UK schools drop Hitler, Gandhi, Stalin, MLK and Churchill from curriculum - add the environment, healthy eating and Urdu

[Ban Hammer 14,273]

Christ, MORE dumbing down...that's the last thing the UK needs. I had 18 year-olds at my last job ask me what the BERLIN WALL was. Morons.

There are and long have been plenty of 18 year olds here in the US that wouldn't know.

Mention the airlift around here and you get a lot of blank stares.

That's pretty unbelievable since it's part of the standard curriculum, at least in this state. They actually taught history in my school. And science. And math. I don't know these idiot Americans everyone keeps bringing up as examples.

You mean to tell me that your average American high school grad can tell me something about the Airlift? I actually know very few Americans of any age that would know what that was. Maybe I've been hanging with the wrong crowds...

As for the Berlin Wall. Well, let's just say that I've met enough Americans that didn't exactly know where to find Germany on the map to begin with. And most are pretty stunned when they learn that the Berlin Wall enclosed all of West Berlin rather than just separated East Berlin from West Berlin. They're equally stunned when they learn that West Berlin was an island - so to speak - in the middle of East Germany. Which plays perfectly into the complete ignorance about the Airlift.

wasn't the name of the airport tempelhof or something like that which the airlift flew in and out of (lots of flights based out of rhein main by frankfurt btw).

[Cry_Tuff 0]

Personally, I think it's good that they want to include these other teaching strategies.....but I agree that taking away history would be detrimental to the whole curriculum.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Christ, MORE dumbing down...that's the last thing the UK needs. I had 18 year-olds at my last job ask me what the BERLIN WALL was. Morons.

There are and long have been plenty of 18 year olds here in the US that wouldn't know.

Mention the airlift around here and you get a lot of blank stares.

That's pretty unbelievable since it's part of the standard curriculum, at least in this state. They actually taught history in my school. And science. And math. I don't know these idiot Americans everyone keeps bringing up as examples.

You mean to tell me that your average American high school grad can tell me something about the Airlift? I actually know very few Americans of any age that would know what that was. Maybe I've been hanging with the wrong crowds...

As for the Berlin Wall. Well, let's just say that I've met enough Americans that didn't exactly know where to find Germany on the map to begin with. And most are pretty stunned when they learn that the Berlin Wall enclosed all of West Berlin rather than just separated East Berlin from West Berlin. They're equally stunned when they learn that West Berlin was an island - so to speak - in the middle of East Germany. Which plays perfectly into the complete ignorance about the Airlift.

wasn't the name of the airport tempelhof or something like that which the airlift flew in and out of (lots of flights based out of rhein main by frankfurt btw).

You got it! Tempelhof it was. I would expect you to know about one of the greatest accomplishments of the US armed forces.

[homesick_american 1]

You mean to tell me that your average American high school grad can tell me something about the Airlift? I actually know very few Americans of any age that would know what that was. Maybe I've been hanging with the wrong crowds...

Maybe. I don't believe that I'm just randomly and coincidentally meeting people of such superior intellect!

As for the Berlin Wall. Well, let's just say that I've met enough Americans that didn't exactly know where to find Germany on the map to begin with. And most are pretty stunned when they learn that the Berlin Wall enclosed all of West Berlin rather than just separated East Berlin from West Berlin. They're equally stunned when they learn that West Berlin was an island - so to speak - in the middle of East Germany. Which plays along perfectly with the complete ignorance about the Airlift.

Bizarre; I've never met an American high school graduate who DIDN'T know that.

[L_n_O 3]

i MET a 30 yr old about a 3 or 4 years ago that didn't have a clue who Gandhi was...

I just didn't know what to say.........

[SteveLaura 0]

I'm 37 and went to a UK state school. Let's look at this carefully:

ENGLISH: One Shakespeare play, Thomas Hardy & George Eliot - no difference from my old school days. The Contemporary authors have changed, obviously, but we still studied modern texts back then too, you know.

The 'influence of the Bible, Arthurian legends and Greek mythology' weren't taught in my school then either. To whom do I send my complaint?

HISTORY: The two World Wars remain statutory (as they were in my day), and yet Churchill and Hitler won't be taught? Explain that to me.

GEOGRAPHY: Learn to read maps and know how natural landscapes were formed - yep, no difference there. Adding climate change is fine, in my opinion. Youth, stereotypically, are interested more in the environment. You know, give 'em something to get their teeth into.

MATHS: Algebra is still there, I note with doom.

