly, it looks like he's got a break of exactly 6 months outside the US from March 2004, to Sept 2004. Even if there's clearly no abandonment of status issue, any break of 6 months or longer restarts the clock on continuous residency for naturalization purposes. Note that the precise language on page 18 of the M-476 is "6 months or longer", not "more than 6 months".

I'm not sure how they count fractional days, nor do I know whether they start counting when the plane takes off, or the plane lands, or the moment he goes through customs, or what. This case sounds so close, little things like that may make the difference. It sounds like you'd be well advised to research exactly what the precise rules are, and bring the authoritative source with you to the interview. Otherwise, he'll get to the interview, they'll see the break of 6 months, and say that the clock on continuous residence restarted with that break.

[Jim♥Michelle 0]

does the immigration allow that?.. You know traveling outside the USA while naturalization is still pending..

They do, but there could be problems. He should be ready to come to the interview (or at least to reschedule it) when they ask him to. And he's got to meet the "3 months in district or state" residency requirement at the time he naturalizes.

But more importantly, it looks like he's got a break of exactly 6 months outside the US from March 2004, to Sept 2004. Even if there's clearly no abandonment of status issue, any break of 6 months or longer restarts the clock on continuous residency for naturalization purposes. Note that the precise language on page 18 of the M-476 is "6 months or longer", not "more than 6 months".

I'm not sure how they count fractional days, nor do I know whether they start counting when the plane takes off, or the plane lands, or the moment he goes through customs, or what. This case sounds so close, little things like that may make the difference. It sounds like you'd be well advised to research exactly what the precise rules are, and bring the authoritative source with you to the interview. Otherwise, he'll get to the interview, they'll see the break of 6 months, and say that the clock on continuous residence restarted with that break.

Hi Lucyrich .. Thank you for your immediate response .. as I read M-476.pdf Page 22 (25 of 65) It clearly says that

What if I was outside the United States between 6 and 12 months?

"If you leave the US for MORE THAN 6 months, but less than 1 year, you have broken or disrupted your continous residence unless you can prove otherwise. "

It stated there that MORE THAN 6 months but less than 1 year.. and on my hubby's case was exactly 6 months .. now im confused hehehe..

[warlord 72]

Anything longet then 6 months can break the residency and be classified as possible GC abandonment unless there's enough proof which you state you have. Still it's going to be up to you to prove this to the INS (not the other way around).

On the GC will will state (PR since) that is the date. So once he moved back to the US from that 10 months away, you now need to start the 3 year clock from that day he arrived back. So if that was last year say and he moved back to the US in say Sept, he would be eligible to file for the N-400 in 2009 (2 years and 9 months).

When he has the interview he needs to wait for the oath ceremony so leaving the US in that time is very risky. Also that time out will also count against his residency (even if he has passed the interview), so if he's on the line with number of days out, he might push that too far and be denied the oath. After the oath ceremony he will have to apply for a US passport and have that passport before he leaves the country to visit you.

People who leave the US for more then 6 months have a lot of work they have to do to prove they have maintained residency. Many also get confused (like you) about how many days now they have counted for the residency requirements etc. This is the problem and many times this leads to a long N-400 process with many being denied or others being told they are ineligible to apply until years later down the road...

[lucyrich 19]

Hi Lucyrich .. Thank you for your immediate response .. as I read M-476.pdf Page 22 (25 of 65) It clearly says that

What if I was outside the United States between 6 and 12 months?

"If you leave the US for MORE THAN 6 months, but less than 1 year, you have broken or disrupted your continous residence unless you can prove otherwise. "

It stated there that MORE THAN 6 months but less than 1 year.. and on my hubby's case was exactly 6 months .. now im confused hehehe..

Yes, the M-476 does state that. The M-476 also clearly states, in the table on page 18 under the continuous residence requirement "5 years as a Permanent Resident without leaving the United States for trips of 6 months or longer."

The M-476 is not legally binding, but is a general guideline, with the provisions of the statute and regulations in a "dumbed down" form. To find the real answer, you've got to look at the law and regulations. Unfortunately, in this case, it's still not terribly clear.

INA 316 (b) has the "more than six months" language. See it here.

But 8 CFR 316.5 ©(1)(i) has the "six months or more" language. See it here.

Generally, if you're ineligible by either the regulation or by the statute, you're ineligible.

I don't know exactly how they count days, so I'm not sure if his absence was considered more than six months, less than six months, or equal to six months. The day of departure was a day that was spent partly in the US and partly out of it. Do they count it as a full day inside the US or a full day outside? Likewise, the day of arrival.

Or do they count the exact time of departure and arrival? If you departed at noon Jan 1, and arrived at 10:00 am July 1, would that be considered two hours less than six months? I don't know, but I seem to remember reading a policy about counting only full days, but I don't remember exactly what it said.

I really don't know the answer for your case, but the only thing I can suggest is that it's an area you'd be well advised to find the authoritative answer to.

