Philippines Gurus, need feedback, divorced,married in PI, filed for f2a, possible marriage not valid??

[LexieJ 44]

Hi Guys,

   So i am a member of a Filipino immigration group in Facebook and I have been sharing my knowledge that I gained from this site when posters have question and to my surprised this lady DM'd me about her case. She got her green card from her US citizen son. She got divorced to her Filipino husband (the son's bio father), did not file for annulment or recognition of divorce paperwork. She then married her 2nd husband without those paperwork 25 years ago and when i asked her how she did it she said "we just went to Manila City hall and got married and they didn't ask for anything". Now fast forward a few years ago she filed for her 2nd hubby as F2a and he has been DC'd since Feb 2021, obviously USCIS and NVC approved all her documents but now she is worried that someone told her that she will need Cenomar during the interview. Now my question is, I think this marriage is not even legal/valid, correct? Per PH law she is not free to marry when they got married 25  years ago as she did not file for annulment or the recognition of divorce paperwork. I told her to consult an immigration and a family lawyer in the Philippines as her case seems complicated. Thoughts? 

[Adventine 3,187]

We need a few more details please:

 

- did she file for divorce from her 1st husband in the US? And does she still have the divorce paperwork?

 

- did she try running a CENOMAR search on herself yet to see what the PSA records show?

 

- is her 1st husband still alive?

[LexieJ 44]

2 hours ago, Adventine said:

We need a few more details please:

 

- did she file for divorce from her 1st husband in the US? And does she still have the divorce paperwork?

 

- did she try running a CENOMAR search on herself yet to see what the PSA records show?

 

- is her 1st husband still alive?

Hi Adventine,

    So I got more information:

--Ex hubby filed for divorce here in the US in 1991 and she has the divorce decree. she used that divorce decree to file for hubby #2. She married hubby #2 in 1997, without filing for annulment/recognition paperwork, she said Cenomar was not needed in 1997. 

 

--She said that she didn't know that she needed to file the recognition of divorce paperwork until 3 years ago when she filed for hubby #2's I-130, she hired a lawyer in PH who got her a :cenomar and told her that she(the PH lawyer) will file for the recognition paperwork but never did and she ran away with her money. That cenomar might not be even legit ? All her civil documents were accepted by USCIS and NVC, which leads to my next question, if this was the case how can NVC accept her civil docs? Seems like the Cenomar might have been produced fraudulently?

 

--Her first hubby is still alive and re-married as well. 

 

She is planning to withdraw the case until she can sort this out, I told her that her hubby might get grilled during the interview and might need to produce legit documents if they decided to push through with the case. Seems like the best way to go around this is withdrawing the case, either marry outside of PH and or if they decide to remarry in PH then she needs to file the recognition paperwork and once everything is finalized then she can refile again, seems like this is her only option, right?

[Adventine 3,187]

Actually, as long as she can prove she was legally divorced in the US before marrying husband #2, she should be all right. The US embassy will follow US divorce laws. Other members with more direct experience will be able to reconfirm.

 

The only thing I'm concerned about is that Cenomar which may or may not be legitimate. I hope she didn't submit that possibly fake Cenomar at any point of the process.

 

 

[LexieJ 44]

40 minutes ago, Adventine said:

Actually, as long as she can prove she was legally divorced in the US before marrying husband #2, she should be all right. The US embassy will follow US divorce laws. Other members with more direct experience will be able to reconfirm.

 

The only thing I'm concerned about is that Cenomar which may or may not be legitimate. I hope she didn't submit that possibly fake Cenomar at any point of the process.

 

 

She submitted the Cenomar and was accepted by NVC. He has been Dq''d since February 2021. My confusion is when she married husband #2 in the Philippines without the annulment and recognition of divorce paperwork, so in the eyes of PH law she was nit free to marry thus making this marriage invalid, if she would  have  married overseas then it should not have been an issue. 

[Adventine 3,187]

Ah, so if I am understanding you right, you meant that she married husband #1 in the Philippines, then divorced him in the US. And then without getting the annulment/foreign recognition of divorce, she got married again in the Philippines to husband #2.  Both husbands were Filipino citizens at the time of their marriage? 

 

That is tricky and I see now why you have doubts. Hopefully others will chime in soon.

[LexieJ 44]

Yes! That's exactly what happened!

[Chancy 6,233]

1 hour ago, LexieJ said:

My confusion is when she married husband #2 in the Philippines without the annulment and recognition of divorce paperwork, so in the eyes of PH law she was nit free to marry thus making this marriage invalid, if she would  have  married overseas then it should not have been an issue.

 

I agree with your interpretation -- marriage #2 is invalid under PH law, if they were both PH citizens at the time of the wedding.  They need to consult with a family lawyer in the PH.

 

Also, the US embassy in Manila will require CENOMAR/CEMAR from both petitioner and beneficiary in this case, as presumably they both lived in the PH for years after turning 18 years old.  USEM will only accept PSA CENOMAR/CEMAR that was issued within 1 year of the interview.  So the CENOMAR/CEMAR uploaded to CEAC prior to Feb 2021 DQ is no longer valid.  Plus, the petitioner's CENOMAR/CEMAR must list all the legal names she ever used.  If she ever changed her name after marriage #1, that name should be listed in her CENOMAR/CEMAR.

 

[LexieJ 44]

2 minutes ago, Chancy said:

 

I agree with your interpretation -- marriage #2 is invalid under PH law, if they were both PH citizens at the time of the wedding.  They need to consult with a family lawyer in the PH.