SCIENCE: Added are stem cells and nuclear energy. Rather good things to teach the young, I would suggest. Or does the UK want to be left behind in the newer technologies?

LANGUAGES: Added are 'economically useful' languages. Again, why complain about that? Similarly, I would be interested to read arguments against teaching 'intercultural understanding'.

COOKERY: These are optional. Same as. Teaching 'simple, healthy meals with fresh ingredients'. Oh, the horror!

ECONOMIC WELL-BEING: OK, this was covered in what I remember as being called Social Studies in my day. Managing your money, planning a pension, learning about interest. Check.

PE: Team sports to stay! Oh, how the Daily Mail must have wept! They couldn't wheel out their "Political Correctness Gone Mad" banner headline again! But, it seems, they tried anyway...

Edited July 16, 2007 by SteveLaura

[Saddle Bronc 124]

But Urdu; the language is spoken as native by 2.5% of the world's population (11% in Pakistan, about 9% in India***, and about 1% in Bangladesh; outside the Sub-continent, you can measure millages at best).

***Significantly inflated from actual figures, as it is included as "official language" in Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka where the vast majority of resident Muslims speak Telugu and Kannada respectively.

[SteveLaura 0]

With respect to your greater knowledge of the language, I looked up Urdu in Wikipedia:

Urdu is spoken in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, UAE, Saudi-Arabia, Mauritius, Germany, USA, Iran, Afganistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Maledives, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, South Africa, Oman, Canada, Fiji, Kenya, Libya, Malawi, Botswana and United Kingdom. There are between 60 and 80 million native speakers of standard Urdu (Khari Boli). Overall, besides the more than 160 million who speak Urdu in Pakistan, there is a considerable Indian population who communicate in Urdu every day. According to the SIL Ethnologue (1999 data), Hindi/Urdu is the fifth most spoken language in the world. According to Comrie (1998), Hindi-Urdu is the second most spoken language in the world, with 330 million native speakers, after Mandarin and possibly English. Because of Urdu's similarity to Hindi, speakers of the two languages can usually understand one another, if both sides refrain from using specialized vocabulary. Indeed, linguists sometimes count them as being part of the same language diasystem. However, Urdu and Hindi are socio-politically different, and people who self-describe as being speakers of Hindi would question their being counted as native speakers of Urdu, and vice-versa.

The inclusion of Urdu may be PC, arguably. But it may also be economically advantageous also.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

of course this makes perfect sense - the holocaust was so long ago now that it doesnt really matter that kids dont know about it, and MLK and Churchill were only a couple of guys who did a few good things years ago. Yes I agree lets forget everything and teach our kids healthy eating instead. After all, it will take 6 years of education to work out that 4 donuts a day will increase your weight.

The holocaust? Oh no need to worry about that it was years ago and I daresay no one remembers it now anyway.

Please tell me you are kidding ... I am sure thousands of people who are still alive with serial numbers tattooed in their forearms remember the holocaust, along with those who never saw their families again. Compassion people!

As per curricular changes goes... don't have enough information on the UK K-12 system to actually make an informed commentary, so I won't

Peace, L. (who does remember the holocaust, and Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Pearl Harbor, Rwanda, Vietnam, Allende's assassination in Chile, etc., etc., etc.)

[SteveLaura 0]

of course this makes perfect sense - the holocaust was so long ago now that it doesnt really matter that kids dont know about it, and MLK and Churchill were only a couple of guys who did a few good things years ago. Yes I agree lets forget everything and teach our kids healthy eating instead. After all, it will take 6 years of education to work out that 4 donuts a day will increase your weight.

The holocaust? Oh no need to worry about that it was years ago and I daresay no one remembers it now anyway.

Please tell me you are kidding ... I am sure thousands of people who are still alive with serial numbers tattooed in their forearms remember the holocaust, along with those who never saw their families again. Compassion people!

As per curricular changes goes... don't have enough information on the UK K-12 system to actually make an informed commentary, so I won't

Peace, L. (who does remember the holocaust, and Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Pearl Harbor, Rwanda, Vietnam, Allende's assassination in Chile, etc., etc., etc.)

I read it as sarcasm.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I read it as sarcasm.

Good idea my friend.... as the other option is way to out there

thanks for the breath of fresh air!