[Jim♥Michelle 0]

Thank you guys..

but "WHAT IF" ... What if Immigration denied his papers, does the $675 will return to us?.. hehehe

[lucyrich 19]

Thank you guys..

but "WHAT IF" ... What if Immigration denied his papers, does the $675 will return to us?..

Now this one is very easy to answer. NO. They keep the application fee whether they approve or deny the application.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

I have a friend who is in the same situation with regards to 6 months or more out of the US.... she was told at her interview that when counting the days or part days it works as follows:-

The Day you depart the US = As you woke up in the US, even if you depart before 12 noon it is counted as a day in the US...

Day you return to the US = As you woke up outside the US, it can not count as a day in the US, even if you arrive before noon...

My friend was outside the US for exactly 6 months, she believed that it was only over 6 months that would affect the date she could file.... she got all the way to interview only to be denied and now has to wait again as the clock restarted after her 6 month trip....

Hope this helps

Kez

[Jim♥Michelle 0]

I have a friend who is in the same situation with regards to 6 months or more out of the US.... she was told at her interview that when counting the days or part days it works as follows:-

The Day you depart the US = As you woke up in the US, even if you depart before 12 noon it is counted as a day in the US...

Day you return to the US = As you woke up outside the US, it can not count as a day in the US, even if you arrive before noon...

My friend was outside the US for exactly 6 months, she believed that it was only over 6 months that would affect the date she could file.... she got all the way to interview only to be denied and now has to wait again as the clock restarted after her 6 month trip....

Hope this helps

Kez

Thank You for sharing your friend's story.. I thought it's easy to prove the INS that he didn't abandon his residency as long as he has proof like filing taxes, and with immediate relative living in the US while he's out of the country. Now, we're thinking whether to file or restart counting after his 6 month trip "AGAIN" (we already did that after his 10 month trip).. I'm so disappointed,.. but wait, does she prove the INS that she didn't abandon her residency?.. what about her bills, taxes, etc.. ?

[Feliz 0]

hi i am in similar situation (8+11=19 total months out of US) and here are official instructions and quotes what i found on the matter:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89841

[Jim♥Michelle 0]

hi i am in similar situation (8+11=19 total months out of US) and here are official instructions and quotes what i found on the matter:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89841

Hi there. Are you processing your citizenship now? ... You think filling taxes yearly is the best evidence we can show INS?

[warlord 72]

I have a friend who is in the same situation with regards to 6 months or more out of the US.... she was told at her interview that when counting the days or part days it works as follows:-

The Day you depart the US = As you woke up in the US, even if you depart before 12 noon it is counted as a day in the US...

Day you return to the US = As you woke up outside the US, it can not count as a day in the US, even if you arrive before noon...

My friend was outside the US for exactly 6 months, she believed that it was only over 6 months that would affect the date she could file.... she got all the way to interview only to be denied and now has to wait again as the clock restarted after her 6 month trip....

Hope this helps

Kez

Thank You for sharing your friend's story.. I thought it's easy to prove the INS that he didn't abandon his residency as long as he has proof like filing taxes, and with immediate relative living in the US while he's out of the country. Now, we're thinking whether to file or restart counting after his 6 month trip "AGAIN" (we already did that after his 10 month trip).. I'm so disappointed,.. but wait, does she prove the INS that she didn't abandon her residency?.. what about her bills, taxes, etc.. ?

After 6 months you will have to prove to the INS you were still living in the US and only visiting another country temporarily (aka not working, living, paying taxes etc there). If you are found to have worked in the other coutry, recieving income and having a residence there, then you will be denied and possibly be found to have abandoned your Green Card. You also need to have a re-entry permit from what I understand for trips longer then 6 months as well. So you will have to show that and eventhough that will not be enough evidence, it's something at least.

So yes she will have to get as much information together (having a relative living here means nothing) as she needs to be the one living here and that's all they will look at...

[Jim♥Michelle 0]

Well for citizenship other then the passport they will also check things like your taxes if filed etc. This pertains more to people working overseas which you cannot do on the Green Card (otherwise it's considered abandoned). If it's a vacation, then it's usually not a big deal.

Just remember for citizenship any trip 6 months or less is allowed, 6months to 1 year you will have to prove to them that you maintained residency. After a year, good luck, you'll probably be denied. Now how will they know? Well if you don't answer truthfully and they find out then you are risking getting caught and being denied and possibly deported. So that's a risk...

Hi Warlord, I read your post somewhere here .. we're still confused on what to do.. "to file or not to file".. my husband traveled with exactly 6 months (184 days) If we restart counting again he can probably file on July 2009 and that's painful to us.. Before he went here in the Philippines, he resigned from his work so that he can spend 6 months here. He continuously files taxes every year.. and never worked in the Philippines. What do you think Sir? ... If 6 months is okey, we can file this January 2008.

One more thing, I heard about Infopass, any idea about that?.. How to get it and where to use it?...

Thanks in advance.. We're happy that there's people like you here... who's willing to help.

God Bless you and your family.