 

Also, the US embassy in Manila will require CENOMAR/CEMAR from both petitioner and beneficiary in this case, as presumably they both lived in the PH for years after turning 18 years old.  USEM will only accept PSA CENOMAR/CEMAR that was issued within 1 year of the interview.  So the CENOMAR/CEMAR uploaded to CEAC prior to Feb 2021 DQ is no longer valid.  Plus, the petitioner's CENOMAR/CEMAR must list all the legal names she ever used.  If she ever changed her name after marriage #1, that name should be listed in her CENOMAR/CEMAR.

 

I think the Cenomar/Cemar that "was issued by the PH lawyer might not even be legit" . It's probably from Recto or from somewhere else and not from PSA. That is her problem now, how to get the Cemar as she had not filed one herself, I told her to consult a PH lawyer ASAP. Her case seems so messy. She is planning to withdraw her petition from NVC until she can get this all sorted out. I told her the most viable option is to marry him overseas and or file for recognition paperwork and once that's finalize then she can marry him again.

     My only question though is why will NVC and USCIS accept those documents? How can she go this far in the process with possible fraudulent documents?

[Chancy 6,233]

1 hour ago, LexieJ said:

My only question though is why will NVC and USCIS accept those documents? How can she go this far in the process with possible fraudulent documents?

 

It's possible that the CENOMAR/CEMAR submitted to NVC is not fraudulent, even if the marriage is invalid.  PSA could have simply made a mistake in not detecting that the petitioner already has an existing marriage record.  In any case, USCIS adjudicators would not be well-versed with PH marriage laws, so would not suspect that PH marriage #2 is invalid.  NVC is just a document screener, so as long as the documents comply with the formats specified on the Reciprocity page, NVC will be fine with it.  But the consulate staff in Manila would be very familiar with the tricks that PH visa applicants may use to bypass PH no-divorce laws.  While not 100% guaranteed that they will be caught by USEM, the chances are still high that USEM will figure out that the marriage is invalid.  If only they had married abroad, they would have avoided this mess and USEM would not have cared about what their CENOMAR/CEMAR says.

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Chancy
clarification

[Family 3,556]

30 minutes ago, LexieJ said:

My only question though is why will NVC and USCIS accept those documents? How can she go this far in the process with possible fraudulent documents

Because at USCIS stage only they reviewed the US Divorce and Philippine Marriage Certificate and they were both issued / registered by legitimate authorities  and CENMAR is not required to get I-130 approved much like Police Certificate is not at that stage.
 

At NVC , whatever CENMAR  , she provided , may have”  looked “ good enough. ..remember the Petitioner still has the original CENMAR in her hand. 
 

At this stage , being that she is married to the man since 1997 , and has lived as a married couple in the Philippines since 1997 ( marriage certificate duly registered) it’s probably worth attending interview with whatever she has in hand. …and see how it plays out. 
 

If it is an issue , she then files her own US divorce from husband #2 , flies to the Philippines and does a Utah zoom marriage and files a new I-130. 
 

Under NO circumstances should she go “ marry overseas” without divorcing 

 

I would NOT recommend any action by any attorneys in the Philippines because everyone posting indicates it will take years and big $$$ ….and she may end up with more fake ribbons/stamps and promises.

 

 

[Chancy 6,233]

4 minutes ago, Family said:

At this stage , being that she is married to the man since 1997 , and has lived as a married couple in the Philippines since 1997 ( marriage certificate duly registered) it’s probably worth attending interview with whatever she has in hand. …and see how it plays out.

 

Even if PH marriage #2 was duly registered, it is a bigamous marriage, and therefore invalid under PH law.  The couple should consult a family lawyer in the PH to verify if this is the case.  If the marriage is confirmed to be invalid, they would be committing fraud if they continue to pursue the F2A case based on the current marriage, even if USEM does not catch them.  I would not recommend it.

 

[LexieJ 44]

3 hours ago, Family said:

Because at USCIS stage only they reviewed the US Divorce and Philippine Marriage Certificate and they were both issued / registered by legitimate authorities  and CENMAR is not required to get I-130 approved much like Police Certificate is not at that stage.
 

At NVC , whatever CENMAR  , she provided , may have”  looked “ good enough. ..remember the Petitioner still has the original CENMAR in her hand. 
 

At this stage , being that she is married to the man since 1997 , and has lived as a married couple in the Philippines since 1997 ( marriage certificate duly registered) it’s probably worth attending interview with whatever she has in hand. …and see how it plays out. 
 

If it is an issue , she then files her own US divorce from husband #2 , flies to the Philippines and does a Utah zoom marriage and files a new I-130. 
 

Under NO circumstances should she go “ marry overseas” without divorcing 

 

I would NOT recommend any action by any attorneys in the Philippines because everyone posting indicates it will take years and big $$$ ….and she may end up with more fake ribbons/stamps and promises.

 

 

How can you divorce/dissolve an invalid marriage?

[LexieJ 44]

2 hours ago, Chancy said:

 

Even if PH marriage #2 was duly registered, it is a bigamous marriage, and therefore invalid under PH law.  The couple should consult a family lawyer in the PH to verify if this is the case.  If the marriage is confirmed to be invalid, they would be committing fraud if they continue to pursue the F2A case based on the current marriage, even if USEM does not catch them.  I would not recommend it.

 

This is exactly my sentiments! I think this lady knew what she did was wrong coz she was the one that told me that she will withdraw it.

[Chancy 6,233]

1 minute ago, LexieJ said:

I think this lady knew what she did was wrong coz she was the one that told me that she will withdraw it.

 

Advise her to consult with a reputable family lawyer in the PH first before withdrawing the case.  Even with extensive online messaging, we may miss relevant details about her marriage history, so best to check with a lawyer that could examine all the circumstances and paperwork first-hand.