L.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

With respect to your greater knowledge of the language, I looked up Urdu in Wikipedia:

Urdu is spoken in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, UAE, Saudi-Arabia, Mauritius, Germany, USA, Iran, Afganistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Maledives, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, South Africa, Oman, Canada, Fiji, Kenya, Libya, Malawi, Botswana and United Kingdom. There are between 60 and 80 million native speakers of standard Urdu (Khari Boli). Overall, besides the more than 160 million who speak Urdu in Pakistan, there is a considerable Indian population who communicate in Urdu every day. According to the SIL Ethnologue (1999 data), Hindi/Urdu is the fifth most spoken language in the world. According to Comrie (1998), Hindi-Urdu is the second most spoken language in the world, with 330 million native speakers, after Mandarin and possibly English. Because of Urdu's similarity to Hindi, speakers of the two languages can usually understand one another, if both sides refrain from using specialized vocabulary. Indeed, linguists sometimes count them as being part of the same language diasystem. However, Urdu and Hindi are socio-politically different, and people who self-describe as being speakers of Hindi would question their being counted as native speakers of Urdu, and vice-versa.

The inclusion of Urdu may be PC, arguably. But it may also be economically advantageous also.

Economically advantageous? Not really. The vast majority of Urdu-native speakers in India are in three states (UP, Bihar and MP) which have never ranked far above the bottom in development rankings; far more advantageous to learn Gujarati (language of India's most prosperous state per-capita), Marathi (language of Mumbai) or Punjabi (in Pakistan, largest language group--also language of an Indian state second to Gujarat in prosperity) than Urdu.

The article's methodology is questionable as it very obviously those that speak multiple languages INCLUDING URDU (to get the total of 160 million speakers in Pakistan, you have to include nearly the entire nation--you may have also seen the number of "16 million NATIVE speakers" mentioned for Pakistan, which is closer to accurate); by that methodology, I can be counted as a French language speaker (I can speak it fluently enough to get around in Lyon or Jonquiere--where one would be much less likely to find speakers of any other language than in metropolitan Paris or Montreal).

[homesick_american 1]

of course this makes perfect sense - the holocaust was so long ago now that it doesnt really matter that kids dont know about it, and MLK and Churchill were only a couple of guys who did a few good things years ago. Yes I agree lets forget everything and teach our kids healthy eating instead. After all, it will take 6 years of education to work out that 4 donuts a day will increase your weight.

The holocaust? Oh no need to worry about that it was years ago and I daresay no one remembers it now anyway.

Please tell me you are kidding ... I am sure thousands of people who are still alive with serial numbers tattooed in their forearms remember the holocaust, along with those who never saw their families again. Compassion people!

As per curricular changes goes... don't have enough information on the UK K-12 system to actually make an informed commentary, so I won't

Peace, L. (who does remember the holocaust, and Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Pearl Harbor, Rwanda, Vietnam, Allende's assassination in Chile, etc., etc., etc.)

Britty was joking.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I didn't see them mention which year they were planning to do this in. As far as I remember things haven't changed - in that you choose which subjects you're going to be examined on in Year 10 - if its option subjects that probably isn't the point. Aside from that the curriculum seems to be rather arbitrary. I was taught Spanish in Years 7-9, but the school offered French also.

BTW - I did one year of history in high-school (mainly WW1), the mandatory alternative being Geography. Again noone in years 7-9 got to explicitly choose one or the other - it was apparently assigned arbitrarily.

[britty 1]

of course this makes perfect sense - the holocaust was so long ago now that it doesnt really matter that kids dont know about it, and MLK and Churchill were only a couple of guys who did a few good things years ago. Yes I agree lets forget everything and teach our kids healthy eating instead. After all, it will take 6 years of education to work out that 4 donuts a day will increase your weight.

The holocaust? Oh no need to worry about that it was years ago and I daresay no one remembers it now anyway.

Please tell me you are kidding ... I am sure thousands of people who are still alive with serial numbers tattooed in their forearms remember the holocaust, along with those who never saw their families again. Compassion people!

As per curricular changes goes... don't have enough information on the UK K-12 system to actually make an informed commentary, so I won't

Peace, L. (who does remember the holocaust, and Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Pearl Harbor, Rwanda, Vietnam, Allende's assassination in Chile, etc., etc., etc.)

Britty was joking.

thank you. Yes of course my comments were sarcastic. I am horrified that the so called education system dare take the holocaust off the curriculum. To be replaced by healthy eating is just an insult to the memory of all those who died at the hands of hitler and his monsters, and those who lived through the atrocities. The UK education system should be thoroughly ashamed of itself. History is far more important than the benefits of a lettuce leaf or a secondary language.